Weapon balance changes

Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:19 pm

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181744-balance-changes-in-the-new-fnv-patch/. In case you didn't notice the sticky at the top. I like what I see so far. It seems as though they've done much of what we had been asking for, with the notable exception of DT reduction for 5.56mm and .308. Thanks to Josh, Jason and anyone else who put the effort into this.

Edit: I wonder if the pre-order weapons have been included in the form lists for the perks that should apply to them? IIRC, pre-order weapons, e.g., Sturdy Caravan, would not gain the bonus of perks like shotgun surgeon. I'm not sure, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here's the list of changes:
Spoiler

Guns:


?Automatic Guns - SMGs, the Assault Carbine, and the LMG are more accurate across the board. They're also more durable. 12.7mm SMG mag capacity increased to 21.

?Shotguns - Buckshot has received a x1.2 inherent DAM mod. This slightly incentivizes using buckshot over slugs when enemy armor is not an issue. Magnum buckshot has a x1.3 DAM mod and a small amount of DT bypass. Spread for many shotguns has been lowered.

?Hunting Rifle, Anti-Materiel Rifle - Hunting Rifle and AMR now have the lowest spread of all rifles. Hunting Rifle RoF increased, Crit Chance set to x2. Anti-Materiel Rifle's Crit DAM has been raised from 80 to 110 to make it more viable when compared to the Gobi.

?Sniper Rifle, Gobi Campaign Scout Rifle - Sniper Rifle and Gobi now have a higher RoF and lower AP cost. Both have x2 Crit Chance. Gobi has increased DAM and much higher Crit DAM over the Sniper Rifle.

?That Gun - That Gun is now a slow-firing hand cannon that does huge DAM firing 5.56mm out of a short barrel.

?Hunting Revolver – Rate of Fire increased.

?Service Rifle - DAM slightly lowered, firing animation changed to the one used by Marksman Carbine, RoF dramatically increased. Spread decreased.

?Silenced .22 Pistol, SMG - Crit DAM and Crit Chance significantly increased.

?5mm Ammo - Base ammo has 10 points of DT bypass. AP variants have 25 points of DT bypass. This affects the Assault Carbine, Minigun, and CZ57 Avenger.

?.308 JSP - DAM mult reduced from x1.5 to x1.3. x2 CND degradation effect added.

?Lever-Action Rifles - Cowboy Repeater, Trail Carbine, Brush Gun - RoF has been slightly reduced, AP costs have been significantly increased, and spread has been slightly increased. Cowboy Repeater Custom Action RoF increase has been reduced. La Longue Carabine spread has been significantly lowered.



Explosives:


?Dynamite - Larger explosion radius.

?Frag and Plasma Grenades – DAM increased.

?25mm Grenades - Slightly increased DAM on the explosion.

?40mm Grenades - Significantly higher DAM on the explosion.

?Missile Launcher / Fat Man - Now have much better zoom FoV and good accuracy. Missile and Fat Man projectiles (not the explosion) have a large base DAM. Both are extremely effective on direct hits, but still potent even if a direct hit is not scored. N.B.: Listed DAM on weapons assumes a direct hit!


Energy Weapons:


?Gatling Laser - Base DAM is higher. Against heavily armored targets, this is still a poor weapon. Against lightly armored targets, especially with Over Charge or Max Charge ECPs + Focus Optics + Laser Commander, it has extraordinary DPS.

?Tesla Cannon, Tesla-Beaton Prototype - These now consume far less ammo per shot and can be fired several times before a reload. DAM is beefy with an additional 2 second DoT.

?Pew-Pew - Lower ammo capacity, consumes far fewer ECs per shot. Still a two-shot weapon.


Melee and Unarmed:


?Ripper, Chainsaw, Thermic Lance - DAM lowered, all ignore DR/DT.

?Bladed Gauntlet, Mantis Gauntlet - Ignore DR/DT flags removed (were not supposed to be marked as such). Mantis Gauntlet animation/sound fixed.


Perks:


?Splash Damage – Functions properly.

?The Professional - 10mm Pistol, SMG added to perk list.




-Gunny out.
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carla
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:32 pm

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1181744-balance-changes-in-the-new-fnv-patch/. In case you didn't notice the sticky at the top. I like what I see so far. It seems as though they've done much of what I had been asking for, with the notable exception of DT reduction for 5.56mm and .308. Thanks to Josh and anyone else who put the effort into this.

-Gunny out.


I'm liking how they beefed up That Gun. Can't wait to see what it can do
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Brandi Norton
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:12 pm

Those changes are looking good! :thumbsup:
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Emma Pennington
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:44 am

Bison: YESH, YESH!!!!
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Melis Hristina
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:10 am

Multiple shots with a Tesla Cannon?! Awesome!. I can't wait for this patch.
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Michael Korkia
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:36 pm

Multiple shots with a Tesla Cannon?! Awesome!. I can't wait for this patch.

First glance to me seems like they focused on trying to make a lot of the weapons that weren't gettin' much love more attractive to use. There seems to be a ton more reasons to use most of the weapons listed above now. The question is: Are the changes going to make some of the weapons we're used to using alot much less attractive (with the notable and obvious exceptions of the lever guns. I'm pretty sure they'll still be very effective even after the changes)?

-Gunny out.
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helliehexx
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:44 pm

I dunno, the Telsa-Beaton is my weapon of choice anyway. If it multi-fires, then I am going to be IN HEAVEN.
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Natasha Biss
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:14 pm

Definitely liking these changes.
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Annick Charron
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:32 pm

I dunno, the Telsa-Beaton is my weapon of choice anyway. If it multi-fires, then I am going to be IN HEAVEN.

Tesla cannon beaton was my special occasions weapon but i think im gonna have a love explosion now.
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lexy
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:32 pm

Definitely liking these changes.

A lot of these changes are things I've already modded into my game, and I love the way the guns work with my mod. For instance, the additional DT on the 5mm rounds absolutely make the minigun and the assault carbine beasts. Beasts, I say. I recently cleared Black Mountain using the minigun and AP ammo. It was indiscriminate butchery, I tell you. I also increased the spread and lowered the ROF on my lever-guns, and they still work just dandy, so cowboy gun fans shouldn't have to worry too much.

-Gunny out.
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Marcin Tomkow
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:49 pm

A lot of these changes are things I've already modded into my game, and I love the way the guns work with my mod. For instance, the additional DT on the 5mm rounds absolutely make the minigun and the assault carbine beasts. Beasts, I say. I recently cleared Black Mountain using the minigun and AP ammo. It was indiscriminate butchery, I tell you. I also increased the spread and lowered the ROF on my lever-guns, and they still work just dandy, so cowboy gun fans shouldn't have to worry too much.

-Gunny out.

Well it seems that you should just make the patches from now on, hat off to you sir, I have always wanted the minigun to be stronger. :celebration:
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Alkira rose Nankivell
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:46 pm

First glance to me seems like they focused on trying to make a lot of the weapons that weren't gettin' much love more attractive to use. There seems to be a ton more reasons to use most of the weapons listed above now. The question is: Are the changes going to make some of the weapons we're used to using alot much less attractive (with the notable and obvious exceptions of the lever guns. I'm pretty sure they'll still be very effective even after the changes)?

-Gunny out.


I'm not too sure about that; seems to me like the Lever-Action rifles will be a lot less useful, considering they'll have less DPS, less use in VATS, and decreased accuracy (I'm hoping the Gobi might be able to return as my main sniper weapon, but right now, I use the Scope Trail Carbine). Also, I was disappointed to see that the Plasma Caster or All-American didn't get buffed. Other than that, though, I'm looking forward to what That Gun, Tesla-Beaton, Pew-Pew, and the new shotguns can do.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:50 am

--Sniper rifles etc....I'd modded it so they were at x2 already, and I've liked that. The RoF increase is also intriguing. I've played around with that a lot myself and...hm, we shall see!
--That Gun...I just might try it again.
--Increased dmg grenades...hehehe, awesome, that could potentially make the Increased Spawns mod even MORE chaotic/fun.

Overall, some nice changes for the vanilla game...at least on paper. We'll see how they fare in actual gameplay. It's enough to probably inspire me to fire up the game again when the patch is released, cause I like to fiddle with things. :)

First glance to me seems like they focused on trying to make a lot of the weapons that weren't gettin' much love more attractive to use.

Agreed. (edit) time for me to prepare the files/games/mods for patching.
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Juliet
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:23 pm

Seems an all round epic patch thanks.
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electro_fantics
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:49 am

Why is .308 JSP getting nerfed? Why god, why?
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:50 pm

I wonder, if along instead of weapon changes they could adjust the skill effects and the levelscaling potential.
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BEl J
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:12 am

I'm not too sure about that; seems to me like the Lever-Action rifles will be a lot less useful, considering they'll have less DPS, less use in VATS, and decreased accuracy (I'm hoping the Gobi might be able to return as my main sniper weapon, but right now, I use the Scope Trail Carbine). Also, I was disappointed to see that the Plasma Caster or All-American didn't get buffed. Other than that, though, I'm looking forward to what That Gun, Tesla-Beaton, Pew-Pew, and the new shotguns can do.

There is no way that they increased the spread and reduced the ROF as much as I did in my mod, and even with the numbers I'm running, the lever-guns still work real good. You'll still get the cowboy perk to spice 'em up and the hand loads, too. You'll be fine, trust me. And you'll really like La Longue Carabine much, much more.

Why is .308 JSP getting nerfed? Why god, why?

Frankly, I always thought the additional damage was too high. A jacketed soft point bullet will expand, but no where near as much as a hollow point. Also, there's gonna be significant reduction in armor pentration. Be thankful they didn't add DTx2 to it like I did in my mod. They did add the x2 condition multiplier, since as a hand load, this round is hotter, therefore like the other hot rounds in the game it should also increase weapon degradation.

-Gunny out.
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:18 pm

5mm is now OP. Rest is fine.
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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:52 pm

Finally shotguns are useful past 5 feet range. And they buffed 5mm good. Almost too good. Miniguns are gonna be dangerous.
Oh well, time to kiss uber cowboys goodbye. Lever action rifles got the nerfbat worst. Time to take my hunting rifle out of the trunk again.
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*Chloe*
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:17 pm

There is no way that they increased the spread and reduced the ROF as much as I did in my mod, and even with the numbers I'm running, the lever-guns still work real good. You'll still get the cowboy perk to spice 'em up and the hand loads, too. You'll be fine, trust me. And you'll really like La Longue Carabine much, much more.

If you don't mind, would you be interested in posting actual numbers, just as a reference? I would appreciate it, but if it's too much trouble, then don't bother.
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Alexandra Louise Taylor
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:38 pm

I look forward to this. And, well, my game not freezing every five minutes once I get a large enough savefile (I hope I hope I hope I hope...).
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Jonny
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:37 pm

The nerfing of .308 JSP is not really a very good idea. Adding CND effect is ok, but reducing the damage bonus AND adding CND may make it non-worthwhile, especially when used in the already fragile Sniper rifles.

The general idea seems to be nerfing the lever guns while boosting the military-style guns except the Marksman Carbine. Expect less Cowboy builds and more Rambo builds, spraying lead from the hip. In fact, the lever guns may now be displaced completely by the souped-up shotguns and Hunting Rifles.

Hunting rifle being more accurate than Sniper rifle makes no sense.

Beefing up the Service Rifle's RoF is an interesting idea, since its a weapon you get fairly early in the game and the only such weapon that can use AP ammo (which allows you to take on Giant Radscorpions near the Yangtze Memorial, among other things). It may now become the new mid-game favorite. Common NCR troops will become more formidable in combat, too; something to keep in mind if playing Legion.

12.7 SMG will be an absolute beast.

Explosives may suddenly become a viable weapon class of its own.
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Queen
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:40 am

Lever action rifles got the nerfbat worst.

Looks that way, I'll see how it goes but me thinks one of my character's will be using a different primary weapon from now on. I'll give her This Machine or something.
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Laura Elizabeth
 
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Post » Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:08 pm

It's going to be sad to see my Brush Gun collecting dust. In favor of realism, though, I have to agree, as there is no way a .45-70 gun would be this accurate.
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Scared humanity
 
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Post » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:27 am

If you don't mind, would you be interested in posting actual numbers, just as a reference? I would appreciate it, but if it's too much trouble, then don't bother.

Here's the thread where we were discussing this stuff and I posted http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157050-is-the-damage-right/page__view__findpost__p__17107069. I guess I never posted the ROF and reload numbers. I'll have to see if I can find my old spreadsheet.

Looks that way, I'll see how it goes but me thinks one of my character's will be using a different primary weapon from now on. I'll give her This Machine or something.
It's going to be sad to see my Brush Gun collecting dust. In favor of realism, though, I have to agree, as there is no way a .45-70 gun would be this accurate.

I think you guys are puttin' the cart before the horse a little. Those lever guns are still gonna work just fine. The biggest change is gonna be the AP costs for those that use vats exclusively. That's where you're really gonna [censored] and moan. The spread and ROF reduction using iron sights will not be that big of a deal. Look at the numbers (linked above) that I've been running. These guns still kill stuff slendiferously, and there ain't no way in hell Josh "I ain't seen a cowboy gun I don't like" Sawyer is gonna nerf them as much as I did. Josh was talkin' about max spread on rifles being in the .1 range. I'm way higher than that.

-Gunny out.
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TRIsha FEnnesse
 
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