Anyone who would say Skyrim is NOT an RPG wouldn't be worth arguing with.

As far as the range of ES games, you must be relatively new to RPGs?

The father of all PC RPGs is still the Ultima series which spanned a time-line of approximately 20 years of successful PC RPG invention, success, and domination. The very terms, "open world", "non-linear", and "seamless map" were invented by the Ultima team. I can also tell you that when I was first introduced to the ES series I felt it was a diluted and streamlined form of PC RPG because of my experience with the Ultima series.

These days however, for a modern game with modern graphics I will say Skyrim is in the lead for bringing all of the great, PC RPG elements to the table.

Where am I missing anything?

Total War allows for just as much faction progression and distinction as Skyrim allows for character progression and distinction. Beyond that, Total War embraces player agency, giving you free reign in a real sandbox world while Skyrim ostensibly offers an open world, but often leads you through linear dungeons and linear questlines. There is always a wide range of choice in Total War while Skyrim offers choice only occassionally. Total War is far more reactive as you build and break alliances, crush rival factions, massacre populations, and build better toilets. Total War also has marriage and it's far more meaningful than having a walking, talking shop keeper. Each advancement and unit it type available is an "Attribute" as far as RPG mechanics are concerned.

I submit that the difference in terms is merely semantic. The fact remains that there is just as much room for imagination in Total War, but it also offers a far greater range of recognized choice and consequence.

You don't create your 'avatar' from scratch in TW (except Multi player in Shogun II). So no, its more than just semantics. Nor does your avatar level, other than in Shogun II.

Neither do you in Skyrim. You pick from a handful of pre-created races. In Total War, I select from several pre-created factions.

No, you create from scratch, much like a tabletop game. In Total War, you don't. Your the default commander of whatever Nation you are.

Just use your imagination on how your leader looks like! Ultimate customization.

There's more to customization and RPing than just aesthetics.

NO BECAUSE SPREADSHEETS!

Just use your creativity and imagination to fill in the blanks!

You do not create from scratch in Skyrim, period. That's a fact. You can choose what your character looks like, but that's just window dressing. Your character appearance doesn't matter in the context of game mechanics. I can make someone who looks like he baked his head in an oven for 30 minutes and no one will care. The only actual character differences at creation are those based on race.

This is no different than the faction differences in Total War.

Yes, you do create from scratch in ES games. Less in Skyrim at creation, but a lot more than anything in a TW. I was talking more about previous games anyway, like my second post in this thread says. TW is not a RPG. Shogun II has some RPG mechanics, but isn't an RPG.


...Do you even know what we are talking about?

Catch my edit. I meant Skyrim, not the TES series in general.

Please explain how anything is determined beyond race selection and appearance in Skyrim's creation phase.

And race and appearance are way more customization than in any TW. In TW you choose your nation/empire. That's it. In Shogun you get to level them in a linear way. But its still not even close to an RPG. It's a real time/turn based strategy hybrid. That's it. Its where RPGs come from (old strategy board games), but it is not an RPG.

Yes. We are discussing whether TW games are RPG or not.

Hell with game mechanics, just use your imagination and creativity bro. That's all you need since you are GM, just make up everything and it'll be perfect!



Race = factions
Stormcloak/imperial = Catholicism or Heresy (at least in Medieval Total War 2)?
Perks & gear = cities and armies?

Skyrim's creation phase lasts throughout the entire game, thanks to the perk system.

That's not what you said. You said you create from scratch, which you don't. Race selection is exactly the same thing as faction selection (and there are more factions in Total War than Races in Skyrim).

The only thing you can create from scratch is character appearance, which I've already covered. So please explain, beyond races (factions) and appearance (meaningless) what do you create from scratch?

So does Total War's, thanks to the technology system.

Its not an RPG. You can role play (which only means pretending to be someone else) to a certain degree, but its not an RPG.




TW isn't an RPG, get over it. Know more about the Elder Scrolls and what an actual RPG is. Your not creating from scratch in TW, you are in ES.

Just in case you missed this,

Race = factions
Stormcloak/imperial = Catholicism or Heresy (at least in Medieval Total War 2)?
Perks & gear = cities and armies?

Plus imagination and creativity, which makes everything just perfect.

Just in case you missed. Everybody that's ever played TW knows its not an RPG. To think so makes them look like a newb that's never played an RPG, or strategy game before.

But it's like a secret, right? That's why you can't actually explain what you create from scratch. Don't want privileged information like that getting out.

THE CHARACTER. Seriously, are you daft, or what? In TW you are the default leader. There is no customization, or character creation even. Know more about TW and ES. 99.9 % of the people that play both know what they are. ES is an RPG, TW is a strategy game. One or two ill informed posters will never change that. TW will get more RPG mechanics in the future, but it will never be a full out RPG.

An RPG is what you make it. Nothing denies Skyrim of being an RPG because there isn't an incentive to wear robes. When you're role playing as a mage, you'll obviously want to wear robes.


To the OP. :clap: Well said!

You don't create a character in Skyrim, you pick a character. In Total War, I pick a faction. Just because there isn't a gender or appearance window doesn't mean there's a meaningful difference.

Even if we assume that there actually is character customization in Skyrim's character creation that does not exist in Total War, the existence of a single RPG element in Skyrim's creation system does not immediately make Skyrim an RPG where Total War is not. There are many RPGs (mostly computer ones) that start you as a preset character and offer less choice than either Skyrim or Total War. Those games are still RPGs despite having no actual character creation at all.

It has marriage system.
It has guilds that you can donate and support for rewards.
Combat is WAYYY better.
Other NPCs actually function on their own with each other through both hostility and peace.

Oh and here is the most awesome feature that even Skyrim is missing.

Your actions and status change your reputation among factions which actually change how they deal with you.

Plenty to roleplay off of!

And don't forget, you are the GM! Only your creativity and imagination is limiting the roleplay potential of TW games.

That's what it is classified as. I don't roleplay but I think I could so that tells me it is a rpg

Cheers