I already made this thread yesterday.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157474-idea-for-damage-types-and-armor-values

I actually made this thread 2 days ago, so

Link?

The one thing that bothers me about this forum is that you basically have one "General Discussion" section, about about 2000 or so people posting single sentences, threads shoot up and down like crazy. If everybody actually put thought into their post rather than just repeating stuff from 5 minutes ago, it wouldn't be so futile to actually make legit suggestions. These last two posts are my exception

Either way, though armor does need to be addressed more than "how epic will skyrim be" so no loss when bumping this thread

Read the date on the OP

I posted THIS SPECIFIC thread two days ago.

Ah, so you beat me to the punch, but to be honest the OP is lacking in content, considering it's such an expansive and important topic.

It describes exactly what I want to see, so I felt I added all the content necessary. Some of the descriptions require viewing links to know exactly how they work, but whatever.

Maybe I didn't do a good enough job saying I want locational damage also, I implied it with the deadric helmet example but didn't explicitly spell it out. Everything else I wanted was described though.

The Mango 55, you're absolutely right and I can't believe this thread has been almost nothing but off-topic discussion about how we all like customization.
People read your "the system wasn't dumbed-down" and quickly jumped to conclusions, without realizing that your thread is not about the amount of armor pieces at all.

If running around naked with only a Daedric Helmet on provides you just as much (or more!) protection as running around in a full suit of leather armor, then something is going wrong. I'm not familiar with this system you've described, but it sounds rather effective, and your statement that it would be possible to have a real difference between Light and Heavy Armor sounds like it's the armor system I want to see in Skyrim.

Ow yeah. Well I must admit, I don't even know what I read at first so XD Must be tired or something. Cause i misinterpreted every part of what you actually said ^^

Fallout's more elaborate damage formulae are a huge improvement over Oblivion's. I would definitely like to see something similar in Skyrim eg. a claymore versus plate armour is little more than a blunt weapon, a bodkin arrow is much more effective against chainmail than a broadhead, a blade thrust versus plate armour is more effective than a slash etc.

Depending on how blocking is implemented, I also think shields should contribute a negligible amount to overall DR unless actually blocking. In Oblivion shields contributed a large proportion of DR and then, in addition, reduced damage by up to 75% when blocking - double dipping and an unfair advantage over not using a shield.

Hmm, I didn't know that was how the shield worked.

Technically, and I'm being realistic here, armor SHOULD only have one value - damage resistance. Think about it. Just because I'm wearing a full suit of crunked-up bat[censored]-insanely awesome Daedric armor does not mean that the ebony battleaxe on a collision course with my torso is going to miss. Damage threshold is irrelevant. It's still going to hit, but the DR will mitigate how much of that damage is actually taken (as armor would).

I agree on that. The reason I didn't like the removal of the pauldron slot and combination of left and right gloves is not because it was simpler, despite what some on these forums seem to think, more complex does not always equal better, and simpler does not always equal worth, sometimes, simpler is simply simpler, what's important is how it impacts the game as a whole. But reducing the amount of armor slots in Oblivion meant players had less customization, and that's why I want a return to being more like Morrowind in this regard, still, I know that's not what this thread is really about.

I actually wouldn't mind a more complex take on armor, because this could potentially put more weight on the choice of armor, and encourage players to wear whatever kind of armor best suits their character or the situation there in rather than whatever has the most defense. In both Morrowind and Oblivion, armor pretty much made a linear progression from low defense items to higher defense ones, and there really wasn't any reason, aside from aesthetics, to continue using a weaker armor if you acquired a stronger one. Maybe once you start dealing with enchanted armor, you might sacrifice the quality of the base item for enchantments you have a greater use for, but when dealing with mundane items, there's really no advantage to not immediately upgrading if you find an armor that has greater defense. One way to reflect this would be instead of just giving all armors a generic "armor value", there could be a number of different damage types in the game, like piercing, slashing, and such, and different types of armor could, instead of just having a generic "Armor" value, offer different levels of defense to different types of damage. This way, not only is there a bit more strategy to choosing what armor to wear, if done well, it would also effect the choice of what weapons to use as well, by extension, since certain weapons would be best against enemies with certain types of equipment, and I'd say that would be a good thing as right now, there's only slightly more strategy involved with choosing weapons than choosing armor because at least with weapons, the attack speed and reach of your are also factors, as well as whether it's one or two handed.

Also, armor should put certain penalties on stealth and movement, and no matter what skills you get, these penalties should never be negated, I understand that in Oblivion, the weight of your boots effected your ability to sneak, but it seemed pretty minor at best, and one skill perk removed it entirely, now, certain skills could reduce these penalties, but they should never be eliminated, this way, depending on how you want to play your character, the choice of armor might differ, as different types of armor should have different penalties. After all, glass armor may have the best defense of any light armor, but I can't imagine wearing a suit made out of shiny green volcanic glass is going to help you remain hidden very well, leather armor would be a much more appropriate choice for a thief. And playing off this design, I'd say that instead of the linear progression from weak armor to strong armor, we could rather have each "tier" of armor have more than one type, each with its own advantages and disadvantages, ideally, the game should be designed to ensure that there's appropriate armor to suit all character types, and players actually have a reason beyond rules set by themselves for the sake of role-playing to choose something appropriate for their characters.



I think the logic of having armor somehow make you more likely to dodge in some rule systems is probably that it doesn't actually help you dodge, but rather, when the attack "misses" due to your armor, it does hit, just fails to pierce through your armor entirely, and doesn't hurt you, in a pen and paper RPG, that looks functionally similar to dodging, I suppose, still, in a game like Skyrim, I'd say it would look pretty awkward if it was like that, if an attack hits but gets deflected by armor, I expect it to look like it actually hit, but failed to pierce my enemy's armor, if an attack misses, I expect it to not look like it hit at all, not just seem to hit, but have no effect as though it just passed through the target.

But there are ways to give armor more stats than just straight up damage resistence than just having something like "armor class".

Giving armor more stats than just an armor rating can change combat a little too. If Dwarven armor is great against fire damage, you might not want to go fireballing people wearing Dwarven armor. You can change your tactics a little here and there to face your enemies in armor because of this.

If an arrow actually bounces off a plate armor I will probably die on the spot with a huge smile on my face :teehee:

yes armor should have many effects depending on its type and ALSO depending on where your putting it (head, chest...etc)

If you get shot with an arrow while wearing plate (I'm talking real life here), you will take ZERO DAMAGE. The armor completely blocked the blow. That translates to damage threshold in game.

The amount of damage the ebony battleaxe does is going to be dependent on if it penetrates your armor. If the blow was very weak compared to your armor it would do basically nothing to you (lower than damage threshold).

And when it does damage you, it's not going to be a straight 1:1 line of attack strength to damage, since if 50% of swing 1 was spent piercing the armor and only half of the force actually damaged you, a swing twice as hard will only use 25% of its strength piercing your armor, it would actually do 3 times as much damage to you instead of twice as much.

Wouldnt it be great if tes 5 took it so far as to make armor actually act like real armor.
Example: Your average agile rogue is attacking a heavily plated enemy with a short sword. Result? Every hit does as much as just bounce off. What do you do? Aim for the joints of the armor.

My memory is kinda hazy, but didn't TES2:Daggerfall already feature locational armor points? At least I recall seeing lots of different numbers around the character doll when wearing armor pieces.

So if they do decide to implement a more locational damage combat (which I hope), you could have one arm covered in Daedric that would hardly get damaged when hit by an enemy, where one covered in Fur would be crippled instantly when hit by an enemy

I want Morrowind's system back. I thought it worked brilliantly. The sense of accomplishment when you finally completed your full set of armour was amazing.

That's not what this thread is about.

Not sure I like the idea of having armour stats that lead combatants 'missing' each other. I feel it somewhat lessens the immersion if the combat is noticeable based on the roll of dice.

Their armor values were consolidated into the rest of the armor in Oblivion so you didn't lose armor rating.

AMEN.
I hope Bethesda stop being lazy, uts easy to throw crap at customers and blame them, wait, thats exactly what doesn t happen, they throw crap and customers like it... Ho well.

For good Armor to be in we would need a system that can take acount of:
Hit location
Material vs Material (easy Excel table as always)
Strenght Vs material (again easy relationed Excel tables)
Relation damege and wear (more excel tables)
Racial armor kind (specific or overall Size, weight) mean you may not be able to use an armor as you find it (either smith craft to adapt it or pay a smither) (more excelllll)

To have an awesome game:
The above +
Hit location mean location damage
Location damage mean hampering (just more excel you know what) - Leg injured = slow, leg cripple = stopped /unable to stand, arm injured = less strenght + less precision (hampered defense attack factor) try to handle a 2 handed weapon with 1 only, try to pull a bow with 1 arm injured.
saoking damage linked to attribute depending on kind of damage (Moorre excel) and birthsigns and magic or non magic protection
Breaking = fubar, don t let it break, or freaking expansive. (sometime its less expansive to make another than repair a broken)
To hit, damge and desense factor = weapon + skill(influenced by attribute linked to the skill) + magic + quality (Excel, Acess or any similar crap)

huh i ll stop here for now this is probably useless anyway.

You ll scream tu dum and get FEAR bullet time. This sound so great .. (sarcasm detector test)

crap can t resist armor kind and material directly affect : sneaking, Climbing, athletics, Acrobat (OK they fused those 2), helmet reduce FOV (field of view) , hearing (merely real trade offs) and agility, stamina rate of use running speed etc. Skills in kind of armor can reduce certain penalities.

Ho gods that how they did RPG s in the old times, now they just do action game fake some skill tree and stamp it RPG.
WAIT STARCRAFT2 have skilltree (reshearch) Starcraft 2 is a RPG.. LOL!!!

Im glad you pointed that out good looking out man :goodjob: , I found some interesting details as well.

If you look on page 52 there is a Nord in the bottom left corner who is wearing the same X strap that the slain Nord and the Dunmer are wearing, the difference being this nord is not wearing a shirt.
If you look up and to the right on page 52 you will see another nord who is wearing the same Chest piece as the attacking nord on page 51, the difference being the walking Nord is wearing a shirt underneath his chestpiece.

Also the Dunmer and the the lower Nord on page 52 are both wearing studded leather gauntlets or armbands, while the slain nord is wearing braided or criss-crossed armbands.

All of this seems to signal a rebirth of the armor system found in Morrowind.

All I gained from reading the first post is that the OP wants Fallout style armour and not Oblivions and definitely not Morrowinds because they're "dumb" ..... :facepalm:

You say cosmetic as if that's not important. A large part of playing an RPG is the cosmetics and look of your character. The more you have to choose from to design a completely unique character tailored to your likes the better.

I believe Skyrim should have hundreds of different armors and robes and cloaks and capes and the ability to dye all of them to your heart's desire.