Message to the people who make this game:

Not everyone likes gambling!!!

I hate gambling, i dont feel thrilled, no excitement just pure fear of losing.

I never gamble with real money. Who gambles, loses. This is my principle. My rule. Even if i would, i'd go to a casino. But i never do and never will.

When i spend money, even if it is a small amount, i'd like to get what i see.

So do you see what i mean? Yeah the stupid buyable lunchboxes, thats what. They are pure gambling.

"at least one of them is guaranteed to be rare or better" Yeah that nightwear with C+3 and the 10mm pistol was as rare as radroaches. I've just bought back so many nightwears from my explorations that i could repopulate the whole wastlend with their help.

And no i wont buy the 40 pack for a price of a new pc game when there is a chance that most of it will cotain a rusty bb gun, rotten apples and some spiderweb.

Being aware that they might be empty but try to do the objectives for them = playing = fun

Being aware that they might be empty but still pay money for them = gambling = not a little bit fun

I am not a cheapass, i have principles.

I've already bought 4 mr handys you know why? Because the mr handy box contains (surprise!!!) a [censored] mr handy!

I am also not stupid or naive, this is all about the money, so lets do business!

Solution:

Keep the original lunchboxes, same price. But add lunchboxes or some special package that cost 3 to 5 times the original lunchbox but contains guaranteed legendary stuff. That is it, so simple. People will buy them like ice cream.

TLDR: For some stupd reason i thought buyable lunchboxes are less crappy than the ingame ones, but i was sooo wrong. You should add more expensive packages that contain guaranteed good stuff

Did you literally create an account just to post this comment? Lol!

Probably so that he wouldn't get reprimanded on his main account for posting a comment that is simply for the purpose of trolling/flaming.

Mods are probably too busy or unable to track by IP and find his real account.

IMO a higher tier lunchbox without 500 caps would be a step up. As it stands I wouldn't buy any with a chance of a non reward.

It's like buying produce without being able to look touch or smell. You might just end up with stuff you can't even use. And I don't mean low tier weapons or armor, like 500 caps when you have 200,000 of them already.

I just said this in another thread:

"

I think the perception to the role of the lunchboxes is way off target. I didn't spend a penny on this game because I immediately realized that one of the few ultimate goals are to gather all weapons, armor and dwellers. By buying lunchboxes I'd be paying Bethesda to beat the game for me. Secondly, I also noticed that lunchboxes contain items that help when in a pinch. Resources, caps, stims, et al... these are all in the lunchboxes as well and opening them all at the same time would literally waste a good lunchbox. So I held them for when deathclaws attacked so I could get back on my feet immediately. I think that is the proper use of them, and it's got a chance to get a rare/legendary item as well. Bethesda never told anyone to gamble, yet we automatically assume that is what they wanted with the lunchboxes.

Personally, before removing the game because of severe disappointment, I could get about 3-5 lunchboxes per day just by completing objectives so I don't think purchasing them is necessary at all. Just my few thoughts."

Then you live in a fantasy land where businesses don't seek to turn a profit on their investments.

I also reject the notion that they are emergency supplies. 500 caps, 1 stimpack and 1 rad away are not going to get you out of a pinch. You'd need significant amounts of lunchboxes to alleviate situations where multiple 1k cap revives are necessary. Furthermore the potential high level weapons in lunchboxes are better suited to get before an attack.

If they didn't want us to gamble they would have just made an in game store where you could buy what you want with real world money.

If the purpose wasn't gambling then they've got some of the worst designers in the world. When a system assigns random rewards that can give you repeats of equipment below your needs or irrelevant based on your current equipment it is not a system geared towards anything but gambling.

You're practicing willful ignorance if you identify lunchboxes as anything but gambling. You may have started using them in a different manner than the norm but to say that was their intended use is beyond a stretch.

I don't think purchasing them is necessary either.

I'd like to buy some just to support this game because I like it and want it to flourish.

But I'm not going to put my cash towards something that will potentially give me no value. That's not the kind of game I want to support.

IMO caps can stay in the free lunchboxes. Paid ones though I'd like to actually get some tangible value for forking over money. Especially since the exchange is a one time transaction and asset.

A fallout dlc you buy once and can play as many times as you wish for as many characters as you want.

A lunchbox is a one time use item, not even transferable to any of your other vaults, or other playthroughs. If you're a beginning player you might just screw up and put your vault in a state that is untenable after spending cash on boxes. My girlfriend did such a thing.

Got up to 70 dwellers without exploring so she had no weapons other than lunchbox items on 10-15 of them.

Deathclaws arrive and her vault gets wiped out.

Deathclaws won't stop arriving after they start so the situation is untenable, she'll never recover. So what of the money she spent? Gone forever.

IF she'd spent her money on fallout DLC even if her game crashed and corrupted all her save files she'd still be able to start a new character and play the DLC.

Can you see the lack of value here in buying lunchboxes? They aren't worth the bits they inhabit in their current form.

Don't buy lunchboxes then, completely viable to play the game without doing so.

I don't buy lunchboxes and I got 4 legendary characters right now.

My sentiment exactly. This isn't pay to win, so you know exactly what you are paying for: 3 resources to help your vault and a chance for gear. Yet people see "a definite rare item" and they think that is Bethesda telling them that they are paying to gamble. No, you are paying to gamble but the product they are selling has other uses. It's like alcohol; you can drink to get drunk and risk losing out on life because you can't remember it the next day, or you can use it to lighten the mood and have a safe but fun evening with friends. But just because you got drunk and ran over someone while drunk doesn't mean the alcohol salesman meant for you to use it that way.

Please explain then how 500 caps is a "rare item"

I have several sets of rare items in the form of tens of thousands of caps.

For the record I don't buy lunchboxes either because they aren't necessary to "win".

But I do also see that games like this aren't developed without work going into them which costs money. So without money being paid to these kind of ventures they won't be made, or continued.

But the barrier to entry for some people's money is having a decent value for what it being sold.

Reusable DLC is worth my $20-$40.

Lunchboxes that are basically disposable tissues aren't, and certainly aren't for many other people.

So what is the problem with asking for something of lasting value for money?

It isn't a huge barrier of time and effort to make lunchboxes worthy of spending money on. Just willingness on Bethesda's part.

I'm saying I want to give Bethesda my money because they make things that I like. But I'm not going to just give it to them without getting something in return. Lunchboxes in comparison to their past offerings are not a direction I'd want to encourage by spending money.

Even if you don't want to spend money I don't see why you'd have a problem with people who do wanting to get value out of their purchase. We don't effect you.

You do though. When people like you want to spend money on foolish things this is what happens. Look at any boycott in history and you'll see that the lack of money is what caused the ultimate change but while people are willing to dump money into this game it won't change.


That said, I agree with you about buying dlc. If they had the game free but if you paid $10 you'd get tons of bonus content then that would be worth the money. But as of right now anytime you get any item in a lunchbox you haven't received yet, all that had happened is taken you further to the end of the game.


In other words you and I agree that the in game purchases need to add content, not progress you further not leave you short changed.

That's an interesting take on it.

I guess I don't really view it as progressing towards the end of the game.

It's really arbitrary what the end of the game is. But the boxes do have some things that are content: The legendary characters and legendary armor that as of yet hasn't been obtainable from exploring.

I suppose you could view the weapons as progress since they are obtainable through exploring. The caps, stimpacks and rad aways as well.

I don't really look at it as progress boxes but there's nothing wrong with that way of thinking.

Yea it's one of the few goals of the game, to collect all gear/dwellers. The others being to max all dwellers in special and level, complete building your vault, and keep dwellers happy by collecting sufficient resources. So technically any caps and resources you get also help with achieving two other goals, but I get what you mean about not seeing it that way. Chances are most players that pay still won't get all gear unlocked so it technically shouldn't reduce the gameplay value.


I wrote this long post about this I think they need to add to make the game better (or remove) and I did mention in app purchasing needs review but with changes to the game they could afford to give you a guaranteed weapon each lunchbox without it hiring the game.


If you'd like to read it the link is below. I'll warn you it is long and I just realized copying it from a word messed with the numbering of my points but the content is there. I'd appreciate any criticism on any part of it (feel free to only read parts of it).


http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1534394-improvements-to-fos-forward-looking-to-fos-2/

I spent 5 dollars for 5 Mr handys, that's what the game is worth to me.

There's lots of people out there like me who do the same.

There's also lots of people out there who don't pay anything into the game.


There's also a decent amount of people who have spent more than 40 dollars and still counting on this game.

In the end it all balances out. I don't think it took much development time for Bethesda with this game.


And on top of the fallout and elder scrolls games Bethesda develops, they also collect money from the dooms, quakes, dishonoured and such of games they don't spend time on.

It's not like this is an Indy developer that had a team of 20 spend a year worth of work into the game and are relying on the revenue to pay their bills.


There's a reason they gave it out for free, they're banking on the extra cash that comes in from the obsessive compulsive gamers who have their parents pay their phone bill to spend hundreds of dollars on lunch boxes so that they can be ahead of their school friend's vaults.


Throw them a couple bucks for some Mr handys if you want to support the developer and clear your conscience, but don't complain that they force people to gamble. No one is sticking a gun to your head and telling you to buy lunchboxes. Plenty of people are playing successfully without doing so.

Now that i've been reading earlier posts in this forum, i've noticed that i actually have not said anything new, just put some more wood into the already burning fire

Sorry if it seemed to be some brainless ranting, but i had a bad day, and for some reason i could not log on to my old account so i had to create a new one, and that pised me off even more

I am usually more constructive than that.

But i calmed down.

Seems that if people want to play this game successfully, they have to level up their patience first. Well, it is a good thing, sort of...

Wont buy lunchboxes again, and i also told my friends that they should not, just use google for tips or check here and other forums.

Also who say that things wont change while people buy the undependable boxes are not entirely right. That is why i said, keep them, but add new more expensive but guaranteed good ones. Win-win.

(and i attract trolls, i have that face. but i never feed them)

Best.quote.ever.

Bethesda is laughing their asses off at the people who spent money on this game, you know why? This game has absolutely no content. The only thing you do iso micro manage dwellers and play a lottery to find items that mean nothing. A vault with 3o dwellers plays exactly the same as a vault with 200 but with less bull crap, so why bother.

My thoughts exactly. It needs more features to be added and also restrictions. I really hate training rooms. No dweller should ever have 10 in all stats, but you don't get one like that, you make 200 exactly the same. That's one restriction.


Another feature could be varying types of raids. I added these into my own thread... You can read it all here: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1534394-improvements-to-fos-forward-looking-to-fos-2/

I already suggested similar Premium Lunchbox. It will have guranteed legendary items and no bull****. But it will be expensive, 5 to 10 bucks a pop. I am willing to spend real money on game to buy premium items at honest price. But I hate gambling like current cheap Lunchbox.

.

Why not just give you the amount of lunchboxes you purchased if you start over? And throw in better items on purchased one?

Also I dont buy them either.

On the contrary. It's pretty sizable by my count.

There are 18 room types. All 3d rendered so they had to be modeled.

Each has 3 different versions based on size.

And then a further 3 permutations based on upgrade level.

That's 162+ 2(elevator and door) different rooms that had to be modeled and created.

Not to mention the pathing for each of them is different.

It looks like a lot of work to me. And that's just the rooms.

I think you're taking simplicity for granted and assuming simplicity = effort. It doesn't. I'd estimate that payroll costs probably came to around 200k assuming average market level compensation.

And no, no one is holding a gun to my head but on the other hand I also don't like this direction of disposable offerings. It is junk in comparison to what has been offered before and similar offers from other companies.

Mass effect 3 had a similar random loot purchasing option. Actually it's nearly identical to this one. The only difference being that the loot you got from it was persistent. It didn't go away when you started a new game. There isn't anything stopping Bethesda from making the lunchboxes useful in the same way beyond a willingness to do so. It's not like asking kleenex to make ultra reusable tissues.

Bethesda up til this point has made good content and demanded a price for it. And that's fine by me. But this system is like a shady shells game. It's slightly disappointing.

So yah I'm going to speak up about it. Even if you're content to just let sheeple spend their cash I'm not content to be silent and hope this practice doesn't bleed into AAA games. Because it already has. Mortal Kombat sold disposable DLC to make finishers easier. Hopefully fallout 4 doesn't have a ".99 cents to raise a special stat for this one playthrough" option.

Blah blah slippery slope and all that. Cue the "That's not gonna happen you paranoid idiot!"

That's what we said about day one DLC too and guess what?

Bethesda doesn't have a spotless record for bad business practice or charging for little content.

Remember the horse armour 'dlc' for oblivion? It had less content than the lunchboxes of fallout shelter, costs 5 dollars brand new and gave 2 sets of horse armour that did nothing but look Cool.

Or how about them charging money for user made mods for skyrim, which didn't last long cus it was such bad business practice.


And now we got Bethesda.net coming. Which I almost guarantee is gonna be a drm system like uplay for ubisoft, or battlenet for blizzard.


This game is literally free, and they rely on dumb school children to make a killing. If they haven't already, it will take them no time to get their cost back from this game on microtransactions. Then it's all gravy from there.


I've also developed games myself, more complex than fallout shelter, just myself, doing graphic designs and all the programming on my spare time.


With the resources Bethesda has,this game is a pittance.


And I am quite against microtransactions myself, which is why I don't buy lunch boxes. It's not like this is an online game that gives lunch box buyers an unfair advantage.


You don't like it, don't buy lunch boxes, it's really that simple.

And I don't.

But I'm not content to sit and say nothing about it either.

I'd hate for them to think no one has noticed the lack of value.

If no one calls them out on it like the whole mod debacle they'll just continue.

That whole fiasco only ended because of the monumental hatred it produced.

Do I think lunch boxes are as big a deal? No.

But they're not a good deal either. And so I type.

Never once spent a dime on this game; never will. I had a friend who spent like 20 bucks on this game when it came out on iOS and he got a few good weapons from it, but then the update came and brought with it Deathclaws, and his vault got wiped. So, what did your 20 bucks get yeah, huh? NOTHING!

But honestly, it's no one's fault but your own. Don't blame Bethesda. They're just copying a proven business model: give your market a game for free, and the impatient ones will start spending money buying "content".

Well, yes it was exactly me who pushed that button to buy that lunchbox pack, and i also blame myself mostly for being silly. for not assuming that the content i was paying for is actually just "content" and not CONTENT.

My main mistake was that i had the idea that the buyable boxes somehow compensate the crappy in-game obtainable ones, like: hey our free boxes might svck but if you pay you get guaranteed good ones.

For excuse, i have to tell that this was the first time i have ever payed for anything on a phone.

And i dont blame them for making paying contet, i blame them for making it like it is: gambling.

Well, here is the backstory, after my first vault turned into a morgue when molerats came, i've googled some tips and realised that i need lots and lots of rare and legendary stuffs and high stats dwellers to survive later. Also figured out that i should get decent beginning gear to send one or two people outside immediately to gather stuff because boxes are crap.

But only after the 10th deleted vault could i start with one guy high enough stats dweller and good enough gun to go out and also have a gun to defend home. Still no legendary people though. It was fine at the beginning but after my 10th exploration reached the 60hours event and still didnt find any really good stuff, but came home with 11(!!) nightwears (and i already had like 10!!), i became a bit pissed.

I decided to buy a 5 lunchbox pack, thinking that it is what contains the good stuff, because the game does not, so people will buy them, and this is how they want to make money (and okay, they deserve this much compensation for their work).

But what did my boxes contain: two only resources and caps, one a uselewss high charisma rare dweller, and two others with caps food and guess what: two nightwears.

So i came here to rant.

(and since then i got 4 more nightwears.... )

Just back up your save before you open, dOoD