Ahead of its time? No, Awesome game, yes.

Same. I never follow any game's development other than what every Internet user is exposed to in daily use. With Skyrim for example, I didn't even know what the game is about except a place called Skyrim, until after I read reviews saying it's good, then I went and bought it. And alas I wasn't nearly as butthurt as some people seem to be.

Paradox Interactive is the only developer who I can trust to be honest, though I still don't follow their game development since their games are always the same anyway, just with a few new features and stuff. I like their style, don't fix something that isn't broken. That's what Beth should have done when they got the great idea of removing spell making and hand-to-hand skill, not to mention a dozen other nice things from the past.

Skyrim had wonderful unique dungeons as well as gameworld. The plotlines fall rather flat though. If only it had plots of something like in DragonAge, then daaaamn.

Did you even check those?

That's Pete Hines (Bethesda employee) on the record saying you can manipulate the economy, that dragons aren't scripted and a third one (forget which, posted this a bit ago but watch the vid and you'll see) all in one video. The first link? A direct result of a claim made by a Bethesda employee; it's not some random yahoo making stuff up, it's some random yahoo reacting to an interview with Pete Hines that I just linked you.

Honestly it amazes me how much people try to defend companies and forget that blatant lying and misdirection took place for the sake of hype and profit.

Stop defending stuff like this and ignoring it or it's doomed to happen all over again, unless you enjoy being misled and lied to. I mean ffs, this one isn't Skyrim but if there was ever any debate about Bethesda's intentions or intent to mislead? ("Oh Pete overhyped it ON ACCIDENT! He didn't mean to and it's our fault for misinterpreting him!") I'd kindly point you to the http://youtu.be/pjbx6-KQoRg?t=2m14s. This is a pattern, it's not an accident.

Except not everyone likes roleplaying games like Skyrim, and it won't satisfy every want even for those who love it. It certainly doesn't replace the Stalker games for me (especially with the upcoming Lost Alpha), nor the Total War games.

As wonderful as Skyrim is, its only revolutionary feature was it was THE buggiest and glitch filled game ever created. It was and still is phenomenally buggy

You're new to Bethesda, aren't you?

1. You break it by killing the owner.

2. That's quite the exaggeration.

3. They do not spawn in the same spots. Sure, they protect the walls. But isn't that expected. However, that is talking about the radiant AI. There is no random event trigger area that is devoted to only Dragons.

Pattern... are you serious? You consciously conclude this is all part of a conspiracy to mislead the public?

Why do you torture yourself with the series if it disgusts you so? Do you actively just play TES to try to see just how bad it is, to pass judgment on other games? That's what it really comes down to, isn't it?

You didn't buy Skyrim because you are truly passionate about the game, but to pick apart everything so you can continue to complain about the FO series and ridicule the company at every turn.

It's not about defending Beth at all. it's about tiring of the conjured illusions to discredit where there is no reason to do so. I'll, be the first to show my discontent for features that were done wrong, changed or left out altogether. That is something we have in front of us. Not crying over spun media. Your exaggerated list is no different than the claims you propose. It's compiles 8 items which arguably may have two that could even be considered a discussion topic. Even then... is it really that game breaking of an issue? Really?

Nvmd... don't answer that, as I predict it will be more of the 'pattern of misleading conspiracy".

I've seen the bugs and glitches explained away as a "feature" of open world gaming. While GTA 5 isn't bug-free, it certainly shatters the notion the number and severity of bugs that plague the TES series are unavoidable. Beth better step up their game.

1. "Breaking the mill" does nothing to the economy.

2. Each radiant quest giver is limited. Go check the wiki. Yes, there are some that are expansive (word wall radiant quests) but there's many that are limited to ~5-10 or less locations.

3. Several dragons are infact scripted and have a regular pattern to their behavior. Hell, my question is more what dragons are supposed to be radiant. Feels more like several have spawn points they stick to like glue while a couple others, the game does a dice roll to see if they spawn or not. Who here has been attacked by a dragon directly after taking a carriage to Falkreath? I have 20 times over.

If I had a dollar for every time I came to this forums and had my arguments met with ad hominem attacks or attacks on New Vegas instead of actual responses to my criticism or points, I could retire. And I'm 24.

It's very simple. Bethesda is a company. A company's purpose and core design is to make money. Some companies do this to an extent others won't. A user in this thread claimed Bethesda never lied about Skyrim (and he clarified what he meant), I called BS, and here I am linking sources. Here I am highlighting a pattern of misdirection, exaggerated features and blatant lies by Bethesda. There's no denying it exists. Hell, your post doesn't even attempt to deny it but rather goes into a bunch of ad hominem attacks about how dare I rant about Bethesda's business practices? I could be damned Kim Jong Un after having executed his ex-girlfriend for all it matters; that does not mean my arguments about Bethesda are any less valid. Who I am and what my goals are should be irrelevant to you so long as my arguments and points made are sound. I've presented a pattern of misdirection and blatant lying directly from the devs themselves, have I not?

So if you really think it's a "conspiracy," prove it to be one. As it stands now, every claim I've made holds true.

And again, my motivation? I hate seeing Skyrim be what it is; it's terrible in my opinion compared to Bethesda's past work. (all of them. Literally all of them) So yes, I'm going to complain and I have every right to complain about it until FO4 or TES VI comes out, at which point I'll either be letting out a sigh of relief that they turned things around, or I'll re-direct my complaints to those forums for being another let-down of lower quality. And regardless of my opinions in the matter, what I'm discussing with you is a matter of fact. It's a matter of whether Bethesda misleads it's fans or not, likely in the interest of higher sales. That we're -ACTUALLY- having a debate about whether or not the company known for the radiant AI claims of Oblivion is guilty of lying? That tells me blind fandom has hit an all-time high. Stop defending them. You have every right to defend them on game design or what-have-you based on your own opinion, but trying to claim they don't lie when clearly they do is tantamount to saying "Skyrim has the greatest game environment of all time and therefore it's combat, dialog, story and NPC interaction are all the best too." Just because you like the game and the company doesn't mean they didn't lie, and I for one am sick of watching people just let themselves be lied to as they try to convince themselves that didn't just happen because Beth best company ever, and sure enough it happens AGAIN next title. How about we work to improve the games, not encourage Beth to simply do exactly the same?

And can't blame the engine either, as i've been playing another developer's Gamebryo game lately and it hasn't nearly the same amount of bugs

Ahead of its time implies that it's so good and people at the time it was released didn't know it.

Skyrim wasn't even that good and everybody knew about Skyrim.

If anything, Skyrim was ahead of its time in a sense that it's released far too early, so yeah, your assumption is totally correct

I'm incline to agree with that. not that I've actually put it to the test to see if it does in fact raise the cost of Bows and arrows, but I'm willing to give on it.

The radiant quests are in sets of 10. What about it? Where is the developer's comment to suggest otherwise?

Several are. One being Mirmulnir. He is obviously scripted to the tower. Another being Alduin. Another is the Dragon in the Soul Cairn. These are obviously scripted. It is known that when you FT to a city that there is a high chance of a Dragon to attack. Is it "scripted" to happen every single time? No. It just has a high chance.

For the record, there are dragons that are aside from the random encounters and the spawned attacks on towns. They actively fly about the world. I have been hunting for them and have to chase them down, as they fly two cells away and eventually disappear.

If that many people call you out, I'd think that at least some are on to something... yes? Yes, I think so too. And for the record, I made a direct response to your statements.

... and I will do so again.

It is a rant about their business practice. I commented on the material you provided. The first link was a blog by... Mads Braas? Are you kidding me? So, yes I fail to see what a fan that exclaims to be urinating on himself can hold any credibility.

Now for you video... again. While, I admit again, that the mill / wood / products has not been observed. What does he say at the end of that little snippet?

"... you do have some impact on the world. We don't want it to become this game, like... you know... 'control the economy', but... '

Now I think we can take that with a grain of salt, no doubt. but is that single statement a real issue? Can it not just be interpreted as pre hype and not be dissected to outright lies? Doe it condemn the game? Is the general media not to blame just as much for taking this petty comments and running away with it? Did it truly ruin your experience?

I guess it did.

After all of that, you have only posted material for one of those 8 you listed. That in itself is misleading to give the illusion of a massive attempt to dis the public. that is utterly ridiculous. No matter how many times you fast traveled to meet a Dragon.

So, yes, i did address the linos you made earlier. I hope this to be the detailed response you so requested. I'm still waiting for support of the other comments you made.

You are the one that seems to think there is a conspiracy, not me. You think Beth is set out to mislead the public. One claim is arguable and the others have yet to be supported.

You're right. It doesn't matter. It matters so little, I just quit reading the last of it at that question.

On a forum for a game that isn't "that good" with a Skyrim avatar no less. Makes sense.

People complain about delays, so Bethesda hurries it up and gets it out. The people complain about quality. You must choose between speed and quality.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? Trying to look smart? Because frankly you just proved yourself unable to comprehend something called "context"

When I said "Skyrim wasn't even that good", it is in context of what I said before: "Ahead of its time implies it's so good". Compared to the level of good "ahead of its time" takes, Skyrim is not close to that. Skyrim is a good game, but not revolutionary good.

Easy there. While I do think the more nostalgic fans often don't give Skyrim the proper credit, the TES series itself earned legit stardom a long time ago.

Not a chance. TES just won best gaming series at Gamespot recently. It wouldn't have prior to Skyrim.

No no, that's where you misunderstand me. I'm not ranting about Bethesda; I know plenty of businesses who, if they see a chance to do something regarded as "unethical" but see it as profitable, they'll take it every time. Bethesda is no different and I'd consider myself naive if I expected them to stop solely on the grounds of being unethical. That you doubt that such things like Hines comments on Skyrim (there's more than just the economy included in that vid, btw) or the Oblivion preview vid were intentional? I can only call you naive; if they weren't intentional I'd expect them to clarify on such things as soon as changes were made, but of course they don't because doing so would hinder profits, thus they're dissuaded from doing so and told to focus on other matters.

I'm annoyed with the fanbase for being so quick to forget it all, blinded by the good qualities and convincing themselves to be loyal to Skyrim in every single aspect, devoid of any ability to criticize or think objectively and approach each issue one at a time, all in the name of some hero worship. Reminds me of when I was a kid or young teen and if, for example, I liked Kobe Bryant, then I'd immediately decide that he can do no wrong, and that he was innocent in that court case where that woman accused him of [censored] NOT based on the actual facts, but based solely on the fact that I like him. Skyrim and Bethesda both have plenty of flaws, good luck getting people to admit to either, because apparently liking either means a belief that they can do no wrong and that any evidence suggesting otherwise must be a mere coincidence or something.

It's right there, plain as day, yet you and many others want to deny that lies, misdirection and exaggeration took place. The lies, misdirection and exaggeration itself? I don't care so much about because I know this company, I'm not new to it and I know personally that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is, so pay their little pre-release interviews no mind. I have no reason to be bitter, nor am I, because I started following Bethesda at a moment that allowed me to recognize the lies before one caught me. What bothers me though is that it's like Bethesda can literally do whatever the hell they want and you guys will be apologizing for it as if it were your fault. "Bethesda didn't lie, it's our fault for hyping ourselves!" "Bethesda's writing isn't bad, it's our fault for not understanding what they were going for!" "Skyrim's combat isn't bad, we're just not truly appreciating the simplicity of it!" It's this frustrating little stance I find myself in where Bethesda is constantly given a pass on things they shouldn't get a pass on because people can't be objective. They can't figure out it's possible to support the company while simultaneously being able to call BS if they lie or stretch the truth.

And that attitude right there is what leads to decay. Look at Call of Duty. Everyone and their mother accuses them of releasing the same thing over and over, and yet everyone buys it. Lo and behold, that series doesn't move forward. Same exact concept here. You want the series to improve and move forward? Learn some tough love, stop with the hero worship.

Believe me, I have raised my fair share of issues with TES and FO alike. I am quite passionate about both and will defend both to the death. BUT... the focus of the issues should be with what actually needs attention. Like...

Questline diversity and stop the linear dialog selection.

Have consequences for your actions.

Bring back the complexities in character creation.

Bring back spellcrafting

... to name a few. This is what warrants merit for discussion. NOT some petty car salesman pitch. Read through the BS and get to the core of the issues. Leave all of that "oooh! he said this and she said that" on the damn playground. Express your woes on the meat and potatoes and not what color the tablecloth is.

Hero worship...

The annoyances for me, are a select few, and feel free to be included in that group, that EVERY single post is about how bad something is with the game. Not a single positive comment in the lot. There are members that participate in many discussions, help new members and actually enjoy the game. They continue to express their discontent for what they feel to be wrong and deserves attention to correct. Then we have the... others. The ones that do nothing but gripe and spew venom.

No one can see passion in a Negative Nancy. When everything is viewed as bad, why have an interest to start with? The way I see it... There are two types of people that purchased the game. Those that enjoy TES and those that are fishing for a platform of debate.

You and I read different forums. This is not at all what I pick up from reading these forums. What I read here is near-constant criticism of Skyrim since the day the game was released. I sometimes think that almost nobody here actually likes this game. Just let one person make a thread that attempts to praise something about Skyrim and it is almost immediately invaded by people who want to drown out any praise with even more complaints. I know quite a few Skyrim players who do not visit this forum because they cannot stand the incessant drumbeat of negativity they find here.

I am not blind to Skyrim's faults. I have voiced many criticisms of Skyrim over the past two years and I will continue to do so in the years ahead. I agree with all of the points Jesuis Cache-Cache lists in the post above mine, for instance. And I agree with many of the things you say too. But to portray the Skyrim forums as filled with Bethesda-worshiping apologists does not square with my experience of this forum at all.

Yeah, Zenimax is making ES online, you know they are just Bethseda's publisher, you know the people who give them money to make games, and they spent millions bulding some lame looking MMO, Im sure that wont affect development of future ES games at all, since its a completely different studio, where they grow money trees.

Bethesda Softworks is the publisher, Bethesda Game Studios is the developer of TES. Zenimax Online Studios is the developer of TESO. Zenimax owns them all.

The worst thing that could happen with TESO is that it's so popular that BGS makes two Fallouts in a row But in reality it goes free to play before Fallout 4 is released