I want REAL armor depth : V - Skyrim

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:49 pm

what i wanna know is wtf happened to the different types of helmets of the same material?

redoran watchman's helm, daedric face of god, etc etc.

also, if ur saying u dont care about morrowind's armor systeem because its purely cosmetic...maybe TES isnt for u...

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:51 am

We have so many types of damage in the game that it's strange armor only has one rating. I always like the games in which armor would have different ratings for piercing , bashing and slashing damage and it's equally logical to expect it to have different resitances to fire, frost and lightnig. I mean a leather armor would almost evaporate if hit by a powerful fireball, but it would offer much more protection against a lightning than a full-plate being much less of a conductor.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:16 pm

Considering TES is a Single-player game series, cosmetic is actually just as important as usefulness: You don't have any other player that you need to beat, thus requiring better armor - you just have a bunch of NPCs to beat.

Having the option to have a pauldron on one shoulder, and not on the other, or a small on one and a bigger one on the other, is very cool, as it adds realism and immersion.

Realism: In the Medieval times, when buying armor, people bought piece by piece - they didn't buy a full set of boots, gloves, trousers and shirt (Fallout).
And about Pauldrons - if one of your pauldron is destroyed, do you take off the other one, and buy a full new set? No, you keep the one intact, and buy/find a new one... The same goes for everything else. (Yes, by today's standards we buy a new set of shoes when one is ruined, but we live in a time where we spend much more money than we should, whereas in the medieval times, they didn't have that much money)

Immersion: Being able to fully customize your armor makes the game so much more enjoyable, and you can have so many different combinations of armor!

Well, that is my rant for today, and I also agree with the OP of course, having more types of protection and such is a good idea.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:50 pm

Just to really beat that dead horse, Oblivion's armor system was SIMPLIFIED from Morrowind, not dumbed down. Simplified means less options, but same mechanics. Dumbed down means easier mechanics. That being said I want pauldrons and separate gloves.

It all should have to do with locational damage. I'm going to give 2 numbers:

16.00 and 22.50

Basic math tells us that 22.50 > 16.00. But now lets learn what the actual numbers mean. 16.00 is the Armor Rating on a full set of Fur Armor and 22.50 is the Armor Rating on just a Daedric Shield, pulled right from the Construction Set. If I get stabbed in the chest without blocking and am fully naked except my Daedric Shield how does it protect me more than if I am wearing a Fur Cuirass?

The OP has it right. Depending on the type of armor (Chainmail, Dwarven, etc.) and the piece (Greaves, Helm), it should determine how much damage you take and from what. Chainmail won't protect from a piercing attack such as an arrow like plate mail would. Fur burns, but you can scorch steel and it won't take as much damage. The way I see it is Armor should have a variety of stats that may make you think twice about what what to wear.

To be simplified it had to be somewhat complicated, which it wasn't. Also the removal of Morrowind's armor system was to fix the issues that it made such as OP characters. It's been 9 years now and I'm sure they have figured out a way to implement it back in without allowing people to abuse it again with enchanting.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:35 pm

AMEN.
I hope Bethesda stop being lazy, uts easy to throw crap at customers and blame them, wait, thats exactly what doesn t happen, they throw crap and customers like it... Ho well.

For good Armor to be in we would need a system that can take acount of:
Hit location
Material vs Material (easy Excel table as always)
Strenght Vs material (again easy relationed Excel tables)
Relation damege and wear (more excel tables)
Racial armor kind (specific or overall Size, weight) mean you may not be able to use an armor as you find it (either smith craft to adapt it or pay a smither) (more excelllll)

To have an awesome game:
The above +
Hit location mean location damage
Location damage mean hampering (just more excel you know what) - Leg injured = slow, leg cripple = stopped /unable to stand, arm injured = less strenght + less precision (hampered defense attack factor) try to handle a 2 handed weapon with 1 only, try to pull a bow with 1 arm injured.
saoking damage linked to attribute depending on kind of damage (Moorre excel) and birthsigns and magic or non magic protection
Breaking = fubar, don t let it break, or freaking expansive. (sometime its less expansive to make another than repair a broken)
To hit, damge and desense factor = weapon + skill(influenced by attribute linked to the skill) + magic + quality (Excel, Acess or any similar crap)

huh i ll stop here for now this is probably useless anyway.

You ll scream tu dum and get FEAR bullet time. This sound so great .. (sarcasm detector test)

crap can t resist armor kind and material directly affect : sneaking, Climbing, athletics, Acrobat (OK they fused those 2), helmet reduce FOV (field of view) , hearing (merely real trade offs) and agility, stamina rate of use running speed etc. Skills in kind of armor can reduce certain penalities.

Ho gods that how they did RPG s in the old times, now they just do action game fake some skill tree and stamp it RPG.
WAIT STARCRAFT2 have skilltree (reshearch) Starcraft 2 is a RPG.. LOL!!!

Would've been cool if that long post was half coherent. So basically what your saying is if they don't put in the systems you mentioned all in one game then it won't be a good game... So no game that is in existence is a good game?

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:35 pm

All I gained from reading the first post is that the OP wants Fallout style armour and not Oblivions and definitely not Morrowinds because they're "dumb" ..... :facepalm:

I'm not talking about Fallout 3 in case you weren't aware, that uses the same system as Oblivion and Morrowind. I'm talking about Fallout 1 and 2. Fallout: NV took a step in the right direction with Damage Threshold, but it totally replaced DR with DT, when DR should have a place too, just not as much as Oblivion.

Considering TES is a Single-player game series, cosmetic is actually just as important as usefulness: You don't have any other player that you need to beat, thus requiring better armor - you just have a bunch of NPCs to beat.

Cosmetic stuff is important, but gameplay takes precedence over graphics. Armor like I have listed would be deeper, more meaningful, and more interesting than armor is currently. And please stop assuming that I'm against separate paudrons. the number of pieces don't matter, morrowind style would work with my idea as well as oblivion style would.

Realism: In the Medieval times, when buying armor, people bought piece by piece - they didn't buy a full set of boots, gloves, trousers and shirt (Fallout).

Really? Do you have evidence for this? I don't have evidence myself, but considering good armor had to be custom tailored to a person, and you couldn't just pick up plate armor from a dead enemy and use it as if it were made for you, would lead me to assume that people commissioned full suits of armor instead of individual pieces.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:54 pm

I didn't assume anything, just wanted to add my two cents.

And yes, if they needed a full armor, they would buy a full set of armor, but when they replaced armor, they didn't do so, then they bought (Of course, made them fit first) separate pieces of armor, to save money and time.
(Speaking of how it was in Scandinavia now though - which actually fits quite well with Skyrim... Plate armor would be hard to pick up from an enemy, but fur and leather would be more flexible in that matter, though it wouldn't always fit

But, considering this is a fantasy game series, and not real life - realism doesn't really belong here as much, so my real argument is really that I like to be able to customize my character as much as possible.^^
And I would love to have your idea implemented as well, that would add a lot of immersion to the game!

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:56 pm

I didn't assume anything, just wanted to add my two cents.

And yes, if they needed a full armor, they would buy a full set of armor, but when they replaced armor, they didn't do so, then they bought (Of course, made them fit first) separate pieces of armor, to save money and time.
(Speaking of how it was in Scandinavia now though - which actually fits quite well with Skyrim... Plate armor would be hard to pick up from an enemy, but fur and leather would be more flexible in that matter, though it wouldn't always fit

But, considering this is a fantasy game series, and not real life - realism doesn't really belong here as much, so my real argument is really that I like to be able to customize my character as much as possible.^^
And I would love to have your idea implemented as well, that would add a lot of immersion to the game!

Ok, so are you against my idea of adding more complexity to the armor system?

Remember, a better and more complex system can be used whether you have 9-10 pieces like Morrowind, 5-6 pieces like Oblivion, or 2-3 pieces like Fallout.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:24 am

Read the last part of my post...

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:03 pm

As much as a turd Two Worlds was, the basics of its armor system (the different thresholds for different damagetypes) made some sense - and that's something I would like to see in Skyrim (not a straight copy, mind you, but the general direction it had).

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:56 pm

Not only did it add to customization but it added to immersion. Being able to wear clothing under our armor and having belts etc. was amazing.

IMMERSION IN AN RPG WTF WHO WOULD WANT THAT..

seriously though do for immersion in an rpg. I want to put cloth under my armor.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:06 pm

I want more armor parts for atheistic purposes, but I agree on the whole Fallout style armor. I've never played Fallout 1 or 2, but the damage threshold in New Vegas felt like armor should be. I'm wearing a huge suit of thick armor, I move slow, but I can take hits like a champ.

And then explode and die.

In like five years. :dance:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:58 pm

I agree. People will be wanting to pick the straps, buckles, and screws in their armor soon for more enchantment points. I don't like the general pool of armor rating at all.

It was only dumbed down if you don't know what dumbed down means. :thumbsup:

No, seriously.

Simplified. Made less complex. Even ONLY taking the loss of enchantment slots into account, it certainly fits the definition.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:15 pm

So we want:

1. Alot of armor slots for customization.
2. Location specific damage protection.
3. A mix of DR and DT damage system.
4. Damage weaknesses and advantages for certain/specfic weapons types, projectiles, and spells.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:21 pm

So we want:

1. Alot of armor slots for customization.
2. Location specific damage protection.
3. A mix of DR and DT damage system.
4. Damage weaknesses and advantages for certain/specfic weapons types, projectiles, and spells.

Sounds beautiful.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:00 pm

By the looks of the screens in GI, we will at least have arm and leg pieces separate again. Along with the helm and body armor pieces. Some screens look like we might get shoulders as well.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:55 pm

"just" cosmetic isn't something small. Cosmetic is half of the fun in customization