We did not murder Nerevar. The legend that we murdered Nerevar comes from a story told by a shield-companion to Nerevar, Alandro Sul, who lived among the Ashlanders. The Ashlanders have retained Alandro Sul's account as part of their oral histories. The account is persuasive in some details, implausible in others, and is in any case false. I have two accounts of Nerevar's death here in my library. Read them, and judge for yourself.

FOUL MURDER! ALTADOON DUNMERI!


~The beginning of the words is ALMSIVI. I give you this as Vivec.

Come on, V-man, you already told us your mortal self killed him, while your god self didn't.

Dirty pool. Party foul. Unwise dot com. First/last warning.

Har

The Tribunal were evil (and insane) in my opinion... Almalexia was just much worse at hiding it.

I vote good. He did a lot of good things for his people, and i don't believe he killed Nerevar.

I hated his guts. To me he was stuck up, and a stick in the mud for lack of other pg13 words.

He did many good things, but simply because deep down he knew, that what he, Robo dork, and Almanutty, did will cause a chain reaction, down the road that will end very badly.
Oh, things like the Justice falling on their head.

I recently looked up on the UESP WIki site about what happened, supposedly.

Basically, while the Dissent Priests and Ashlanders say that Vivec/The Tribunal killed Nerevar, the Tribunal officially refutes this claim, saying that Nerevar either died in Red Mountan after his battle with Dagoth, or shortly after. Of note, most of the Temple-following Dunmer have this idea about it-

"Well, I don't think that Vivec killed Nerevar, but it happened so long ago, who's to say?"

I'll say that Bethesda did a great job at making this issue as ambiguous as possible...

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nerevar
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vivec_(god)

Those were the pages I got my info from. Of course, this is a Wiki, so any piece of info may not be correct...

Marss, you are right. Use http://imperial-library.info/ for sources of lore. The wiki has the problem of adding unfounded theories and stuff, or just get things from lore incorrect. Best to stick to the real sources, the in-game books.

Vivec was evil. All of his "acts of charity" were done for self-serving purposes. Take the Ministry of Truth for example: rather than simply saving Morrowind from the giant falling rock (which he obviously had the power to do) he stopped its descent and then blackmailed the population into loving him more in exchange for keeping it aloft. Hardly benevolent.

Most of his sermons deal with convincing people to listen to only the Tribunal, typical of any cult leader.

He murdered Nerevar for the same reason that Dagoth Ur fought him, he wanted to have unlimited power. I have a feeling that the only reason he even pretends to be nice to the Dunmer is because he needs their souls to power the Ghostfence, had Dagoth not tapped the heart as well Morrowind would most likely have been a complete totalitarian state.

While I agree with what you say in regards to why he stopped the rock and didn't destroy it, I disagree with his ultimate motivation. Yes, he stopped it so they would worship him more. But remember, the Tribunal uses worship and belief as fuel, and when more people believe because he stops the rock, that's more fuel that he can throw at containing Dagoth Ur. Hardly malicious.

Only as evil as any other person.

Still self-serving though: "You all had better love me and give me even more power, or I will smash you with this giant rock that I have so nicely paused above you". At least Dagoth Ur was altruistic in his deranged efforts.

Very true about Dagoth Ur. Even though he did corrupt people with madness, in the end the ones who worshiped him did come to him willingly. Not necessarily true with Vivec's Temple. I still think that Vivec isn't necessarily evil, just more of an "ends justify the means" utilitarian. Not too much of a jump from heartless to evil, but still...

Vivec was as evil as a bag of chips.

Sure, he may have been a [censored], but he was a [censored] with good intentions.

Whereas Almalexia and Sotha Sil were a deranged [censored] and a recluse, respectively.

Could someone refresh my memory as to why Vivec persecutes dissident priests but eventually acknowledges and assists the Nerevarine? I think I have a good understanding but I'd like to be sure.

Basicall, it was this.

"I need the belief of the Tribunal as infalliable gods to run the Ghostgate to prevent Dagoth Ur and his ilk from ramaging accross Morrowind. The Nerevarine Cult will take away believers, weaking the Ghostgate and making it more likely that Dagoth Ur will destroy Morrowind. Therefore, I need to crackdown on this cult to prevent that from happening."

He only relented when the true Nervarine came and started completing the Nerevarine prophecies left and right- at that point, Vivec would do more harm than good by continuing the Persicution, as the Nerevarine is the only one who could truly stop Dagoth Ur- and killing the One Person Who Can Stop the Great Evil tends to be a bad thing... unless you're the afore-mentioned Great Evil. Vivec and the other members of the Tribunal couldn't kill Dagoth Ur- at least without an amazing Feat of Will as it required destroying their source of divinity directly.

Depends on your definition of "evil".

Though he betrayed his trusting friend to gain his power, he used said power to better the lives of his followers. Ask yourself this: if he was willing to betray Nerevar, what else might he have done to ascend to Godhood? If Nerevar's life and final will meant so little to him, imagine how much value he places on the lives of his inconsequential followers. Vivec didn't use the tools out of pure benevolence - he obviously sought power and knowledge, above all else.

So, does the relentless pursuit of power make one evil? Not necessarily - it depends on how many lines they're willing to cross to get it. Whether or not Vivec crossed the moral event horizon is entirely up to the player. I know that, if given the opportunity, I would probably follow in his footsteps. It doesn't take an incredibly wicked mind to lust after power - it's a universal desire.

Because a Nerevarine claimant that wasn't tough enough to survive the persecution of the temple wasn't going to stand a chance against Dagoth Ur.

Given Boethiah's anticipation is Almalexia and Mephala's anticipation is Vivec, I wouldn't be surprised if Almalexia persuaded Vivec to kill Nerevar. She, if anyone, lusted for power and worship.

Too true. As heroic as the ALMSIVI were, their lust for power created the Dagoth Ur crisis and ultimately the descent of the Ministry of Truth (AKA Baar Dau) and the ultimate destruction of Morrowind, an event that won't have taken place if the ALMSIVI hadn't gorged on the power of the heart.

Sure they would have had to fight the Kamal, Dagon (only potentially) and Imperials without the aid of godly powers, but Morrowind would still be intact now.

Had Vivec not had divine powers, wouldn't the ministry of truth not been stopped and destroyed Vvardenfell years before?

The rock was thrown, because of Vivec offending the Daedroth with feats of this Divinity.

By the way, solid statement Camoran!
It all boils down to the consequences of said action. :thumbsup:

The blame should still rest more with Sheogorath than Vivec.

Rings true. But it's schematics.