was mankar cameron Dovahkiin?

Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:40 pm

It's Camoran. Camoran. CAMORAN.

CAMORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
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barbara belmonte
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:49 am

I think the idea of "blood" is really messing with people. As far as I'm concerned, the moniker of "Dragonborn" is a description based on someone's actions or stance, as opposed to any sort of birth. Mankar could wear the Amulet because he was such a strong willed badass that it LET him wear it. You are Dragonborn by your actions, not by your birth. Not to mention, the lore forumers will tell you this (if I recall correctly), that the true Septim bloodline has been broken for ages. Martin was not a direct descendant of Tiber or Alessia.


No that is not true at all, it is said many times the Blood of the kings was needed.
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louise tagg
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:28 am

No that is not true at all, it is said many times the Blood of the kings was needed.

It is part true. In the sense of even though it's possible for a entire bloodline to be Dragonborn if you take the Septims as the rule. But I think they were a special case, having the whole covenant with Akatosh and everything. That does not mean being Dragonborn is by blood only. Like I said in my earlier post look at the Nerevarine. He/She was Dragonborn and had no relation to the Septim line whatsoever.
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emily grieve
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:07 am

Where was it stated that the Nerevarine was a Dragon Born?
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:43 pm

No that is not true at all, it is said many times the Blood of the kings was needed.

Once again, this whole "blood" thing is confusing people. A courageous person can have the blood of a lion, just as a commanding individual could have the blood of a dragon, or the blood of kings. Its a concept, not a bloodline measurement.
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sarah
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:11 am

Once again, this whole "blood" thing is confusing people. A courageous person can have the blood of a lion, just as a commanding individual could have the blood of a dragon, or the blood of kings. Its a concept, not a bloodline measurement.

Technically you're both right. Any descendant of the Septim bloodline could have lit the dragonfires. That's why the mythic dawn assassinated Uriel and all of his known heirs. Effectively ending the Septim line. But like I've said being Dragonborn doesn't only occur through blood. My understanding is once you become Dragonborn so will your descendants.

From the Game Informer Skyrim issue:

Long age, a force existed that expelled the dragons. Individuals called dragonborn wield the same mighty power as the dragons themselves. "The dragonborn can battle the dragons on another level." Howard describes. "They're anointed by the gods.[Nord pantheon. Possibly Shor and/or Kyne] That's why they can light the dragonfires to become an emperor. They kind of help make the world whole."
These powerful figures were supported by the dragonguard, later called the Blades. After the dragons' retreat, the Blades eventually came to guard one ancestry of the dragonborn individuals, the Septim emperors, unfortunately for the world, that lune of rulers has now been wiped out. And the dragonguard [blades] has been hunted down and nearly destroyed. No dragonborn has been seen in decades until you arrive - a dragonborn with the potential to stand against the tide.

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Devils Cheek
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:23 am

sorry if someone already said this but, Skyrim takes place 100yrs after Oblivion....just saying....
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:05 am

sorry if someone already said this but, Skyrim takes place 100yrs after Oblivion....just saying....

Two hundred yeas actually. But what does that have to do with this discussion?
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Kelsey Anna Farley
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:46 am

Todd said mankar was from a different line of kings
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Captian Caveman
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:34 am

Todd said mankar was from a different line of kings

Yes, he was technically the heir to the Ayleid kingdom, if I recall.
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Robert Jr
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:40 pm

There's this huge debate going on, but does it really matter? How will his being Dragonborn affect anything in any way?
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Rachyroo
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:11 am

I'd say yes TBH..
The Nerevarine was dragonborn, Shezzarine are or at least possessed by an entity that allows the use of Thu'um ( dragon shouts, nordic vocal powers. )
The king of worms, the underking and all those linked to him, Tiber Septim..
Many of the protaganists in game and lore could be or are said to be dragon born.

Oddly I'd say Dragonborn are designed to to cause a dragonbreak.

It sounds wierd I know.
All the characters and events surrounding the games both PC and lore.
The act of destroying time and shifting / shaping the world, healing and destroying at the same time.
Mankar was looking to break the covenant, trying to break the dragons back.
Unsealing the gates that both Akatosh and the Ancestors of a dragonborn put in place.
The opening of the gates allowed a "demi god" free reign in KotN, one with immense powers.

My personal view is that there may be an event like the warp in the west planned, or something very explosive at the end.
Lorkhan coming back, or Akatosh being shown as an enemy.
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Joey Bel
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:32 pm

There's this huge debate going on, but does it really matter? How will his being Dragonborn affect anything in any way?


It matters as much as anything else in the game series.
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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:37 am


And to everyone saying He could wear the amulet because in his realm of paradise the rules of Mundus don't apply I guess you guys forgot he was wearing the amulet at the Dagon Shrine.
http://images.uesp.net//a/ad/OB-npc-Mankar_Camoran.jpg



going into the OP
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xx_Jess_xx
 
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Post » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:12 pm

He might had been one of the Dragonborn, certainly there's nothing out there to say he wasn't. I kind of like that idea too.

I mean in addition to possibly being a dragonborn he used magic and his own already long Altmer life span to make himself live unnaturally long.

It also seemed like he was one of the few from the beginning of the game that actually knew what the Amulet of Kings was for, which is why he was so desperate to take it from the Emperor. Whether this was information from Dagon, or something he already knew, we'll probably never know for sure. But I think it would be cool if he was actually one of the last dragonborn, just twisted and evil.


Theres nothing out there that says his favorite color was blue, judging only from the color of his robe. However, thats not a logical way of judging his favorite color was blue just from that fact.

And so what if he is Dragonborn? That doesnt affect anything. Lots of people are Dragonborn, but only the Septims can be emperors. Theres a whole complicated story of how the Tiber Septim became the rightful bearer of Alessia's legacy (the pact with Akatosh). Its very possible that Nerevarine was dragonborn too (although Azura was simply mentioning the fact he/she was born in the empire). This doesnt change anything, or makes things "more interesting". Theres no dragons, and only select people are taught to use Thu'um, so being dragonborn before the Skyrim timeline makes no difference (unless you happen to be the bastard child of a Septim).
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:49 am

Theres nothing out there that says his favorite color was blue, judging only from the color of his robe. However, thats not a logical way of judging his favorite color was blue just from that fact.


the Champ of cyradill, favorite colour wasn't brown either, he could still wear brown clothing tough, but if you do not have the blood of the septim's (of which the special thing was that they where dragonborn) you can't wear the amulet of kings, there.
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Taylah Haines
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:15 am

the Champ of cyradill, favorite colour wasn't brown either, he could still wear brown clothing tough, but if you do not have the blood of the septim's (of which the special thing was that they where dragonborn) you can't wear the amulet of kings, there.


But, there are alternate explanations to that.

And you are missing the point: the Amulet of Kings cannot be worn by any dragonborn: only Septims. They are the line of emperors, they have the right, given to them by Akatosh, to rule the Empire. Camoran cannot be emperor, even if he is dragonborn. So even if he was, he could not wear the amulet, unless by some unknown daedric means.
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Sabrina Steige
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:40 am

Who cares? Hes dead now.

Unless he comes back from the grave with the help of the King of Worms to help stop Alduin because eating thw world would be totally not in line with their plans, I see no point.
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loste juliana
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:50 am

Keep in mind that the dragonborn weren't in lore before. Not that they or other parts of lore were retconned, but that this is an expanded piece for Skyrim that also attempts to explain some other interesting parts of history, such as what really made the bloodline of the Septims so special. The fact is that it is bound to create some inconsistencies, as previous lore was not built with the existence of dragonborn in mind, or that Thu-um was the language of dragons. Before Skyrim, the Septims were a sacred bloodline blessed by Akatosh, and Thu-um was an ancient Nordic art now used only by the Graybeards. When they decided to put the amulet on ol' Mankar, it wasn't with "Oh, he's a Dragonborn too" in mind. You can use this idea to explain it now, but the fact is that he wasn't wearing the Amulet because he was a dragonborn, as that idea just didn't exist when he did it.

The most likely scenario to me is that he had his own plane of Oblivion which allowed him to bend the rules. Mankar also did not utilize the same methods as Dagon to enter and exit Oblivion, which were the portals. Certainly you used an improvised portal to get there, but Mankar has his own ways of going there and back. Oblivion isn't always a "you're in there or you aren't" kind of deal. There are a few cases where one can simply walk into Oblivion without going through any sort of portal. Consider the Daedric shrine quest for Vaermina. You go into a simple fort to reclaim an item from a guy trapped in a coma. As you go deeper, things get strange, and suddenly you're standing in a black chasm with floating rocks connected by Daedric-style bridges. Oblivion can simply bleed into reality sometimes. The Infernal City also details how it's possible to have a bubble of Oblivion existing inside Mundus while still remaining a part of it's original dimension. In Paradise, Mankar governs reality to an extent (though apparently not completely due to his inability to be immortal in it). I believe it wasn't "his" plane of Oblivion per se, but a chunk of it leased from Dagon. I don't think it's possible for one to simply create their own plane of Oblivion, but he could have borrowed it and gained some level of control over it. With his own rules in effect and the fact that the amulet is no longer on Tamriel, he may have acquired the ability to wear it. In addition, this ability could extend to Lake Arrius Caverns if one assumes that the rules of Paradise have bled into that part of Tamriel (which would also make sense, given that it's the headquarters of the Mythic Dawn)

There is just one unexplained phenomenon, which is how his followers can have their souls transferred to Paradise when they die (which also extends to the Shivering Isles to some degree, see Big Head). The only answer I can think of is that they are Soultrapped to Paradise, and when they die their souls are literally contained in that plane of Oblivion.

But in the end, the fact remains that there is no official explanation for it. Because the nature of the dragonborn is invented now, and because Mankar's ability to wear the amulet is still unexplained, it can be simply shrugged off as "Oh, he's a dragonborn too". The only thing I can say for sure is that the dragonborn excuse was not used when they made it work like that. Who knows what they had in mind when they set that up.
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Latino HeaT
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:36 am

People, looks like you have the syndrome of the hidden meaning search. It's much more likely that it was just a mistake of the devs. Otherwise they should've already commented that I think. But I REALLY hope there's a good explaination to be released by devs, even if it was made up just to cover the mistake.
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Kelly James
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:45 am

Everyone should go read up before they start talking about stuff like this. The facts are that the amulet may only be worn by certain individuals - those who can be said to have the 'Dragon Blood' in their veins. The specific requirements, however, are a subject of debate, and they may simply call for the attributes of a ruler or some divine mandate.

Anything beyond that, like I said before, is subject to debate. There's no solid proof one way or the other, it can't be said. Dragon Blood could simply mean someone chosen by Akatosh, and not actually have anything to do with dragons. Dragonborn seems to mean we're someone beyond even Tiber Septem. An expert user of Thu-um, he was able to use it quite well. Dragon blood could simply mean they were chosen by the gods to lead the Empire, and they gained a little bit of power because of that. Dragonborn instead seems to be people whom are chosen by the gods to be able to wield the power of the dragons themselves.

I think because the terms are so close to being the same thing, and that Tiber Septim was both chosen to lead the empire and able to use thu-um so it gets confusing. Basically there are three things going on here. Thu-um is the ability to use voice, or words of power. Dragonborn seems to be a person who can use Thu-um in a manner closer to dragons themselves, along with being able to use dragon souls to help learn shouts faster. And Dragon Blood is a blessing a god gives to a person to help them lead the Empire, which also allows them to wair the amulet of kings as proof. Tiber Septim was a person blessed with dragon blood and whom could use Thu-um. We will be dragonborn. Mankar was blessed by Dagon with the Mysterium Xarxies, which allowed him to make his Paradice, along with the power to make that Paradice. Because he was blessed by a god, he was able to wair the Amulet of Kings.

Of course, that's my interpretation of the events. Its up to debate, and nothing is for sure till its confurmed.
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Laurenn Doylee
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:29 am

Maybe he was a half blood step child whose born to a bastard.
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victoria gillis
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:15 am

Who cares? Hes dead now.

Unless he comes back from the grave with the help of the King of Worms to help stop Alduin because eating thw world would be totally not in line with their plans, I see no point.


and hereby my first high elf Char in Skyrim will be called: Mankar Cameron
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Del Arte
 
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Post » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 am

Maybe he was a half blood step child whose born to a bastard.



His father was Cameron the Usurper. It's in the book "The Refugees"--you can read a copy on the shelves in "First Edition."

Or go here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Refugees
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Cesar Gomez
 
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