Um i don't think i've seen rapids in any other first person game? Crysis didn't have them. From my memory Crysis had very still water. You guys need to chill water looks great.

While the water that we actually see falling is marvellous,the flowing water at the other scene looked somewhat bad,and specifically it's texture.

Check out the actual river water in the village scene with the hooded guy walking into the village and the river where the guy is getting stabbed in the gut. That's the ACTUAL river water in the game. The one everyone hates is white water rapids and is supposed to look like that, it isn't what actual flowing water looks like in Skyrim, just in that area. They did a good job trying to replicate white water rapids, which if you look at a pick of white water, they kind've look fake also.

Your right Oblivion pc version was noticeably better than the 360, but that came out 5 years ago, its much more realistic to base are expectations on recent games and the Fallouts do not look much different on pc, check the comparison videos. I myself was surprise how similar they look.

They had limited time to work with the 360 during OB development thats why the larger difference with OB, also did recent games even use DX10? Lets keep are expectations in check.

I love all these secret game developers on this forum, If you know how to implement ''better water'' Bring out your game and show us :rolleyes:

The water reflections have been disabled for performance. Even Oblivion had reflections. As Skyrim gets closer to launch, Bethesda will re-enable them.

Todd said that they will do as much as they can with the graphics later in development. Right now they are focusing on the game.

I'd stake my life on it that it has DX11 and if it doesn't I'd say their engine is DX11 capable so that will be the first mod I work on to allow the game to launch in DX11, but of course that's plenty of coding and then of course I have to work with tessellation from the ground up and write my own height maps and so on....uggh, it's going to be a long haul.

The water looks perfectly fine to me.

You have to expect this on this forum every time we get something new. We a get a trailer, it gets bashed about something...

Why would they re-enable them if they slow down performance?

They won't. They MAY put in partial reflections but there is no way they will be able to turn on full reflections on for the console version.

To give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt, they have lots of time to polish the game. If the issue is very vocal, they may give it more attention.

I think much of the water in the game looks very nice. I still don't like the rapids though. That is one of two issues I have had as of yet, and I'd say it's a minor one. But I think it could be fixed if they just gave it a more detailed texture, and perhaps more foam. I don't even know how the water works, so I'm not sure to what extent they can fix it. In Oblivion, waterfalls and the like were simple animated meshes you could place around. For all we know, they could be actual behavior of the water in this game, which adapts to water levels and the like dynamically. One game that I thought did water very well was Bioshock (and in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lrSq1wcnAI, more notably). I don't expect Bethesda to make quality like that, considering they aren't making a game with water as a primary feature (primary, as in pivotal to atmosphere as compared to snow and mountains) but it'd be nice to get something that's better textured, or meshes together well. Modders will end up doing it themselves, but it'd be nice if they could take the effort to make it so that we don't have to. That's a bad argument for most things, but when applied to the quality of the water, I think it works. At least this time we might not have to deal with body replacer mods

The water in the caves looked great. The rapids clearly aren't perfect, but even if that was the final state I wouldn't mind. The game is clearly significantly more attractive than Oblivion, and more importantly, the world looks like it will feel far more alive. Immersion while playing >>>>>>> potential screenshots.

This

Which console version? Both? There will be two console versions.

doubly post

They're going to be released at the same time, and Todd (edit: made it sound like Todd is single-handedly making the game lul) said he's going to make them as similar as possible. Don't expect there to be much difference between the two.

Didn't Todd say all three versions will be pretty similar, barring anti-aliasing and higher resolutions on the PC?

I hope there isn't much of a difference between the two console versions, though. Would they really turn a feature that slows down performance to a noticeable degree back on, though? I'd rather have the performance boost and wish they made certain features toggleable on the console versions... simply so I can get the boost in performance I want by turning off unnecessary features.

Water seems pretty nice. What are horrible are the rapids IMO.

Yes, the gripe was with the rapids.
Also, am I the only one that noticed the water flowing uphill over that rock in the cave scene? I hope they can fix that before release.

I think it looked good enough, sure it's nothing to write home about- but it's not bad either. What water lacks are integrated movements between one piece and another. Someone called it a conveyor belt and i think thats the best way to describe it.

First, I like your optimist spirit.

Second - you can really do that? If it comes to this point, to say we would all be very impressed and deeply in your debt is a terrible understatement.

I think the reason the white water rapids stood out to many of us is because we've never had a game of this scale try to make them for a small river. We've always had standing water, or a slow stream that never took the form of rapids. Now we have rapids, and they don't look perfect(I guess) and they stand out a little.

Personally, I love the fact that we'll have more than just standing water. Rivers, rapids, waterfalls, I'm loving the fact that beth is trying to make the water ways of Skyrim more realistic. It's beyond me how you can be upset with them for not only trying, but actually getting close to what white water rapids look like.

Not to mention, that's the http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8495/skyrim720p.jpg, broken the same exact way, as shown in a http://static.gamesradar.com/images/mb/GamesRadar/us/Daily/2011/02-Feb/11/Skyrim screens/Skyrim4--article_image.jpg. Occam's Razor: two separate shots of two different run-throughs at two separate points in development that happen to have the same exact tree dynamically broken the same exact way, or, it's a prefab mesh of a broken tree.

Looking at the white water rapids in that shot compared to real white water rapids, I think the biggest problem with the believability of it is that it is too uniform over too large of a section.

You know its amazing really. I can't tell you how many times I've watched that video, and not once did I notice that stream. Seeing it now, it looks superbly done. Good eye and good post Fearless.

Personally I don't see why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch about the water. The white water rapids shot looked pretty good to me, with only the misty splash coming up on top of the rock on the middle left side of the river looking a little weird. And the same goes for the waterfall in the background of the finishing move footage. It should froth, and mist with stark white tones like that. I mean just look at a picture of Niagara Falls.

The small river with the wooden water turbine churning through it, in the city setting shot with the guard and the hooded PC strolling down the street, looks absolutely spectacular. I know it goes by pretty quick and its hard to see, but the water has a really majestic sky-blue colour to it with ripples and threads of white carving across its surface, and a diaphanous cloud of white mist drifting up into the air behind the building--it looks amazing--just what a crisp, cold, fresh, northern river should look like.

Now I'll admit that the interior dungeon falls in the fiery magic blast part of the trailer and Markarth's big waterfalls aren't mindblowingly spectacular, but it's not like they're god-awful horrible either, and IMO they hardly deserve the intense scrutiny and criticism others are giving them.