Ahaha, really? I actually imagined that they would be all about the BoS

In Fallout they had a presence but were entirely avoidable and in Fallout 2 they had three guys and only one of them really spoke to you; they didn't even wear T-51b in Fallout 2 but just metal armour, they were scouts really, maintaining a low profile and monitering an organisation with access to technology far greater than their own the Enclave.

I read the email. I read between the lines in the email too. Avellone can t say what is canon. Bethesda owns that bible and says its canon unless contradicted by a game. Avellone did not answer the question about the Enclave line because he can t. Only Bethesda can tell you if that line is canon. They won t tell you a thing.

As far as I ve argued no game contradicts that line. Avellone wrote that well after fo2. IMO it was for emergency Enclave purposes.

Meaning he could pull them out several games down the road to breath life into fo if needed. The guy would not contradict his own game.

Thank you President Richardson:

{273}{prs54}{You could try, I suppose, but soon the staff of the Enclave and Navarro will be inoculated.}

The staff of the Enclave and Navarro will be innoculated, nowhere else! He could have said, soon we shall be innoculated but no he specifically said those two things because they are the [censored] extent to the damn Enclave in 2242. Yeah, they will be brought back given that Bethesda likes to pander to it's fans with things like Broken Steel and Mothership Zeta; doesn't mean that it won't be ridiculous and full of plot-holes and I'll be waiting for that day.

The Enclave has it right. they only ever had those two bases. They where originally never intended to outlive fallout 2 as well.

Yeah, the way that Obsidian just said '[censored] it' and kept Navarro even though it has zero reason to have been occupied after the Enclave moved to Raven Rock makes it clear to me that they were determined to have their original ending to even if it no longer made sense- and therefore the Enclave - by just saying the NCR took it and the Enclave scattered.

Some people here are failing to realize the way the world really works.

"Everyone hated the US" I big money behind the scences shadow goverment life there is only one flag they pay attention to.....MONEY and POWER.

The British or German or Saudi Arabian shadow governments don t care about their flag or who hates who. They will all flock together to pull major resources to survive the war of 2077.

The possibilities are endless. Enclave size in the world 200 years later could be unimaginable. 1 bunker in the Congo. The Congo doesn t get hit with nukes, because no one cares. Tribals like the Sarrows pure humans, but instead of the burned man telling them what to do enter the worlds Enclave. The Enclave in the US are all but destroyed, but don t think for one minute that other powerful rich people in high places around the world could not conspire with the US shadow goverment.

Money and power flocks to money and power. The flag waiving above the capital means little to nothing to these people.

Go to the bottom of the last page.

Possible yes, but not certain. Or why did Avellone write that line. Bethesda in a way screwed up by using them in fo3, but at the same time had to make and epic blockbuster. Enclave vs BOS achieved their goal, but for fans of older fo the Enclave have worn out their welcome. If I were Bethesda I would stay away from Enclave for a good long while. Just as the series is about to run its course I d bring in the Enclave from Avellones line and have them take over.

Then the series can be streched out as a resistance vs Enclave for a good long while. Fo has a shelf life, and at some point thd game will need a real plot change or fade away and turn to sims. Enclave building up over seas is own best chance of having major war after all the territory squabling is over. In the end Enclave can extend fo

Then they aren't the Enclave are they? The name is either derived from the Oil Rig itself which was called Control Station ENCLAVE or they named the Oil Rig after themselves, you know, when they turned it into their capital.

{273}{prs54}{You could try, I suppose, but soon the staff of the Enclave and Navarro will be inoculated.}

Avellone worked on Fallout 2, if he really wanted to leave himself a loophole to bring the Enclave back then why is this line so specific and final? Two bases, the Enclave and Navarro.

Made an equally valid post above this in case you miss it. Don't want you to not notice the line specifically mentioning Navarro and the Enclave being the only places innoculated do I?

Rook you... if what Chris says favors your opinion, you act as if it is fact, when he says that it shouldn't be taken as canon, you say he has no credibility on the subject. Your argument is empty because there is no evidence, you are making a claim and using a counterclaim that makes your claim invalid!

If they let me handle it when fo is about done everything will be fully explained. You better hope there is a big bad Enclave out there. The same territorys can only be fought over so many times. A more powerful force will be needed to extend the series. A force the NCR and such just can t cope with. The Enclave in force are it

This

Also:
"an enclave is a territory whose geographical boundaries lie entirely within the boundaries of another territory."

Would it make much sence if the Enclave are everywhere if they are an enclave?

What? All I'm hearing is that the Enclave are a cool villian, not that it makes any kind of sense for them to still be out there somewhere as I have - and will continue to disprove - on multiple levels. Richardson's last quote and the Enclave's connection to the Oil Rig through the naming plus the fact that the President of the United States dike Richardson is just that, the President of the United States, means that the Enclave is nothing more than the remnants of the US Government that took shelter on an Oil Rig which they prefurbished to serve as their continuity of government base; you know where are that stuff about them being a shadow government and a conspiracy comes from? The bible, nowhere in game is such a thing ever alluded to and I am increasingly in opposition to the the Enclave being anything other than the US Government and Military-Industrail Complex.

The only wild part about my theory is that the Enclave would finally knuckle under and join with another group. I myself would not mind them simply dying out or becoming a smaller faction just living day by day doing something else besideds trying to take over the world. I mean really they have tried twice. The first time they lost their whole civilian leadership. The second time it was just Eden and nothing but military people and military can't be president. They died again. There really is nothing left for them but for Chicago. An outpost most likely built by the Enclave from Navarro on their way to DC.

Midwestern Brotherhood have been in the Chicago area for over 80 years. They haven't made contact with the original BoS and Fallout 3 says they had "fallen on hard times." With possibly new evidence from New Vegas that hints that the Legion is making contact with BoS in the East. Legion are in Colorado and the Midwestern BoS made it to Colorado. That could be evidence that the Midwestern BoS are now reduced to strongholds across the Midwestern United States.

Anyways the Enclave are in Chicago and the Midwestern BoS are in Chicago. The two had to have crossed paths and I doubt the remnants would have been able to wipe out the Midwestern BoS. The MWBoS would be interested in the Enclave's tech and as a bonus, the MWBoS would not know of the Enclave for they left before Fallout 2. I am hoping that the Barnaky Ending is the Canon ending to Tactics even if the Enclave have nothing to do with it but I can see a role for Enclave remnants to be apart of the MWBoS. I only started working them into the theory when Ed-E told us the Enclave are in Chicago.

And the [censored] Batman could show up out of cryo-sleep and Ghoul Joker. Damnit, Rook, you can't use a negative as evidence! Are you seriously of the opinion that, just because it could (and this is a very low chance) come back, it should? Out of some damn horrible loophole that completely negates the entire idea of the Enclave from station ENCLAVE?

They don't need the Enclave to come back as the next major enemy ever again. They can always use the Midwestern Brotherhood under General Barnaky. An advanced technological, fascist military state that is fighting a war of extermination against mutants and mutant sympathizers. Still they share tech with human settlements. So there is nice moral gray there.

Still there is some nice room for Enclave remnants to join the MWBoS as an independent body.

This.

Rook, the burden of proof lays with you at the moment. Which means that you need to come up with hard evidence that can prove your position.

In the Email to Styles, Avellone does not say Enclave at all.

He says Bethesda desides what it canon. I m not saying its canon. What I m trying to say is it is an entry back into fo if they are needed.

When this seriew settles down and becomes sims. Then it will be time for Avellones line to be canon and extended to explain all the questions and he said she said. Or after a 3-5 more games fo becomes sims. I think Bethesda fo4 will not be nearly as mad maxish as fo3. I ll bet 10 caps that what ever area we go to is more like fo nv. Bethesda had to splash this series back into the spotlight and they did. Fo3 was a 1 off IMO

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/121/unleddni.jpg/ Seriously Rook you past over my concrete proof by saying you would have done it better; what kind of answer is that.

Then what are you arguing? Do you believe in the face of everything that the Enclave is some trans-governmental organisation yes or no. Stop flitting about and avoiding the issue, this is an Enclave topic, do you stand bye what you have previous said? It is a back entry proven incorrect.

Bethesda are the keepers of the Lore now. If they want to bring them back as a super power again they can. Still just because they have the power to bring them back for fan service doesn't mean they should. That one line from the Bible about world bases is total crap. Pay attention to Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas. All signs point to the Enclave having no bases around the world. All the evidence shows that they are wiped out all but for Chicago. They are nothing but remnants.

If Bethesda brings them back as a super power they are pretty much Rebooting Fallout. They would be saying Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are wrong. Now in that case It wouldn't be those games that are wrong it would be the Fallout Bethesda makes that brings the Enclave back as a super power.

Remember just because they can doesn't mean they should. Interplay had that same attitude and it caused them to almost go bankrupt. They made "Brotherhood of Steel" with that attitude that they can do what ever the hell they want.

Even if they confirmed that statement and said the Enclave were in other places, how would they get them in another game? Would they extend the flight time of vertibirds to get them overseas? What would be the point in heading over to America?

In other words, it would create more and more questions and problems that would leave us scratching our heads.

Enclave- a minority culture group living as an entity with in a larger group. (new world dictionary 2nd college edition)

When they put me in charge when fo is struggling the "larger group" will not be just the US, but the world. The "minority culture group" will not be only made of US govn and rich people, but all the worlds shadow govern. and rich people. Then I will fully explain by in game lines that the fo2 and fo3 Enclave were the US main branch. Richardson simply didn t tell you about the rest of the worlds Enclave because he thought he had it all wrapped up. Why mention them? He is a filthy politician. He wants to look like he did it all even to a crumby wastelanded.