Well I understand that the Waterfall seen in the scene is not that great looking but can you point me to games that have made better "rapids"? I mean rapids not waterfalls or stream rivers couse the rapids are the most difficult thing to do and using real fluids in a game would kill the framerate ...

Here's ONLY the water from the trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtIbGcKW4JA
Watch this video and tell me the water looks "awful."

Actually, I think most people agreed that all the other types of water looked fine, but the rapids need much improvement.

Actually no. If you rifle through the original hate thread on water and the second one, the majority of the people thought the water in the rapids was indicative of all water in Skyrim. I'm not even kidding.

Also, I'll repost my times from the other thread if people want to look at all the water effects.





There we go. Though you forgot the waterfalls in Markarth.

OP the win is strong in you

Do people here have a water fetish or something <_<

Jeez. I don't know what people expect. This isn't Shrek, it's got to be rendered real time on five year old hardware - the same hardware Oblivion was developed for. So I think Beth have managed to squeeze some quite lovely effects out of it.

...I still think Morrowind's water was more watery though! It just felt wetter. (Oblivion water was like rippling plastic)

I was watching the trailer again and check out the water in this shot it looks amazing! it glistens and has spray and mist I think this is what the water is really gonna look like when we play it. Check out the video it looks even more amazing when its moving!
http://img695.imageshack.us/f/screenshot20110226at142.png/
for movie
http://www.elderscrolls.com/

i agree with xeivous it looks to be white water

Everyone here has a fetish of some sort:

* animations
* texture detail
* shadowing
* lighting
* ai
* terrain
* combat
* etc.

The list goes on and on. Everyone has something they are more passionate about than others. You shouldn't thumb your nose at people's concerns. To them, they are as real as your concerns.

Although many people may have been complaining about water in general, the majority of people's complaints was with that raging river. Anyone that has done any kind of white water rafting knows that that water didn't look like anything real.

One thing I did notice about the raging river was the water splashing up behind the small rock, right in front of the large rock, in the middle of the stream. I thought that was a nice touch.

Part 1: The Cave anolysis:
The water in the cave is outstanding, in my opinion. If they really have figured out how to get the water to do its own flowing and it isn't hard-coded, then that's awesome, because the dragon crashing animation illustrated that the terrain is slightly deformable (whether it's 100% deformable or whether it only deforms for dragon crashings is debatable (but there is in one picture of the Autumn forest an indication that one of the trees was broken and fell over, indicating further deformability)). So my point here is that if the water is indeed real-time dynamically operated, whenever we change the ground terrain in some way, the water may indeed change course. That could lead to all sorts of interesting discoveries and events (and possibly Quests requiring that) ... and that would be awesome.

Part 2: The Waterfall anolysis:
The water coming over the falls looks great, it's just missing something: particle animation... for a falls situation, it doesn't look natural to have these flat surfaces moving downward over rocks with no splash. They haven't put the splash factor in yet. So it's still a bit rough. I'm giving them credit and the time to complete their work. Maybe they hope we'll all say that the waterfall is good enough and if so, they won't have to code it any further. But I think it needs some finish work, some particle animations at the rock intersections and maybe the occasional leaping fish, to sell the illusion. Right now you can actually see the seams between the competing layers of animated water. Those seems need to get hidden beneath a small amount of particle spray and random jittering about, or wafting moisture clouds of some kind .... then it will be complete. I think they will do that. Give them some time. But also let them know, as I am right now, that it isn't quite finished yet. Keep going, Bethesda!

I agree the water looks great, I also happen to like the white water, I think the raging river looks great too.

This :hubbahubba:

There were trees like that in OB also, it means nothing.

Allright, i'll repost my compilation of all the water i can possibly see in the trailer, enjoy


http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/523/cathedralwaterfalls.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1628/windmillwithrock.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9804/infamousrapids.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7697/waterwheelontheleft.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7858/staffincavewateronright.jpg

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/4526/cavewaterfall.jpg

at 1:43 and 1:44, where the bandit guy is stabbed in the stomach i made two parts of the water behind - http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5169/banditkillpart1.jpg and http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7787/banditkillpart2.jpg


All in all water doesn't look all that bad

Well there are just two things I would change about this. I would change all instances of "Waterfall" with "Rapids", because that is what they are. Also, there are alot of water particle effects where the water "collides" with the rocks, you have to look closely. When your actually in the game, it will look more apparent.

Funny how the works isn't it? People were so eager to bash that shot of the river it's like they completely tuned out the rest of the trailer where water was shown. It was hard watching that previous thread go on as it did as you were trying so hard to show them what they were missing.

Its just water, never saw the big deal :/

Because you don't have time to replace it. Why else?

You guys need to get it out of your head that they can just polish this stuff up a few weeks before something. There is a timetable for doing that stuff, and if its meant to be done the last few months of development, why would they take time from doing something more productive? "Polish" is the last step of development.

Check out videos of there other games 9 months before release, they look like the finished product. People should not expect the game to look better on release, even on pc the difference will not be great based on the Fallouts(with out mods).

Though Oblivion was worlds of difference between the 360 version and the PC version. Mainly in the lighting, water and of course the AA and textures. Now we have even more goodies to work with, like better compatibility with AAA and possible tesselation if it supports DX11. So let's cross our fingers for DX11 support :icecream:

The scene you're referring to here, looks even more impressive in a slowed down version of the trailer. At half speed, it actually appears that the fire spell disrupted the waterfall slightly.

Indeed, if you have only a place holder for something, then the logical approach would be to show something that's at least probably in the state it will be when the game is released. And the cave water isn't THAT impressive, it looks better than the white water, yes, but it doesn't look like anything really special I haven't seen in other games, it isn't even the best example of a similar effect I've seen in a game. Regardless, though, what worries me most are actually the few shots of water that is not flowing quickly, as usually, games tend to be able to pull off such things better than rapidly moving water, yet that failed to impress as well. Take for example that one part with the horse and windmill in it. At one point you can see water off in the distance, and it's just ugly, just a flat blue surface, no definining features on it, but since it's distant, maybe the distant water doesn't look very good, but looking back at Oblivion, that game's distant water at least still had reflections, not very good reflections, but they were there, and I'm not seeing them here. And when you're game that's supposed to be a dramatic graphical upgrade over its predeccessor actually downgrades an aspect of graphics, you have a problem. But what disturbs me most is that one scene where a person gets killed on the banks of a river with some plant that looks like a Nirnroot in the picture. If you look at the image, it doesn't appear to be reflecting any of the surroundings, or really, doing anything that makes video game water not look terrible, and it looks like crap. There's no excuse for that mess in 2011, especially when Oblivion could do better. In fact, I'd go as far as to say Morrowind's water looked better, if this image is anything to go by, and I'm not talking about the Morrowind Graphics Extender water here, I mean the default pixel shaded water here. I enjoyed the trailor as a whole, but the water effects in it did not impress me at all. And if indeed the trailer is misleading and the actual finished product will be better, than I haven't been shown anything to indicate that, and if that's the case, then I am quite baffled as to why Bethesda would have chosen such terrible looking water shots for the trailer. If that's really the best they had, then why did they bother showing it?

And some might say the way water looks isn't important, but I disagree. If you want people to be impressed with you're games graphics, which Bethesda seems to, judging from all the talk about how impressive their new engine supposedly is, you can't just neglect one aspect of that. When you're graphics look good as a whole, one bad aspect is just going to stand out more painfully when I see it.



I didn't tune out the other parts where water was shown, I just wasn't impressed by them.

Its so simple to see that the water highlight in the trailer is just a rapid which is supposed to look frothy.
People don't even bother to look at other water sources or areas and just start whining.


All in all, I could care less about water, it could be oblivion looking for all I care.

Meh, I'm done posting in any of the water threads. No one seems to see the quality of the water even though Skyrim's ambient water in the calm rivers and in the caves are just as good as Crysis', not to mention people keep putting Skyrim's graphics on a pedestal of PC when this is the 360 version which won't have the reflections and not the highest quality water texturing as the PC will have and they keep comparing it to PC versions of games like Crysis when you can't cross compare a console game with highest detail PC game in graphics and expect the 360 game to win out.... So, yeah, last post I'll ever have in a water thread, if people don't want to see the truth and only have something to be negative about to give them sustenance, then go ahead. I think some people can only care for the game if they are enraged about it. So whenever someone talks them out of being angry about one feature, when new information comes out they have to get mad about something else.