For starters i think that this kind of complexity should be for all types of close-quarters combat.

If hand-to-hand is implemented in Skyrim the same or a similar way as Oblivion or Morrowind, i would have to be disappointed. I think that playing a hand-to-hand "monk" should be a more exciting experience. I just hope that the Bethesda Devs have been watching Bruce Lee movies.

Things I want implemented in Skyrim's hand-to-hand combat:

• Punching
  
• Kicking
  
• Tripping
  
• Grabbing
  
• Throwing
  
• Counters and Controlling Opponents Momentum to your advantage

Imagine someone attacking you with a left to right, top to bottom diagonal attack with their sword. instead trying to block the sword with your hands, your character sidesteps to the left, and guides your enemies sword into the ground with his left hand, throwing him off balance.While the enemy staggers, you give him a right-hook to the face.
^this is only one of many things that a martial arts master could do in that situation. (disclaimer: I'm no martial arts master, so i don't REALLY know)

I don't know how this would be implemented exactly, but i think the hand-to-hand skill should take a turn in this direction in Skyrim




BTW: the topic title is a Bruce Lee quote, sorry for those of you thinking this thread was about the water in Skyrim.

To complicated, your talking about a design team that said no to spears because of time restraints.

Agree 100%, especially with the combinations you can get with a shield, 1 handed weapon or spell. Sure you aren't going to smash through a steel chest plate with your bare hand but having lower damage but more mobility and speed, as well as versatility would make it really challenging AND fun, instead of just irritatingly hard to fight anything.

Unfortunately, like RevolverZarriel said, it won't happen fully in this game, the least I am hoping for is some improvements, rather than it just being gone.

I just hope we hand to hand monks get something. Be it magic or more techncal moves, just give poor Krillin something.

It'd take too much time to develop and implement. This isn't a brawler, there are other playstyles and combat styles that need to get implemented as well. Maybe kicking could be added for finishers or something similar, but I think it'd be ridiculous to ask them to recreate God Hand for one possible subtype of combat.

yeah... i think this kind of hand to hand would be way way cooler than spears though.

this would take forever.

Why did we need another thread about this?

Hand to hand shouldn't be more complex than combat with weapons (with each weapon, the argument of there are shield, two handed and dual wield didn't fit here). If armed combat has similar complexity I'm fine with it.

Yea I was scared for a second. I just saw the "outdated graphics" thread and usually that spawns a water thread.

I do agree that hand to hand needed a good overhaul. Hopefully Skyrim will bring it.

Real constructive... you know your just keeping it alive by posting in it.

I haven't seen many about this... or at least i haven't clicked on any, so i don't think that there are that many.

I think the old kick, punch, block should be used. But grabbing is something that has always proved useful in fighting in games. Assassins creed allows you to gain a little space by throwing an enemy away for a short time. And headbutting would be cool as a surprise attack if somebody gets too close to you. Either way, I definitely think that the fighting system could be updated past the usual punch and block technique. I think full martial arts would be a bit far, especially seeing as its a medieval style game. And I don't think Skyrim itself would be a place where martial skill is something that is practiced. Raw strength, on the other hand, is something that is played upon a lot, particularly for Nords. If the fighting was made much more brutal than OB, then it would make the experience of, say, a bar fight, or a thug trying to get some coin from you, a much more visceral experience, and would add to player values. It integrates the player into the game a whole lot more. I mean, Dark Messiah is a good example of the kick method. It was, admittedly, slightly flawed in it's approach, but it worked. You could kick people off of cliffs to plummet into rivers. And you could kick them down when they got tired in order to give time for a breather before going in for the kill.

Yeah, I really do think fighting hand to hand should be greatly improved, and I think it's something that people overlook, saying that weapons will always be available and such. Well, what if a situation occured where your weapon broke mid combat, and you needed to get out of a sticky situation. Well, disarming would certainly be a useful tactic to use.

I'm really hoping for some awesome H2H combat. I also make a monk character as one of my playthroughs and we need more than simple jabs and punches in H2H combat.

yeah, i agree. i added that point to the OP too.

i don't think i like the idea of martial arts per say considering this is a western rpg and a low fantasy nordic cultured world. but i would like more in depth hand to hand. like as you said, disarming, eye gouging (maybe as a finishing move), kicking, blocking, and countering on top of just punching.

You forgot knocking people unconscious!

There are western martial arts.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1177973-hand-to-hand/page__st__20__p__17429942__hl__hand+to+hand__fromsearch__1#entry17429942

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1171515-hand-to-hand-foot-to-face/page__st__60__p__17428856__hl__hand+to+hand__fromsearch__1#entry17428856

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1174094-hand-to-hand-combat/page__st__20__p__17349065__hl__martial+arts__fromsearch__1#entry17349065

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1172263-revised-close-combat/page__p__17293821__hl__martial+arts__fromsearch__1#entry17293821


http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1171888-martial-arts-anyone/page__p__17287673__hl__martial+arts__fromsearch__1#entry17287673




There are martial arts in ES, plus TES is high fantasy not low.

Yeah. Still not constructive. You're not really defending your point very well, only stating that people have talked about it before, and you happened to read it. Not everyone reads the same posts.

well yes by definition there are. but most of them are hybrids of asian martial arts and south american martial arts which originate in asia anyway.

Yes, but I think this thread is more in-depth than any of those, plus it has a poll :biggrin:. besides, some of those are pretty old.

again though, you're just keeping this thread alive. :dance:

I linked to a bunch of repeat threads, giving almost every opinion that has been thought up about hand to hand, how is that not constructive. Why would i need to to defend my point about repeat threads when I just linked to a bunch of them? the first link is from a thread that was even posted in today.

Because silly, if we didn't repeat topics you would never post anything (lol just kidding. Although if I linked many of your post from the "Your Content" page on your profile, most of them are either this or just simply "No" or a variation of "This is dumb."). As for your links:

#1: Asking if it should be nonlethal. An idea not really touched on before. More about nonlethal takedowns with H2H than anything else.
#2: Can we kick? A simple question with a simple answer.
#3: About a month old, no detail or extended discussion, ended a few days later with a little over 20 posts.
#4: About melee in general, it would help to read the posts before you link
#5: Over a month old, 1 page, basically asking, "Will it be fun or useful?"

What Liu Bei did (and always seems to do, as I have seen from his/her threads), is come up with actual ideas on how it could be improved, and requested real input to help flesh it out to what other people would like. All the others were asking a single question or about something else.

But you can find examples of totally western martial arts as boxing, savatte and greco-roman wrestling.

Thanks, that IS what i usually try to do with my threads. and I'm a "he" by the way

Or maybe they left out spears to work on the hand to hand combat