I think if they put kicks in they probably would add it in.

I really don't care. I'm not going to be staring at my feet as I run.

Don't get me wrong I'm for adding them in I just took up the argument from the other side because you completely twisted what he said whether you admit it or not, I'm not going to argue about that anymore because it's really a petty argument and I don't know why I even started.
I do agree though that the game would be better off with than without just for the added realism of being able to see your body.


I took peripherals as meaning legs since that's what the whole thread is about and I only came to that conclusion by extending logic

I see you added a little extra tidbit after I started typing but if you read his post he said
"YEP, becuase I am not focusing on the person I am focusing on the game "

I'd like to see it, personally. If not just for the shadows.

Looking into some water or something reflective and seeing my characters face looking back at me though...that would blow my mind.

You can extend logic from a portion up to the whole, but you can't extend logic from the whole down to a portion.
This is one of the fundamental principles of formal reasoning

(I actually have quite a lot of training in formal logic, I used to be a logic instructor at a couple universities. I realize that I get pretty annoying to people that haven't had my class. I make leaps that, while technically valid, most people just wouldn't make.)

BTW good talk. No hard feelings.

I have no idea what you're talking about extending logic from a portion to a whole... :confused: lol we almost completely derailed the entire thread but yes no hard feelings

I, too, would like to see my characters' legs and feet because it makes the experience more realistic and as if you're really there in the game in first-person mode.

Definitely want to see some full body awareness.

Like I said, maybe it's just because I've been playing 1st-person games since they let you look up & down (all the way back to Marathon, in the Doom 1 era), but I'm completely used to the fact that you don't see your feet when you look down. It's completely expected, and doesn't at all make me think "wow, I'm just a viewpoint and two floating forearms". (only thing that's ever done that is really badly done games where you could see the forearms cut off when you panned down...)

As others have said, when I want to admire the armor my character is wearing, I go into 3rd person or TFC. Actually, if they do it "realistically" - hah! - then shouldn't you see your chest when you look down? Hmmm, there's a thought.... DD female body mod, low-cut armor, massive cleavage... ok, "full body awareness" sounds like a great idea now! :whistling:



...and yes, that's facetious. Still don't really see what the big deal is.

I'm in the minority that doesn't actually care about this feature. I don't see what it would really add to the game.

Well we never will be able to create a character that is totally realistic, I don't even think it's possible. When I look around I can see my chest, shoulders, and if I look hard enough I can even see my own nose. (Close one eye and look down and to the middle with the other one. There it is!)

I don't even WANT a camera that realistic. It would be impossibly distracting and very hard to get right. But if there are some things that are small enough to include and that make a difference, I say go for it.

The big deal isn't about watching your cute little feet, watching your big modded boobs (and btw, don't include future mods into the discussion, that's really not relevant for this discussion at all), nor is it about watching your armor.

The big deal is that it enhances the 1st person experience into something more... well. A much greater experience. Not only more realistic, but something that makes you feel even more that you're viewing from your characters eyes. Something that makes you feel that you are a character.

The big deal can be shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N1TJP1cxmo

Meh. I suppose.

Of course, it should also be obvious that this feature would be several orders of magnitude more important in a game about free-running.

I've also wanted this feature, in real life you can see your entire body but the head and back while looking around, in Oblivion ou could only see your arms. However it's not really on top of my priorities, it would be nice, but it's not necessary and I won't be sad or feel like anything is missing if it's not there.

In Killzone 3 u can see ur legs

Better, show something earlier and under the same broad genre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20ElnIsWM

Yes me too! I want to see my legs!

I want to hit a wall with my hands!

I want a lot of animation in First Person and Third Person

I don't the why it would matter, if its in its cool but if not I probably won't even notice.

In FEAR (1 and 2) you can see you legs... why always see newest games?

What about see you shadow?? I want to see my shadow in First Person Mode!

Arma2 example of FBA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_0fnl26Z5c, and how it also works with freelook - and I desperately want both.

Basically what you see in 1st person is exactly the same as you see in 3rd person minus the head and headgear. When done correctly:
* There is no need for separate overlays (which just makes carrying a weapon appear weird when you aim down).
* You can do balancing acts without the aid of a crosshair.
* I want to see my foot kicking into things and cause them to fly, rather than a body collision cage getting too close.
* It could be useful for puzzles.
* Avoiding traps if you cant disarm them, but threading carefully and precisely.

Some of the features in Arma2:
* You have IK limiters depending on stance. I.e. you have more freedom of view control standing up compared to taking a knee or being prone.
* It's not about "looking down to see your feet". Feet will also come into view when "jumping/vaulting" an obstacle (no bunny jumping in Arma2 though).
* Freelook allows me to look over my shoulder (and see it) when running away. Also important since backwards speeds is limited (sound familiar)?
* The *only* differences between 3rd and 1st person modes are headbob (configurable), camera placement, hidden dead/headgear, and camera flares.

Another classic example of full immersion in 1st person is FarCry2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gekB9PRCFzU

Why settle for anything less?

Main in game benefit it then you walk on narrow edges like a plank or on top of a wall.

Because it seems like a lot of effort for something amazingly minor? (Really, except for peering around corners, which is a function in almost every stealth/cover-shooter game regardless of whether you can see your legs, what does that stuff in Arma really add? It didn't do anything for me. Sorry. Guess it's just one of those "have to agree to disagree" things....)


...and that Far Cry video was terrible. The first half being mostly at night didn't help you see anything, it didn't look like there's any "see your legs" type stuff, and the running animation (where the guy was sprinting with his map & PDA out) looked awful.


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Disclaimer, just to clarify my general viewpoint - most of the threads in the last few years where the word "immersion" has been thrown around, have led to me having an instinctive reaction toward the word like most people have to that essentially meaningless business-speak stuff like "leveraging the commodification of our shareholder value" (/vomit). And I've generally come down on the other side of most of the things people were claiming was "better"

(for example - people pre-FO:NV were clamoring for the need for "iron sights". I hate them. I was glad you could turn that feature off, because the FO3 method - gun to the side and crosshair in the middle, was far superior... all those sights did was clutter your view and make it hard to aim at stuff. Ditto in Borderlands... except for scoped weapons, I never aimed any of those guns because the "iron sights" made it much harder to hit stuff.)

I hope we at least see our own shadow in first person. Full body awareness would be great too as it adds so much to immersion.

The Arma 2 game that was mentioned few posts back is a good example - there when you run you really feel like you're running there when you see your body and shadow when looking around.

Harder to hit things sure, but less fun? I think not. I love to go shooting for sport. I always put shooter games into two categories, CS games and COD games. CS games are the magic perfectly centered crosshair that you always hit no matter where your gun is actually pointing, and COD games are the iron sight games that let you hit what you shoot at.

I prefer the iron sight games every time. It's more fun because it's more similar to the actual activity. (Not even close, granted, but more similar anyway).

Of course it's harder to hit things with iron sights but the magic cross-hairs are just corny. I don't want the game to hit my targets for me, I want to try and do it myself.