All throughout fallout 3 and NV, my favorite armor has been the Roving trader outfit, it isnt very good armor and the bonus tends to not be great, but I love the look of it as my primary character tends to be a low tech sniper/scavenger and that fits very well.

With the news of weapon/armor mixing and enhancement, I'm hoping you can tweak "weaker" equipment in a way that makes it decent, without having to abandon its base look entirely. obviously it should take work to bring a light armor to anything near the protection a medium or heavy armor could offer and even then it shouldnt be THAT strong, or turn a rinky dink pistol into a decent weapon, but it would be nice to be able to choose a preffered armor or weapon model and make it usable for later in game.

On the other side, should "overpowered" equipment be left alone as an option or as a character building tool? as an example: in FO3 the chinese stealth armor completely and utterly broke the game, but in all honesty if you want to play fallout on easy mode and just bang it out in a day, thats your choice, and with difficulty settings and the general lack of difficulty of pre modded vanilla fallout games even on hardest difficulties, you really dont need these items in order to never face a challenge. But alas in NV, the armor took a heavy nerf.

The reason I would like these items kept, is because while yes they are broken, they are fun! and adds so much to replayability, I have played through FO3 alone more than a dozen times, one of those playthroughs I gave myself an infiltrator rifle, silenced pistol, officers sword and a set of chinese stealth armor through console commands (PC master race confirmed) and played as a supersoldier assassin, it wasnt a hard playthrough by any stretch, but it was some of the most fun ive had with fallout to date.

TL;DR should weak equipment be viable, and OP equipment stay a choice?

I feel you dude.

My favorite attire is Wasteland Surgeon Outfit and Red NCR Beret and I'm playing Melee on Very Hard. You can see how much harder it makes it dealing with Deathclaws and Cazadors. Literally 2 hit deaths. Using a standard Combat Armor 2 is fine but the hardest part is getting the Enclave armor in the Deathclaw peaks.
I hope FO4 will allow me to roam the wastelands wearing anything I want without too much risk of dying.

Put it on very easy then. Problem fixed.

I mean to use worthless armor and play on the hardest setting and then complaining about getting two shotted is low imo.

No need. I was actually able to clear The Fort with the Wasteland Surgeon outfit on.
It took me like 5 tries. But yeah. 2 hit deaths. Even harder because when any of Caesar's goons punches you it takes like 4 seconds to recover.

The key was positioning myself so if I ever got hit, I'd fall to the Arena where you fight the dogs so they'll never reach me in time.
It was a lot of fun actually...

Oasis hood and Regulator duster, OP I feels you hard on this one. Sometimes I wanna be low-key avg wastelander with a deadeye.

this is an RPG, getting better loot is what makes an RPG, an RPG.

if anything, they should make it HARD enough that you HAVE to get/use better gear and progress your character, IMO.

This kind of mechanic is starting to wane in popularity with every RPG and for good reasons: It forces players to move into a look they may not like just to stay cream of the crop. This is tolerable if appearance-change mechanics are free-form enough that players can wear whatever they want.

But the big reason is that it's a game of one square hopscotch. You start off with 100 health, and a dagger that deals 10 damage to enemies that have 100 health and deals 20 damage. The next upgrade takes you to 200 health and a sword that deals 20 damage, but the first enemy is no longer worth fighting and so you move on to an area with enemies that have 1000 health and deal 40 damage... The numbers may have increased, but you're still at square one. Worse, the enemy isn't guaranteed to do anything different from the previous opponent. This is exasperated by the fact that the next tier of enemy could have 2000 health and deal 80 damage, now you're pretty much f***ed if you try tackling that before you're ready - statistically.

And people are catching on to how shallow that game play is. Game play doesn't change, just the look of your character and numbers increase in scale, but the game is balanced around keeping a 1:1 ratio with that scale, regardless if you're level 1 or level 100. What DOES (hopefully) change are the number of skills your character might have, the selection of weaponry (all with different combat styles) grows, and hopefully, your enemies evolve to include new tricks, not simply beeline straight towards you and "auto attack" like the last 54208 enemies you've encountered. This system also has a frustrating habit of denying access to portions of the world based on your progress, as well as rendering previous visited portions trivial if not worthless to even visit again. What you believe "makes and RPG and RPG" isn't what makes an RPG at all - it just makes a sham of a game for gullible addicts to grind through, obtain the best of the best gear/level cap, ask "now what?" then bail for the next game only to do it all over again. Like hamsters in a wheel.

So really, if Fallout 4 actually tries to steer clear of requiring players to go from looking like a ragged wastelands bandit to someone dressed in something respectable just to remain competitive with all the crap that's scaling with their progress, or at least allows them to remain looking like a bandit even though they still need to find and equip that better, more snazzy gear, I don't think anyone's really going to complain. Except maybe the people that get their kicks out of one shotting hopelessly outmatched NPCs... but I doubt these people will be interested in that kind of activity for very long.

D&D, the original RPG, that follows this kind of thing says hi, and it is just as popular, if not MORE so, then it was back when it was first created. So does the fact that EVERY MMO that has tried something different has failed miserably.

It is not as simple as you clearly think it is, only bad games have it exactly designed that way.

Yeah, I'm with Littleman. I really liked how Skyrim handled it; stronger gear was still stronger, but you could still succeed in the game by upgrading weaker gear. Which changes the progression from loot-based to skill-based.

I agree with you to a point.

Yes I would like to those armor upgrades to feel more important, but fallout has never (at least to me) been about needing a certain quality of gear, most of the character upgrading has been through leveling skills and getting perks for combat skills.

Of course an assault rifle is going to serve you better than a 10mm pistol, but in all of fallout 3, and new vegas, at least the unmodded vanilla game, whether its on medium, or very hard hardcoe mode, there has very VERY rarely been a point where I found myself stuck on an area or against an enemy and had to think to myself "man, my armor/weapon just isnt going to cut it" now I have had to be craftier, sneakier, or downright need more ammo, but in the end, I can kill a deathclaw while wearing my naughty nightwear with a handful of scavenged frag mines and a varmint rifle.

But that's not the real point I was trying to make, I was wondering if with the new crafting and upgrading system for equipment, if I can pick a preffered outfit or weapon and work it into something that will still be relevant late game without needing to be acompanied by as much tactic to compensate.

Who knows, with the new system it may make gear more relevant than it has been in the past, but I would like to be able to choose what I enjoy using and upgrade it to a better standard than previous games have allowed.

I liked how Dark Souls did it. Every weapon or piece of armor was viable; some items were better than others and could make your life a lot easier while others would make your life harder. I think that level of freedom would be appreciated in a game like this. Min/Maxing should never be a requirement to be successful at a game and build variety should be encouraged... to an extent.

Obviously if you want to run around Deathclaws under-equipped, using just your bare knuckles wearing nothing but your underwear, I think you should run into some trouble unless you lower the difficulty. However, I think alternatives to dealing with the situation should also exist. Perhaps you are under-equipped, but you could also sneak around the enemy or find a way to take it out without relying on your equipment.

Power armor was designed to be 'overpowered'. Its Chinese counterpart, the Hei Gui Stealth Armor was built to be 'overpowered' in a different way. Weak weapons and armor shouldn't be viable later in the game; There's only so much you can do to a rusty zip gun and a dirty canvas jacket.

Difference of opinion is what it is, but man I hope that they do not follow your advice. I do like the idea that it should be harder, but not viable? No thanks.

Like the OP I tend to play a sneaky sniper type who wears minimal armor. Harder levels should mean panning my shots and escape routes better. Difficult yes, but not viable, no.

With the crafting system, as well as the layered armor system... it could, make weapons and armor that are weaker... much more viable in the long run.

The issue is that OP wants to have weapons and armor that still looks like low-level junk, but is able to perform at higher levels. Like I said before, there's only so much you can do with a rusty zip gun and a dirty canvas jacket. You could slap combat armor plates on the jacket, but that alters its appearance. You could improve the pipe gun to a certain degree, but it's never going to be powerful enough to kill a Deathclaw at range.

Just use Edit to make whatever changes you need. If you can play the game, you can use edit to make minor changes like this.

I do love me a roving trader's outfit, but my fave was merc troublemaker, i do like the idea of being able to tweak my outfit to get bonuses or more protection. On the other hand i hope we can get high end stuff and then take off to make it lighter, for looks etc? maybe keep combat armor boots with the cool steel toes on my leather armor lol:D asa gamer for years and years i used to min max etc on my characters, but when i discovered what rpg meant i took my own path and play the character any way i like.(not annoying player type to any gms out there!! but i wear what i like regardless of not having best armor, best weapon, best stats, my ego is ok with that)

It's a matter of degrees and some ability to suspend disbelief. In FO3 I ran around with a top hat using Lincoln's repeater. Lincoln's repeater was a great gun in the game but you had to suspend belief a bit that this 150 year old rifle was better than a modern automatic weapon. I do agree that a duct taped 22 should not necessarily be usable in the end game, but I also do not want to be forced into power armor. Just as in FO3 and NV, something in between would be nice.

For myself I want the red coat. Hope that is in the game and wearable. So I'm a sniper and I'm wearing a red coat ... did I mention suspending disbelief?

I don't think there's any reasonable way to do that with power armor. Power armor is supposed to turn infantry into tanks. In lore, it is a huge game changer. As for the weapons, we had armor-piercing ammo in New Vegas, which helped keep the Varmint Rifle viable until you could get real weapons.

im sry in all my unmodded play thrus of NV power armour was useless if took 2 hits for death claw to kill you in ranger combat armour you could put power armour on and still die in 2 hits in F3 i noticed i could take about two too three more big hits before dieing in power armour most of time wasn't worth the speed decrease.

everyone has different view on LCF(look cool factor) for armour there is no way beth every going even come close pleasing even just people in the thread in high level armour choices.

that being said now that theirs multi layer armour system maybe mixing and matching maybe will please alot more folks other than that wait for the GECK and mod it thats what its for.

im just glad they seem to making a real effort on options for weapons and armour this time around 700+weapon mods is more than the big mods for NV and fo3 together.

my 2 cents.

Yes.

(And yeah - it was disappointing when I had to move on from the Reinforced Leather armor in FO:NV, due to increasing power of attacks vs it's DT.)

Not every "RPG" is the same when it comes to loot.

Eh, in tabletop D&D, there was no "look" for anything but what you described for yourself. And a typical character would, yes, upgrade their equipment... by getting more magical plusses, not by switching to different types of gear. That chainmail-wearing dude kept wearing chainmail.... just chainmail +2. Or Elven chainmail. Or chainmail along with rings of protection. Etc, etc, etc.

And most MMOs these days have realized that people want to keep their "look" while still upgrading their gear, and have some sort of "appearance" system.

But like I said - not every RPG is the same / has the same priorities. MMOs and ARPGs (like Diablo)? Sure, total gear-upgrade-grind, that's what they're all about. Frequently to the exclusion of all else. But some games have little gear and have "progression" via stats & skills. Or have some gear progression, but it's not as important as quest resolution & story. Etc, etc, etc.

Skyrim's Smithing upgrade system was interesting, as it gave you more options - you could find better gear in the world and use it, you could craft better gear and use it, or you could improve your current gear and keep using it. Different paths to similar results. We'll see if the "layered armor" thing (along with +DR perks or implants, if they exist) in Fallout 4 gives similar options.

I don't think the http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/11723096/Fallout-4-interview-Bethesdas-Todd-Howard-on-building-the-apocalypse.html as they did in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. So if you want to wear something because it's aesthetically pleasing then it will make a lot more sense to just do that. There probably won't be any way to break the game. Just like you can't break Bioshock or Witcher 2 there probably won't be any equipment that makes you god like. My guess is that it will be like Witcher 2 in that if you have a tight focus selecting the right perks and gradually finding better weapon mods and armor you can feel like you have a powerful character. However, your armor will probably play a much smaller part in having a strong character than it did in Fallout 3. As long as you are doing other things you can probably wear whatever armor you want without too much of a penalty.

You will probably still die from time to time no matter what.

I wonder how the hell anyone will be able to play a Melee only character with the http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/11723096/Fallout-4-interview-Bethesdas-Todd-Howard-on-building-the-apocalypse.html. It will be possible, but a lot more difficult.

That sounds like what the OP's thinking on from my interpretation of it, and I do like the idea. I pretty much became a fan of the concept with Lord of the Rings Online since while the good gear I've got my characters wearing look like they've run amok blindfolded in the clearance racks, I've got cosmetic pieces overlaying so my hunter looks like she's wearing tanned leathers and thick furs rather, or my loremaster in robes that say "Competent Caster".

There's been some armors that I really liked the look on in the Fallout games but had to set them aside for better statted gear with the hope that some better yet gear later on would resemble the armor whose look I liked.

I agree with you on this.

Anoher reason why I'm not a fan of that system is this:

In real life, the most skilled don't always have the best gear, and those who svck don't always have crappy gear. Example: Some rich idiot who can afford the best gear but whose comparatively sheltered life makes them very inexperienced. Or a seasoned bandit boss who knows it isn't smart to walk around wearing things that others might want to steal.

Also, let's say I (as in I, myself, with my nonexistant combat experience) am suddenly attacked by a bunch of super mutants. If I have a Super Awesome Mega Gun I can probably kill one or two, but not all, because my aiming isn't going to be great, and the surviving ones would mow me down before I've figured out how to reload the thing. Equipment matters, but a newbie has a higher risk of making mistakes even with good gear and a veteran has training and experience that helps them even if they have bad gear.

Also, the items that look the most fancy aren't always the best, because some items are made for show rather than actual combat.