Yeah. There are leftover -6 DT bypass effects that are not assigned to the ammo anymore. I asked Josh at one point about it and he responded what I posted above. I'm gonna look really close at the 5.56mm and .308 after the patch to see if they got reapplied.

-gunny out.

The .308 may indeed have a higher amount of energy, but I've seen M855 crack a SAPI and hit soft tissue. I was confused by this, so a buddy and I did some tests and found that a .308 only chipped it and smushed into it. We then attempted to replicate the M855 conditions to match what we saw in Afgan (it was an AD at about 30 mtrs.) and behold! A cracked SAPI plate. So indeed, there are some non-AP 5.56 rounds that penetrate armor plate better than .308 ball. Physics gets pretty funny when it comes to extreme speeds.

I remember the topic, I was the one guy who voted 'I don't know'. Too busy sitting on the fence to be roundhouse kicking anyone. Now, I'd lean towards a 'yes, there is such a thing as too many weapons'' vote I think. Options are nice and all, but they need to be meaningful.

So now I have the ability to be a more powerful walking tank basically.

Great, we didn t need any help the NPCs do.

I was hoping weapons "balance" ment cl woul get higher conditioned weapons.

Why would they think we need help?? The guns were fine the way they were. ooooohhhhhhhhhh man what are they doing?

And hard numbers are for ammo penetration are even harder to come by. For my penetration numbers I used a simple formula of energy over cross sectional area, modified that for bullet construction and design to get my DT bypass numbers. Are they completely realistic? Probably not. Are they more realistic, ie: believably realistic, than what NV originally had? You betcha.


Give it some time to see if it's a good or bad thing before you judge it. I feel the opposite you do. I thought they needed a ton of work. It'll definitely be harder going up Black Mountain now.

-Gunny out.

They need to give Legionarries some sort of natural DR and give them higher tier weapons like the khans use (Trail Carbines and 10mm SMGs) for them to be a real threat.

We arent gonna be more powerful, read carefully, some weapons and explosives needs to be buffed, and other are gonna be nerfed
The latest balance patch nerfed the Sniper Rifle and others weapons, so this patch help, ALOT

Yes they should have a built in dr, because they r in really good shape. I m sure they had to have come across better guns in AZ.

You read carefully the only thing reall nerfed is the lever action weapons.... more spread. Thats what cl use the most.

Says Sniper rifle will get less spread. That means more chance to hit target. They really didn t nerf anything. They almost made everything better. The npcs stuff is about to break. That stuff won t help them... It will only help us....... We don t need help. AHHHHHHH why do I care???????

I d be fine with it if I needed the help. The NPCs need help in every way. Look at them.......

"Balence" ???????? They need to check the definition

You understand that at 0.1 spread, and below, a weapon is just not going to miss much on torso shots at max PC render range. If Obsidian did fix the animation bug that causes leaver-action weapons to shoot high they'll be getting a boost this patch. It's unlikely the Bethesda bean-counter in charge would ever authorize the funds to have this fixed. A programmer's time costs money and that lowers the quarterly statement.

I would love to hear the reasoning behind some of the changes. Shotgun and 5mm ammo changes both make no sense at all. Hell, the leaver-action shotgun using magnum buckshot is already pretty awesome and it needed a boost? The "Shotgun surgeon" perk and a sneak attack already blows through 15DT with ease with buckshot. Maybe in Obsidian's eyes all weapons must do the same in all roles equally well with little difference between. Sounds boring to me, but whatever.

Maybe you should check "you" definition of balance, because they are working in a company where the term "balance" is just one of the many terms that they ALREADY know to make a patch,the weapon balance also goes for the NPC, not only for us, If you give Boone the nerfed or buffed weapon. he will do the same damage as you using the same weapon
Nothing is powerful. just buffed because either they got nerfed badly or they didnt have the right power in the first place

5mm back quite a bit of powder in there, since we don't really know the dimension of the 5mm, it could be a something like 5x45mm.

Besides, it set the 5mm weaponry apart from the SMGs.

If I am complaining, it would be why change "That Gun" from a compact well rounded 5.56mm to a hand cannon? why can't Josh make another weapn by enlarge it, put 7.62 in it and name it "The Gun"?

:shakehead:

7.62 in a handgun would need a strength requirement of 10. :whistling:

The weapon stat changes are universal. That is, they apply to both your character and any NPC's that use them as well. Now, whether npc's use any/many of the weapons being changed is another matter. Early NCR use service rifles, so they should be affected. Any NPC who likes to toss grenades will be affected. And so on. So while you do more dmg, they do too...and it can make a difference in terms of how careful you have to be in not getting hit.

Yes, but Legion does not use any of the weapons they are buffing, besides frags, and instead use lever actions, which are receiving a nerf.

Chainsaw get a buff

If they are going to nerf the Legions main weapon, the Cowboy Repeater, they should at least buff Legionaries, give them natural DR, higher END, higher STR, and higher tier weapons such as Trail Carbines or 10mm SMGs, make it so more of them spawn with guns or Rippers or Machete Gladius's.

I just hope they put as much effort into fixing bugs as they put into yet more fiddling around with the guns.

Fiddling around with explosives is okay, though :biggrin:

Item condition has no impact on NPCs. Try giving your companion a near broken set of combat armor (DT 8 for the player) and a set of fully-repaired reinforced leather (DT 10 for the player). The companion will equip the combat armor (because it has higher base DT, which is all they track). Then, to prove that they actually have DT 15 (base for combat armor) take some potshots at them with a weapon that does between 10 and 14 damage (with no DT modifications). You'll see that little red shield pop up every time unless you crit.

Item condition on NPCs only matters from a loot perspective.

True enough, which is why I said 'whether they/npc's use the weapons being changed.'


One minor issue with that is that if you make the Legion stronger in those ways, then you also have to make the NCR stronger, because of some of the encounters/scenarios where Legion/NCR may fight, or those scenarios will become unbalanced towards Legion. Which means you have to change other things, and so on down the line.
This was made clear in an early version of the Increased Spawns mod, where initially the extra hordes of Legion were wiping the floor with the extra hordes of NCR because of extra hit points and weapon upgrade issues. Or something. It was very unbalanced in terms of NPC vs. NPC.

The NCR is already getting buffed, the Service Rifle is finally going to be worth a damn.

Forgot the legion used the cowboy repeater ohh well more for me to eat i suppose.

That all depends on how high they raised the ROF. If, since they're using the marksman carbine animation, they boosted up to, say, 6 sps, then yeah, that'll rock. Even getting it up to 3-4 would be ok. Losing some DAM is gonna hurt a bit, but it'll just make you use the correct ammo for the target. Hollow points and AP FTW.

-Gunny out.

I don't think the service rifle will be very good it's main problem was that i couldn't penetrate any decent DT so lowering the damage is just nerfing it even though it's getting a pretty stupid rof increase oooh it's gonna pwn sick skillz xxx (in the style of a cod lovechild).