1. The Gotlung has a 2 second spinup time yet the Eustone does more damage and DPS.
2. Both heavy machineguns are matched in damage and DPS by the CARB-9 SMG which can be wielded by a LIGHT.
3. The Hjammerdeim does less damage per shot than the Mossington.
4. The Lobster can knock players down while the EZ-Nade cannot.

Tell me again why I should play a Heavy and give up so much mobility for a laughable 40 extra HP over a Medium and inferior weapons whose only plus is large ammo per magazine?

I play as a heavy and I am enjoying it VERY much... o.o Even though my primary is a light, the heavy is fun!
Try using the Maximus... It's a great gun in ADS's and hip-fire Make sure that you're NOT using a suppressor, and using a scope is a plus.
The Carb has terrible accuracy... Gotlung is great for pinning down considering it's huge mag and wide spread, but yes I do agree that the damage is a bit too low...
EZ is for laughs :\ Don't really know why it's there... But still fun to use from time to time.

I don't grade that hard upon these games so, yeah... Please don't start poking fingers at me for STILL enjoying the class even if there are problems with it. I have low standards ._.

1. If you hold down ADS, the minigun barrel will continue to spin, saving the start up time.

2. Carb-9 loses damage over range. It is already a pea shooter at mid range. The machine guns don't lose damage over range. The chinzor is king in close range. Much better then any SMG, although it does lack in range. The Maximus has decent accuracy and stability at range, so you can snipe with this weapon. ... Also it is a given that MGs also have larger ammo capacities.

3. The Hjammerdeim holds more bullets, has a much faster reload time, and auto fires 2 shots. The trick with this gun is to aim low with the first shot and the second shot should hit the face from the recoil of the first shot. ... or you can go traditional and just aim at the head and go boom. This shotgun is better for crowds imo.

4. EZ-Nade knocks over with a direct hit. The EZ-nade also detonates on impact and can fire 6 grenades relatively quickly and on full auto.

I enjoy the Heavy, despite the glaring balance issues, as well. :thumbsup: I just want the issues fixed.

Stats are nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Depends on how you can use the gun. Your problem with the shotguns I just..... Wow.... It's an AUTO SHOTGUN it's NOT SUPPOSED TO 1 SHOT ANYTHING. The gotlung is a force of nature in small areas. I don't care about how other guns kill me, I care about how I can use my gun to kill them first. Be happy for the balance in this game. Others seem to forget the definition of balanced.
Your taking it SO much for granted

Someone using a Eustone will kill YOU first, all the while maintaining better momentum. The Eustone does 1 more damage than the Gotlung with the same rate of fire!

Also, I'm sorry, but, I find your attitude of "the facts don't matter, raw numbers are for nerds" hilariously ignorant. :shakehead:

EDIT: And my problem with the Hjammerdeim is that it takes more shots to kill making its extra ammo and 2 round burst utterly pointless. It's completely equal to the Mossington except for the fact that the Mossington is superior vs lights... Why should I give up mobility for a weapon that is equal to inferior when compared to a weapon much more mobile mediums can wield?

IT
MAKES
NO
SENSE

Actually the EZ-Nade does have a knock down effect, it just takes 2-3 grenades to do it. Despite the heavy weapons glaring shortcomings they are still my favorite ones in the game.

Heavies are not designed to be unstoppable, quit thinking they are. A heavy with a gotlung and a medic backing him up is dangerous indeed. If you understood that the weapons with enormous ammo capacity are designed more for the ability to fire continuously and keep the baddies from doing anything than killing, you might actually enjoy playing heavy.

WHOSE raw numbers are you using?

I haven't used the Gottlung much myself, but as a Chinzor-armed heavy, I can cut through other players pretty consistently in close-quarters.

Also, if you don't just mash/hold the fire button on the Hjammerdeim, you can sustain a good rate of fire with knockdown in point-blank, and hold several players down long enough to kill them. And if you're running through corridors with your view on the right angle, you can two-shot a moderately-buffed Medium in about as long as it takes for the Mossington to one-shot a less-buffed Light. DOuble-fire with the Hjammerdeim isn't QUITE instant, but it's not far off.

IMO Maximus is pretty decent if not the best. It is pretty good with hip-fire and good with ADS...

To me it feels like the right weapon for the Heavy to use
Of course I indulge in a little bit of gotlung just for the epic fire rate and good pinning down

Backed up by a medic? What are you talking about? This isn't TF2, there is no medgun, there is no healbotting. Also, with the inclusion of drum mags, ammo capacity is not a huge pro for the heavy weps, certainly not enough to give up alternate routes and a ton of movement speed.

Should a heavy be unstoppable? No. Should heavy weapons do more DPS than SMGs and ARs? Absolutely!

http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/

This guy has been providing raw #'s extracted directly from games for the communities since COD4. You can also see them on the brink wiki, though they are just taken from Den Kirson.



The Chinzor and Gotlung both have a 909RPM firerate. As do the Euston and CARB-9... Yes the Carb-9 and Eustone have the exact same rate of fire as a minigun. :down:

Why? Because they are bigger? Why does it have to do more damage? Who said? Did you design the game? The heavy weapons have specilized uses... you dont like that idea... fine. But just cause you want them to do more damage cause they are "bigger" does not mean that is the balance SD wanted from them.

maybe they ment them to specificly be used in a full team aspect... 1 heavy with 2 mediums with the right weapon and class makeup can be a real nightmare... much more so then just 3 random lights all with SMGs.

Add larger mag to that = perfect for pinning down? o.o?

Sure Chinzor and Gotlung both have the same fire rate, but who cares?

Meh, to me I like the heavy class, I'm not very picky unlike other people...
Honestly, go and try to enjoy the game...

Giving up mobility and map access for a higher ammo per magazine count would rank as the most [censored] design decision ever, so I really don't care if that's "what SD intended". Being the developers doesn't shield them from being called out on poor design decisions(See; the reviews).

If the pros of being a heavy consist of having enough HP to survive 2 extra Carb-9 shots and having enough ammo to hold down the fire button for 5 seconds longer then no one will play them in anything but pubs for laughs.... and gee, would you look at that, high level play consists entirely of lights.

Mobility is worth way more than SD seems to understand.

Yeah, thought so.

Based on independent testing on PS3, the raw numbers Den Kirson produced are provably inaccurate, at least as far as the PS3 version is concerned. And according to him, certain attachments which are relied on by a good number of competitive players literally have no effect on the numbers, meaning no effect on gameplay, meaning competitive players would never use them. Except that those same competitive players ARE seeing a difference when using the "useless" attachment.

My guess is that he's missed a series of variables somewhere which aren't as easy to access, and is working from incomplete data. For Rate-Of-Fire, I'm PRETTY confident there's a "base" rate of fire for every weapon CLASS, and each individual weapon has a separate variable applied to that which adjusts that figure appropriately, and the stats shown on that site are missing some of the individual variables for the weapons, making their fire rates all look the same when they're actually not.

Your string of what-ifs don't mean much unless you can provide more tangible data than he has. Sorry. :shrug:

Of course developers could clear all of this up by just putting the real damn stats in the games. We wouldn't need to rely on data mining in the first place. :banghead:

How about testing the damage difference between point-blank Mossington/Hjammerdeim headshots and bodyshots for yourself.

You'll see a tangible difference in spite of those numbers saying otherwise.

Also, there's another link I've seen where the same guy states that either front grips or muzzle brakes (don't remember which) have no effect on weapon accuracy or stability. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1193903-testing-magazines-and-accuracyspread/ Yeah. Thought so.

Enough tangible data for you? I DON'T have exact numbers, but I have evidence that his conclusions aren't based on complete data.

I'm pretty sure muzzle breaks help with stability, I use them allege time because I find them to be of big help. From personal experience I see otherwise. The muzzle breaks do help.

Now I agree here. but none of this says we need more damage on the heavy weapons. You are treating 2 issues as 1. Your arguement in essense is NOT that the heavy weapons are weak... its that there is little reason to play a heavy other then for some pubbing fun.

We agree... but we disagree on a way to fix it. I think the heavy does not need more fire power... but more staying power. Extra ammo clips, more then a single shots worth or extra health etc... we do not need MORE damaging weapons its already coming clear expectially in competitive play that the guns kill things fast as is.


So fight for a better reason to use a heavy rather then "more firepowa!"

That's my point.

The raw numbers people have provided about them say they DON'T.

That link proved they DO. As does your experience. As does mine.

Which proves that we don't have all the data the game uses, so we can't trust the data we do have to make full assessments of weapon functionality.

In-game testing is more reliable than the stats people have been working from.

I'm sorry, but with all respect, you moan about weapon balance but are solely complaining about the Heavy weapons.

In that regard, I must ask why it would be so much better balanced if the class with the biggest health also had the largest damage weapons?

I use the Gatling on my Heavy character whose only a level 7 or something and it tears through groups of people.

Because he is the slowest and has access to less of the map. It's pretty darned simple, really. The added health is minuscule; you can survive two extra shots from a weapon that fires 909RPM. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.



I like to advocate for buffs, not nerfs... But maybe if people feel that too much damage is flying around as is, maybe the Eustone and Carb-9 need a nerf.

I'd rather read what everybody else has to say and learn from others' experiences with other guns, but I must ask: don't heavies have access to pretty much as much of the map as everybody else does? I thought they just had to take longer routes around and that there were only a handful of places only lights can get to.