This is true about almost every topic on almost every forum on this board. If this is going to be the new criterion for being able to start a thread then almost no new threads are going to be created. I guess we can just shut down the TES forums altogether because we've already discussed every topic that can be discussed about those games, eh? We should probably shut down the Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas forums too, because we've discussed pretty much everything about those games at least once. We'll only open these forums up again when somebody thinks of a topic that has never, ever, ever been discussed before.

^ Can you help me with this RP idea?

*ducks the hail of irradiated gunfire*

I understand your sentiment, I guess my view differs

I think it is down to Bethesda to decide what the game is supposed to be and I don't doubt that they have debated the matter as they developed the game.

Who knows, maybe they included a toggle already, we don't know, do we.

Written dialogue would often have a 'more' item, so this will be the same.

All will be clear in 100 days or so.

Because Bethesda is "Drama before details". Voiced protagonist is more "wow", easier to digest for the masses of simpletons that have to be fed stories instead of being part of them.

You are absolutely correct. I agree with everything in you opening post. Btw, welcome to the forums - here is your fishy stick:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General:Fishy_Stick

The plain truth is there is nothing to be done about it at this point. This feature worries me the most and is the main reason I haven't pre-ordered the game, the voiced protagonist and the dialogue wheel.

I am also a dialogue wheel 'hater' and will be totally surprised if Bethesda does something revolutionary with it. I am not sure what Mr. Howard means by dynamic dialogue?

Why haven't we heard much at all about the female protagonist? Seems Brian T. Delaney is everywhere doing interviews, etc. His male protagonist character is in all of the promo material. Courtney Taylor/female protagonist is nowhere to be seen, concerning Fallout 4. We have only seen a few seconds of her in the E3 demo. Come on, Bethesda show the women folk a little attention. Please?

re: why the mini-dialogue bits in the dialogue wheel ("I hate that it doesn't show the full dialogue")

As I said in another thread:

This has nothing to do with voiced/unvoiced, of course. Just the 4-choice dialogue wheel and dialogue choice "summaries".

Good sir, I think you drops your monicle! Do be careful next time, artfully sloppy of a elite person such as you.

Kiralyn that's an interesting take on things but if it is such a fantastic new feature why aren't they showing it off more? I'd think they would. Because they haven't shown the new feature, it's almost seems like they are embarrassed about it, and it's become an 'elephant in the room'. That's why people keep making topics about it. People are most afraid of things they don't understand.

Dunno. This is just a guess based on what other people have said about the dialogue system, might not even work that way.

And while some of the complaining might be due to lack of info, you know that the "any feature I don't agree with Breaks My Immersion" crowd and the uber-roleplayers ("How dare Skyrim make me the dragonborn! That interferes with my Crippled Dwarf-ghost Raised-by-feral-skeevers RP!" ) would be complaining about the voicing regardless.

edit: if you think about it, Voiced Dialogue and Short Dialogue Blurbs are two different topics. They could each exist without the other (i.e, we could still have voice with an FO3-style dialogue window, and we could have no voice with the new short dialogue summaries.)

Because they kinda unavoidable have to spoil story to show it off? Plus honestly it rarely makes good public material have two peeps standing around talking. So I doubt "embarrasment" is the reason we seen little of the dialogue.

I'll give you the spoiler part but there has to be some generic dialogue they could use to show off this new dynamic dialogue feature? Say, show us how it works with trading or bartering? The also haven't shown us how it works in first person mode. I would like them to give us a little more information, even it's saying, "It works just the same as Bioware's system."

What major RPG releases of the late 90s and early 2000s had voiced protagonists? KOTOR? Baldur's Gate? Neverwinter Nights? Morrowind? None of them did. I would argue it's still not an industry standard, but I do think it should be, but it needs to be done right. Having just one voice for the protagonist is limiting. I can't fault Bethesda for trying at least. I'm hoping it's done well in Fallout 4, but in the future if they continue this, they need at least a few different choices to pick from. We'll see though. I'm not up in arms about this like some others, but if it's not done well, it could be very disappointing.

Interestingly, I was listening to an interview with Doug Cockle, the english language voice actor for Geralt of Rivia.

The Witcher 3 is a huge game, with plenty of dialogue.

Doug shared that his protagonist dialogue was 12,500 lines (before DLC).

If Fallout 4 protagonist dialogue is going to give (slightly) more dialogue than The Witcher 3,

then nothing is being dumbed down as far as 'talking' goes.

Number of lines has nearly no representative value of the overall quality. It's just a number the marketing people use to delude the gullible people.

Nor is adding a VA representative of a loss in quality.

Don't forget how much he talks to himself when tracking something or looking around an area. That must account for a fair few lines.

I'm fine with the voiced dialogue, but it would seem to be a really simple thing to option out. Now many have said that Bethesda won't give that option because they want people to experience it, so how about this for an idea:

The option to mute character's dialogue (or perhaps even revert to old system) only appears around level 5 or something. On subsequent play throughs, it's available from the start. That way everyone has enough time to see if they can get used to it, actually prefer it after all, or if it really is a problem for them.

(sigh)

we are really mixing different issues, let's unpick and separate them:

1. Dialogue wheel - 4 choices (one of which may be 'more') vs. a list of choices (one of which may be 'more'), may reduce choice quantity
2. Voiced protagonist may reduce quantity of dialogue
3. Voiced protagonist may reduce quality of dialogue vs. player's internal 'reading' of text dialogue.

None of them are intrinsically a problem, it's down to how they are implemented.

1. Dialogue wheel: Both formats have 'more', so complexity/choices is a scripting decision.
2. Voiced protagonist quantity: 13,000 is clearly plenty, so quantity is not reduced. FO3 had 40,000 lines for all characters.
3. Voiced protagonist quality: They have fine voice actors, so the only issue here is vs. internal dialogue.

In short, the issue is:

• NOT - 'voiced dialogue svcks', because it is able to be produced with as much quality and quantity as text dialogue.
• IT MAY BE 'voiced dialogue svcks, because it is different to what I am used to and I prefer inner dialogue for the purposes of self-insertion.'

It's not bad, it's just different, and is a style change for self-inserters that may be too much to handle.

So before we have another thread grumbling about this,

let's focus on exactly what is being complained about, the quality of the game or a preference of an individual gamer.

Can someone explain to me why this new dynamic 2 way conversation is immersion breaking?

I was always annoyed with FO3 and NV because I couldn't talk. The game oft felt like I was a mute. As if the NPC was talking to a brick wall. I am very excited to have a voiced protagonist. Fallout has always been very story driven/orientated and the voiced protagonist will only compliment the story. I wish I could have heard myself tell Caesar to go [censored] himself on my first play though.

Also, people who complain about not being able to choose the way their voice sounds because it breaks immersion... Am I right in saying that you didn't exactly CHOOSE the way you sound in real life?

Our character has a deep backstory and a rich plethora of dialogue options. You all sound like conservatives who will see the light as soon as you see how well the system will play. The Witcher series is one of the best game series' i have had the pleasure of indulging many hours into and the voice of Geralt always immersed me more than if I had no voice and could customize my characters face.

Stop complaining until you've played the game, because I guarantee the majority of you will lick this game in the rear end hole a day after you buy it.

Since when is "four" considered "rich"?

As for the rest, if you felt mute, RP isn't for you. And I suggest reading a few books.

Sorry, I didn't mean in one instance, I mean 13,000 sentences is a massive amount.



I studied classics and literature and University, thanks. I've read enough literature to last me many lifetimes, yet, I am always reading. I feel like I didn't make myself clear in what I meant. In previous games you ARE mute. You cannot talk. Role-playing is a great love of mine, I enjoy it, but sometimes when I have a conversation with an NPC I would like to ACTUALLY talk to them. In reference to your "reading" remark, when I read a novel, two characters are having a conversation, I am not in direct control of one of them, am I? In the game's case I am in direct control. But to be honest I think it's more of a deliverance issue than a lack of voice, I never felt mute in Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind or Oblivion, but in the Fallout games I have always had the urge to speak, no idea why, so I digress. I just think the voiced protagonist will be a great feature.

However, I do look forward to some UI mods, I hate the look of the 4 choice wheel.

Alas, this is all subjective, some people will love the new system, some people will hate it, heck, I even might grow to hate it when I play the game. I just hate seeing so much negativity surrounding a feature people haven't even used themselves yet. I hate watching tennis and I used to think it would be awful to play, yet its one of my favorite sports to take part in despite still hating to watch it. So I think people should wait to play before they cast judgement.

Actually many RPG with that kind of UI has more then four dialogue option, accessible by sub menus, so honestly the only thing one can accuse it of is possibly feeling clunky compare to just a list.

It's like saying you hate the taste of eggs and then joining an egg forum to hate on the taste of eggs, despite having never consumed an egg.

Still no reason for those who object to hold back their opinions on the matter. While it's too late to save this game from a voiced protagonist, the next one is still up for grabs and the reaction this one gets will determine the fate of the next. So by all means, have your say on the issue. Don't let forum posters who don't have to click open every thread intimidate you into keeping silent if you have something to say (pro or con) on the issue.

Is it? How come you can't tell the difference between "I talk to them" and "some character I control talks to them"? Not only you don't know what is the protagonist going to say, but you can't control the tone, like you do if you hear the voice just "in your head". When the character is voiced, all you get is being stuck with sort of an all-neutral--bland-good-guy/gal (inb4 someone says the king of liars Todd Howard said something about 10 personalities). And the protagonist talking without any player input is another thing.

It's a more passive experience. You aren't a part of the story any more, you just influence it. The limited phrase dialogue cross is a perfect example of it.

Wrong. It was not Todd Howard. The Voice Actor himself did say so. And I'm sure the Voice actor did know what he had recorded.