You said in other games you're fine with it... look at skyrim, looks kinda scandinavian right? and look at scandinavian countries's blood covered decapitation filled history. Skyrim has the atmosphere for decapitations, brutality and massive injuries. but it does not have the atmosphere for too much of it. so an occasional 3% chance to sever limbs would be nice, people who have lost their limbs in battle would be nice. wounds would totally add to the realism, but like you said, too much blood isn't reallistic, blood leaks, it does not spray.

TES series aren't exactly the blood and gore splatterfest type.... unfortunately.. but aye i agree with the op, i would like to see at least wounds, and maybe decapitations.

Are you saying that nothing should be improved or changed as the technical capabilities increase? Morrowind and earlier had no physics at all to speak of, and had a chance to hit system as a result. With Oblivion, physics were introduced, and the chance to hit system was removed. With extremely advanced physics and more photo-realistic graphics being added to a series that were "never a part of" the series before, some more realistic actions actually seem very appropriate. I don't want legs to come off and heads to explode on every death myself, but for crying out loud, unmodded... blood decals disappeared in a few seconds in Oblivion! Let's step up to a least some wounding to the character mesh type gore and blood stains at least, not necessarily intestines hanging all over the place though.

Sorry, but the blood thing is fact. Cut someone with sword and you'll get blood. A lot of blood. Not a little to fit someone's idea of a nice and tidy world in which pain is far away. And thus, having blood is as much part of the world as swords and axes. Wanting to keep blood to a minimum because some can't handle it is selfish. Fine, put an option to take it out like you said. But advocating for just a tiny bit because of an erroneous assumption that people don't bleed a lot when cut is plain silly.

And does the thought of someone bleeding all over the place distract you from you real life? Why would its inclusion in the game distract you while in non-combat situations?

See above.

The more realistic the graphics are in an action based game (as opposed to a jrpg style turn based game) the more ridiculous it is if there ISN'T some level of gore... yes, every stab and slice shouldn't sever limbs and blow up heads and cause a fountain of blood... but if you kill someone by hitting them in the face with a battle axe... you can be darn sure there is going to be some visible damage. And if blood DOES spatter, whatever the quantity is not the issue, it doesn't fade away in a few seconds... it stays... The value add is that the actions of the actors match the quality of their graphics and physics.

Gore doesn't add anything to the game, imo. I think a little blood and such would be fine, as long as it isn't overdone. I don't want every fight to end with someone's head or limbs popping off. Have some blood splatter on characters/environment and bloody cuts where they've been struck is good enough. I don't really think the ability to mutilate NPCs is a needed game feature.

And we know that just as we know what happens when a six scene in a movie or a game fades to black or into the next act. We know what it would look like and we know what would happen. What real purpose does seeing the entire damage or gore or six scene add? It's like seeing an attractive person who is sparsely clad or a person without any clothing. They are always more attractive in our minds with a bit of cover. The gore is always there in my imagination just like the sweet parts of a scantily clad man is usually better in my imagination.

But if you add a six scene to a game... you have two options, either show it graphically or censor it. You can fade the screen to black or show the whole thing... it would be stupid if you showed the scene, but the characters remained clothed and just bumped into each other mechanically right?

Its the same for the combat. The combat isn't censored by fading to black... you DO see the sword hitting the person in the face. But instead of a black screen or censorbar... nothing. Essentially, no gore happening when you hit someone in the face violently is as dumb as a six scene where story wise the people are supposed to be having real six, but they are just laying next to each other clothed and making mechanical noises.

Some level of gore is nice in a game.

I mean they have dragons and fire right? I would not mind seeing someone burning to death with flesh having major burn marks or maybe you blast them with a fire spell and don't hit directly so they get a splash damage of burn marks.

Same thing with weapons, I mean it don't have to have blood crazy like Ninja Assassin or 300 but it would be nice to have that option.

Makes it more real when you inflect pain. I mean for some who are not into that sort of thing makes killing more moral. Then again some don't care about morals... That is what games are for anyway. To do something that is almost impossible to the fantasy of impossible right?

Also why not make your skill remark what type of damage. Like if you are trying to master swords. The lower levels would not make very good slices or deep cuts, but as you level up like oh... Say a ninja learning how to use a katana sword would be making master razor cut like slashes, where the sword slices is where the body part slides off. It be nice but not required.

You have got to be the most narrow-minded person I've seen in a discussion about gore on video games.

Look, dude, there's a difference between bleeding when cut and having huge spurts of blood when gut.

If you are cut by a sword, you don't get a huge pressurized spurt. You get whatever blood the blow of the sword forces out as well as the arterial spurts, which aren't huge geysers.


Now, about that little bit you said about people not being able to "handle" it. How many people are using that as their argument? Who has said "I don't think there should be blood because I can't handle it?"

I'm a zombie film die-hard and hardly winced at the gratuitous blood in Peter Jackson's Braindead and didn't bat an eye at Saw 2-5 (Never even watched 6 or, like, 7, the series died by then and I lost interest)

So I can definitely HANDLE blood. But I don't think gratuitous blood belongs in the game. We don't need limbs flying and heads rolling. can it be added? Sure. Maybe Beth is trying to make the game more dark and gritty or whatever. But I don't think that they are going to be adding fallout-levels of gore any time soon.

Please understand that we don't want loads of blood for STYLISTIC reasons, not because we're squeemish.

Ahhh cmon, this is TES not Kill Bill

Also, just a note.
I've watched http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg1xsQ4Avok video of FO gameplay since I haven't played the game (I'm more for fantasy stuff even though this looks good) since I was interested how was gore handled there.
Well, as long I am for all that taboo stuff (nudity, drugs, alcohol, etc.), I still think that it should be done with taste.
FO (at least on this video) didn't do it right.
I mean, guy get's shoot with a machine gun and he falls apart as if he was made from bags of popcorn?
They should work on that and make it so that when you cut someones arm of, it really takes some effort to do that and that it actually feels like cutting someones arm instead of just ripping a doll apart that is filled with cherry juice.
That said, let them make Almalexia resurrect and show us her boobs!

Edit:
I hope that they don't make that 'cinematic aiming' in Skyrim.
I mean, talk about immersion breaker.
All that it needs is a message on the middle of the screen saying 'Wow, what a awesome game feature!' or something like that. >.>

If narrow minded in your book means looking at the world as it is fine, I'll take that label. If someone gets hit by a sword or an ax with hundreds of pounds of force behind it blood is going to go flying.

And people saying that they want an option to turn it off is an indication that they can't handle blood. Didn't say there's anything wrong with it, there's A LOT of people that can't. Stop making assumptions because you don't understand what's being discussed.

There are lot's of movies I don't watch at all because there is unrealistic amounts of "excessive blood". The fact that people don't understand the difference between too little, realistic, and excessive is understandable since we live in a world where we're either sheltered from it, or see excessive amounts in these ridiculous gorefests.

Just because we want an amount that would be realistic doesn't mean we want a gorefest, so get off your high horse.

I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. I wouldnt mind seeing some finishing moves though, just for a little spice.

I thought I heard about perks for Skyrim, so maybe a Bloody Mess perk for the 300 fans out there. Some way of making it optional would be nice, too.

Unless you feel that "Kill Bill" was realistic, you're being quite disingenuous.

Chop off your arm and see if you can still fight.

I agree with dismemberment not announcing that you defeated the enemy, but they wouldn't still be fighting; maybe a few faint swings and then collapse of blood loss, or collapse and hold their wound for you to finish them off.

What you've found for L4D2 is impact with guns with the wounds for the samurai sword and axe being too much of a ripping wound than a cut.

You can make combat satisfying without the over-use of gore, and if it's still an issue; get it for PC and make the game caked with gore with a mod.

Look, he had it right to say it's for stylistic reasons. He should not have labeled you though and for that as a moderator he gets a :slap:

But here you go. Repeatedly I have said, I play games with blood and gore. I love Fallout. I played Mortal Kombat, I play many games with tons of over the top gore. I also said I was a nurse for 28 years and am an avid hunter so what part of that would make me a squeamish person? It's just for this game, I don't want nor expect realistic gore and yes, I would indeed like the option to turn the blood off so when there are grandkids here I can still play my game. I don't need blood and flying body parts to love this game. I love TES and don't believe over the top gore fits the series. Period.

And I don't mind that you disagree. That is fine, but again, it is subjective and some disagree with that opinion. We are both entitled to our individual opinions about this and I won't call you narrow minded nor squeamish or laugh at you or call you sick or put you down for your opinion. It's yours and I am glad you can express it. That does not mean that because someone disagrees they are doing anything other than disagreeing because they don't see it your way. I don't see a problem with that.

I'd prefer more gore too,as long as it's not over the top. Chopping heads off etc is acceptable to me,skyrim is going to be more brutal,and it should be.
Fire now sets things on fire,so if a mage can set a person on fire,or burn them,i think it's fair to expect a person with an axe or sword etc to shed blood etc. If done right,gore can really give you the effect of how dangerous combat is,and theweapon you use. The same goes for magic,if magic look visually good in your hands or thrown etc,it gives you a sense of power. Think of the game style and what we can do as reagards damage,be it weapons or magic,some sort of gore is needed in my opinion. It's kill or be killed."NOT" tickle or be tickled. Animations can be more brutal than the blood itself. If both are done right,not only does it look good,but it shows the power of your weapon or magic etc.

Sorry if you took it that I meant you are squeamish. Wasn't referring to anyone in particular. There are squeamish people, and those wouldn't want blood/gore or would like an option to turn it off. There was all kinds of discussion about the option to turn off blood on the DA forums before the game came out for that reason. Squeamish people exist, and they want what they want. You want a sub-realistic amount of blood, I'm fine with that. The only thing about the blood in Oblivion that I minded is when I slashed a ghost my sword got bloody for some reason. Doesn't mean that people (once again, not you) that think having a little bit of blood is realistic isn't still hilarious though.

Regarding the realism of hitting people over and over again to kill them, this really is a "failing" of a completely different aspect of the game. Personally, I hate having to hit a farmer 17 times with a Daedric Claymore to kill him no matter WHAT my strength stat is. I personally modded my Oblivion to make enchanted weapons almost unheard of in their rarity, made the world static, and boosted weapon damage 300%. How many times you hit the opponent to kill them depends on what you want in "balance" for combat, its not directly related to gore. How much "health" someone has is an abstraction for their endurance to survive combat, its not the amount of blood they have in their body. Perhaps some of their "health" disappears as their "luck" runs out for the final blow to find its mark, or some "health" disappears as they weather the blows that land on their armor... its really only the final blow that actually "lands" the rest have to be dismissed as abstractions or else you have to live in a world where people are actually surviving multiple sword thrusts to the face.

I assume that its issues related to this that people are referring to as stylistically incompatible to gore. TES IS an action-based game (especially with the addition of realistic physics) even if that's not the way some are choosing to look at it... its just an action game where health value to damage value are extremely askew from a realistic amount of punishment a humanoid can take. Some things you can't completely throw out the window, because in this case if you made people all die in a realistic number of sword swings, that number would be between 1 and 3 from the beginning of the game and there would be no progress at all. Again, this is a "failing" of the absurdity of "health and damage" in a video game in the first place, but it can't be solved if you want to have any sense of progress to the game (not to mention you the player would be pretty hard pressed to survive yourself otherwise).

Really, there is nothing you can do about this in any video game. This still doesn't mean that the blows that actually do kill should be ignored and a nice neat serene dummy should lay in front of you after a violent encounter.

I think tickling should be added in. but for realisms sake (since people cite this for gore), NPCs should pee their pants if tickled too much.

There are no bodily function in fantasy. :/

Not everybody is ticklish you know. >.>

Tell me, sir, when was the last time you sent an axe flying into a chest with hundreds of pounds of force?