Yeah I abandoned my first attempt with the male... To be fair I also abandoned my first play through with the female but the third attempt is going better, largely because I went with a waking up out of cryo with no memory back story and went off in a random direction, never visited Sanctuary. So far it's much more enjoyable playing as a half mad loner amnesiac with unexplainable combat, hacking and lock picking skills.. Still the few times I relent and allow myself to engage in conversation it still annoys me at least half the time but most of the side quest and radiant stuff is short enough not to bother me too much. At least it feels like she is my character playing out my story not someone elses.... mostly.

Look at all the so callled AAA titles. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of them suddenly have voiced protagonists? Could it be there's some market research behind it?

It's true for what they call RPG. It's obviously not true for the niche products, as I pointed out in the second post.

It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would, except that every conversation feels like I'm a third party looking in at a conversation and it doesn't feel like it's ME talking.

I do like the grunts and comments when you crack a safe etc., they could've easily settled for a few PC comments here and there.

The sad thing is, I don't feel that the voiced PC took away resources from other things in Fo4. The game is full of content, things to do, attention to detail, and I feel they gave an sufficient amount of lines to the actors/game. However, I feel the writers totally botched the opportunity to provide the actors (and gamers for that matter) with compelling and distinct branching conversations. It's like they figured they could hone it in and expect the actors to do the leg work. However, when I see some of the dialogue options laid out with the one mod, I think "WTF BGS? How can anyone do magic with those lines?"

And yes, they also botched the paraphrasing in the game. Paraphrasing can and should be done (TW3 did a wonderful job with it), but BGS just dropped the ball. In this case, please do blame/shoot the messenger.

I'm sorry, I thought I was on topic, as per the thread title.

Yes New Vegas was better for dialogue that matters. That's Osidian's style.

Bethesda's style is that dialogue doesn't make a lot of difference in most cases. Your choice is whether to follow up on it.

Granted, there were a few different skill checksin FO3, but I don't think all that many. And I don't remember being locked out of anything for being rude to someone. The most I remember was bing able to skip 3 dog's mission which is not a great example of choice done well.

Is one design better than the other? That's a different debate, and personally I like more meaningful dialogue. But I do understand that it's not how Bethesda works. And hence, I wasn't massively disappointed.

I suppose it's possible, but it could just as easily be developers making assumptions, or deciding that they want to have more control over the story Most likely it boils down to copying someone else for whatever reason (something that is as old as game making). The point is there is no essential requirement being placed on developers to include voiced protagonists by the market even if market research points in the direction, Bethesda are free to do what they think is right, just as they continue not to bow to (much greater and more vocal) pressure to add multiplayer to their games. The game sold incredibly well even though it doesn't have that multiplayer functionality that many would argue the market now demands and it would of sold with a silent protagonist too.

Having a voiced protagonist is my absolute favorite thing about Fallout 4 over the other games. Best choice Bethesda has made in years.

Would you say the dull dialog system that came with the voiced protagonist was a good thing as well?

Dull is not a word I would use to describe it. That is how I would describe Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. I would describe Fallout 4 as engaging.

Yes, there are less real choices in the dialogue itself and no science or perception checks, but we don't live in a perfect world where I always get what I want. In fact, I rarely ever get what I want... But Fallout 4 delivered.

I can't understate how much of an improvement it is to have short options as opposed to long readouts on the dialogue interface.

It is a brilliant artistic choice that improves the pace of the game and makes it easier to stay in character. If I am playing a character that is a real 'Goody Two Shoes' and always does the right thing, then I don't want to have to read through a sarcastic option that says, 'Oh, I would totally love to get shot up by mutants for you' or a mean option that says, 'I don't have time to help your hole in the ground settlement, you are probably just going to die anyways'. That kind of stuff throws you out of the character that you are in.

And then when I do play a second playthrough, if the game is like New Vegas and has everything written out on the screen, then I already know everything my sarcastic jerk character is going to say, because I had to read it when I was playing a goody two shoes character... No surprise, so why even play the game a second time when everything was shown to me the first time.

The sarcasm option is great, because it is always a surprise, it wouldn't be fun if I always read it first.

Yes, it would have been great if Bethesda had more choices in the same way it would have been great if my car had more horsepower. Doesn't mean my car isn't great for the price I payed, but it is just something I would always like more of no matter how much I got.

I will still take Fallout 4's dialogue that is totally engaging over New Vega's dialogue that is lifeless and feels like someone is just talking 'at' you and not carrying on a conversation 'with' you. Yes, New Vegas has a lot of false depth with its dead end conversation options that mostly just abruptly end things. But I don't look at having more ways of missing content to be a real improvement, and I don't think all their paper thin factions with 1 or 2 missions really means the game has more role playing ability, as still only 4 of the factions had any real meat to them.

Wow, are you actually trying to pass off this excuse of a dialog as a "different design"?

"Obsidian's style"? More like better quality rpg. You are even trying to pass of a quality difference as a "style" heh.

It's like saying "EA micro-transactions are swell because it's like EA's style".

You say "there were a few skill checks in FO3 but you don't THINK that many". Once again, someone who hasn't played the game, with an opinion. It's getting tiring.

How about I throw here the first links I can find from the wiki AGAIN. Excluding the classic speech/charisma/perk checks. I hope they are "enough" for you and most of them actually offer different ways to complete quests. FNV has even more - but oh wait - this isn't "Bethesda's style" right?

" (with low intelligence) in the 3rd you simply sacrifice a few Intelligence dependent conversation options and some skill points."

"Having a high Perception can yield dialog options with some NPCs, such as http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Moira_Brown, http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mel_(Fallout_3) and http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Machete_(character)."

High Strength can sometimes be used to intimidate others when in a conversation.

And the rest of the SPECIALs enabled options as well, cba to find them all for you.

• 50 Science to hack the RobCo production facility mainframe during the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_quests http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wasteland_Survival_Guide_(quest).
• 50 Science to reactivate the robots during the quest http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Trouble_in_Big_Town.
• 60 Science to unlock certain dialog options with http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Weston_Lesko during the quest http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Those!. This allows you to learn he had been using a modified form of http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Forced_Evolutionary_Virus to induce pyrosis reactions in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Giant_ant_(Fallout_3), creating http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_ant_(Fallout_3).
• 75 Science skill to disarm a http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Slave_collar.
• 75 Science to modify http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Healing_archway to fully heal the player, though this reduces their number of uses to three. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mothership_Zeta_(add-on))
• 75 Science to hack the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_base_crawler' mainframe. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Broken_Steel)
• 80 Science to deactivate the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Repulsion_device aboard the crawler. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Broken_Steel)
• 85 Science to bypass the Speech check required to convince http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/John_Henry_Eden to self destruct during the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_American_Dream.

• 25 is required to disarm or detonate http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Power_of_the_Atom.
• 30 is required to disarm hanging http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_traps#Grenade_bouquet
• 45 is required to disarm http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Terminal#Trapped_terminal
• 50 Explosives is required to train the residents of http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Town in placing a minefield during http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Trouble_in_Big_Town.
• 60 is required to disarm http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rigged_baby_carriage.
• High explosives can cause http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly to reveal that her http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly%27s_Rangers left mines to slow down the mutants during the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly%27s_Rangers_(quest).

• 30 Medicine will garner information from http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Church_(Fallout_3) in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Megaton about http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Leo%27s_Drug_Habit.
• 30 Medicine is required to properly examine the bodies of the West family for the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Ties quest in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Arefu. However, the higher the Medicine skill, the more information the examination will yield, with thresholds at 50, 75 and 90.
• 40 Medicine is required to revive http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timebomb in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Big_Town, which is the only way to get his http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lucky_8-ball.
• 50 Medicine is required to help a slave in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Mill inside http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pitt_(city), although there is no reward for doing so.
• 50 Medicine is required to convince http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vance_(Fallout_3) to deal with Arefu for bloodpacks in the Blood Ties quest.
• 60 Medicine is required to revive http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly in the Chop Shop in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Underworld, which is one of two ways to revive her and start the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly%27s_Rangers_(quest).
• 70 Medicine is required to explain handling injuries for Chapter 2 of the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wasteland_Survival_Guide_(quest).
• 30 Repair is necessary to fix the water valves in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Megaton during the unmarked quest http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Treatment.
• 35 Repair is required in the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Anchorage_Memorial before, during or after the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Wasteland_Survival_Guide_(quest)#Place_an_observer_unit_inside_a_Mirelurk_nest to fix a broken door, if he/she has the door's component. Without the component, a Repair skill of 95 is required.
• 40 Repair is needed during http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Rescue_from_Paradise to gain an option to free the children.
• 40 Repair is needed to fix a broken robot during a http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_random_encounters. If you repair it, the scavenger will give you twohttp://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Energy_cell_(Fallout_3). With a http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Speech check, you can convince him to give you 100 caps and the energy cells.
• 45 Repair is needed to disarm rigged combat shotguns.
• 60 Repair is needed to disable the turret power generator during http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Stealing_Independence.
• 75 Repair allow you to repair the elevator to the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Statesman_Hotel's roof yourself during the quest http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Reilly%27s_Rangers_(quest). Otherwise, you'll need to retrieve a fission battery.
• 85 Repair is required to disarm laser tripwire emitters in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Raven_Rock during http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/The_American_Dream.
• A Repair skill check is made when disarming microfusion cells wired to a trapped toilet. It does not specify what the minimum Repair skill is.
• After using the artillery switch in http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Takoma_Industrial a few times, it will short-circuit. Players with a 33+ Repair skill can repair the switch and continue using it.
• Downloadable content also includes Repair checks on some items, most notably http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Point_Lookout_(add-on) in the http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chinese_Intelligence_bunker; 44 required to shut off the radiation.

It's truly sad.

It works for a specific character with a specific set of skills and a set goal, it doesn't work well with Beth games where you can create entirely different characters as it pigeonholes you in a bad way to be Nate or Nora and not the character you create.

Also Link never spoke and he's been around for ages with the same general story. He doesn't need to speak nor should Bethesda protagonists...especially when giving them voice comes at the cost of dialogue choice.

Right. "Dialogue Wheel" and voice aren't the problem. How they used them, is.

Consider the costs of voice acting. With all the actors and resources involved, it doesn't come cheap. No company goes out on that limb on a hunch. There's market research behind it and it's closely related to the casual gamers the AAA titles have to catch as an audience to meet their revenue goals.

Although I have to say, I'm rather annoyed by repetitive dialogues, such as "you're with the minutemen, right?", when I visited that settlement for about the millionst time, I have to say, Beth solved the problem a little bit bettter than their competitors. In my book, it all boils down to player expectations. And it's as naive for the player to expect anything more than the dialogue wheel in a voiced game as it is to believe every PR statement made by any given company. Reality tells a different tale and if you know that narrative, you also know what you're in for when buying a particular product.

yeah that is true, ppl should not complain about voice or the dialogue wheel. The real problem is on the quest choice. Is true Fallout 4 have less choice when it come down to quest results.

At least you can be in a character though, even if you have to read (or start reading) a line that isn't what you want to say, that's pretty much the definition in fact of rp dialogue in a video game, if you don't have options that fit different character types then you can't rp those character types, its a compromise that has to be made to allow roleplaying. The alternative is simply being forced to be one character with one personality that can be slightly tweaked to be more curious or more sarcastic (though honestly I'm surprised that more people haven't pointed out that half the time the sarcastic answer isn't sarcasm at all). Yes the game is more cinematic and plays more like a tv show or movie, but there are plenty of games that do that much better. Bethesda games have always been about freedom and they are one of (if not the only) one who make games like that. Losing something unique to gain something which is repeated in a dozen other games is not a win for me.

It's not just the voiced protag, the entire dialogue system is mechanically clunky too. I have to click the guy 10 times and if I turn away I have to listen to the whole conversation again wtf?

I'd like to see one of these posts showing a response to each selected. While I agree more options are always nice. I think it would have been a bit redundant to read and hear the exact same lines.

Are you kidding - I was actually somewhat positive about the whole thing before the game was released. But when I started playing I instantly suspected what they did. After completing the game and reloading enough times to see how much "freedom" I actually had I only sadly confirmed the suspicions.

Why play a 2nd time if the character delivers the lines in the same exact way? With text dialogue you can at least envision a different tone is being said but with voice it's the exact same response.

It throws me out of character when Delaney responds in a tone and a manner that my character wouldn't. It feels like a choose your own adventure audio book with a bad speaker, not a good story that I can play out in my mind when reading the words.

Many things are clunky. At least in the PC version. Building a settlement is a major pain in the hindquarters, using mouse and keyboard. Just one example.

Duh euuuh ughgghghhhhh,

Dah it add to mah game cus I no wanna read no more skool hurty head sro moch.

Seriously if you don't like it stop playing the game and don't waste time or forum space commenting about it.

Did we play the same Fallout 4 here? There is zero improvement to the game with this crap. Not only were meaningful alternative dialog choices stripped away but so were most skill and SPECIAL checks.

The only way the new dialog system can help you stay in character is if your character is a potato.


You don't get it. You're missing the content by now not having the ability to interact with it. Used to you had multiple paths to go about doing things in Fallout games. You had good dialog to read, NPC's to talk to get the games story from. Now we have brilliant choices like HATE NEWSPAPERS.

Agreed. Also, the four dialogue choices all lead to the same conclusion with no actual variation.

No, I'm not kidding. I've played games (like the mentioned Mass Effect games) that used both a dialogue-wheel interface and a voiced protag quite well. The mechanisms themselves aren't the problem. The part where they went with only 4 max responses, and the things they actually put in those responses, are the problem. Not sure how that wasn't clear.

and this isnt worst from any other Fallout game or any other game where they will keep repeating the same line over and over when u go back to other questions???