[WiP] Weapon Balance mod

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:56 pm

I'll alter the minimuym values then in the next revision. I was aware of the whole Daedric=Magical Ebony but I based all my numbers on Vanilla... Which has Daedric doing less minimum damage than ebony.

And remember that there's more to damage values than material. An Ebony Longsword has two edges, a Daedric Lonhsword has only one. Shape and heft matter.
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lillian luna
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:56 am

I'll alter the minimuym values then in the next revision. I was aware of the whole Daedric=Magical Ebony but I based all my numbers on Vanilla... Which has Daedric doing less minimum damage than ebony.

And remember that there's more to damage values than material. An Ebony Longsword has two edges, a Daedric Lonhsword has only one. Shape and heft matter.

Um... hmm, longsword and shortsword look like they have two-edges to me: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Image:MW_DaedricWeapons.jpg

A backsword has only one sharpened edge. Like sabers, for instance. In that case, I'd probably reduce the slash damage and increase the chop.
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MARLON JOHNSON
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:43 am

Ahh welll... I REALLY haven't played in a while, and I always thought the "imbalanced" design of the weapon made the reverse edge a little impractical.

That and I almost never used Daedric Longswords... I always just got a Daedric Katana until I could use Goldbrand.
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lexy
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:44 pm

I want to incorporate the following fixes from the UUMP into this mod:

* 'BM nordic silver battleaxe', 'BM nordic silver battleaxe_ber', 'BM_axe_Heartfang_Unique',
'BM_hunter_battleaxe_unique' have 'Battleaxe' instead of 'Battle Axe', corrected

* 'BM nordic silver battleaxe', 'BM nordic silver battleaxe_ber', 'BM_axe_Heartfang_Unique',
'BM_hunter_battleaxe_unique' have 'Battleaxe' instead of 'Battle Axe', corrected

* BM_hunter_battleaxe_unique weapon has incorrect icon, corrected

* weapons 'iron flameslayer', 'iron shardslayer', 'iron sparkslayer' and 'iron viperslayer'
have the wrong icons, corrected

* weapons 'iron flamemace', 'iron shardmace' and 'iron sparkmace' have the wrong icons,
corrected

* weapons 'steel flameslayer', 'steel shardslayer', 'steel sparkslayer' and 'steel viperslayer'
have the wrong meshes, corrected

* weapons 'iron spear', 'iron long spear', 'iron flameskewer', 'iron shardskewer',
'iron sparkskewer' and 'iron viperskewer' have the wrong icons, corrected


* weapon 'dwarven war axe_redas' should have Dwemer War Axe mesh and icon, corrected

* The Bonebiter Bow should be a bonemold bow, not chitin; corrected.

* Steel stormsword uses the wrong mesh and icon, corrected

* iron tanto mesh glows in the dark, corrected* crosier of st. llothis enchantments changed to touch rather than on self

* crosier of st. llothis enchantments changed to touch rather than on self

* adamantium weapons now ignore normal damage resistance

* adamantium axe spelled 'admantium axe', corrected

* steel blade of heaven doesn't ignore normal weapon resistance, corrected

* staff of the silver dawn is named 'silver staff', corrected


Some of them will need to be done in the CS, others can be done in Excel and imported with the rest of the weapon data (names and whether or not the weapon bypasses damage resistance). Talk to me about those viperslayer shardskewer whatever names, there are some inconsistencies in the vanilla names with regards to pairing a name to enchantment damage magnitude. I recall working on it, but I'm not sure if it made it into any of the .xls spreadsheets I sent you in that .zip bundle way back when. We can work on making the naming patterns consistent. :)
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Rach B
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:32 pm

I just finished rebalancing all the melee weapons in Morrowind for my own game so I can sympathize with the amount of tedious work you're going through. Doing this was an eye-opener for me. I was frankly amazed at how inconsistent Bethesda's speed and reach values were. I was also amazed to discover how many enchanted weapons were not set to Ignore Normal Weapon Resistance.

Anyway, good luck with this. It sounds like you're doing great work.
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ezra
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:03 am

Thanks.

I've decided to stay at this current PC simply because it gives me better options for finding work, so I suppose in-game testing won't be happening for a while at least unless Alaisiagae wants to turn on God Mode and test reach and speed.

As for making naming conventions consistent... We can take a shot at that, I'll check to se if you included enchanted items in any of your files...

I'll start work on Artifacts tonite or tomorrow, I'll be hand-picking damage values according to their rarity and, more importantly, amazingness.
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Cartoon
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:19 am

http://www.mediafire.com/?5wetjsnezji. I put in a lot of data already, including changing those names. Look at the "weapons" tab.

I also found the ratios and stuff I was working on for clothing. http://www.mediafire.com/?vzywymwt4ht.

If you need to open excel files on your other PC, download Open Office. If you only want the spreadsheet program, tell it to do a custom install and un-select everything except the "calc" program.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:49 am

OK I'll take a look.
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GPMG
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:26 am

In regards to unique weapons with generic textures...

Should I give them each their own unique stats? For instance... Ilkurok is a Dwarven Spear visually... Should it have Dwarven Spear stats? Unique weapons more often than not have powerful or novel enchantments. Or otherwise stand out. They also tend to be fairly difficult to obtain.

Should I give them "special" damage values to reflect rarity? I'm in favor of making them special, but it's your project.

In vanilla some of them (maybe many) apparently have non-standard damage values.
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Elizabeth Falvey
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:03 am

In regards to unique weapons with generic textures...

Should I give them each their own unique stats? For instance... Ilkurok is a Dwarven Spear visually... Should it have Dwarven Spear stats? Unique weapons more often than not have powerful or novel enchantments. Or otherwise stand out. They also tend to be fairly difficult to obtain.

Should I give them "special" damage values to reflect rarity? I'm in favor of making them special, but it's your project.

In vanilla some of them (maybe many) apparently have non-standard damage values.

I think they should have standard values. They are probably only unique in the sense that they aren't in the loot lists. Hmm... how about something like a 15% or 25% boost to Hit points and base damage? Then again, for the armor mod, I gave unique armors the same base stats. To keep things consistent, perhaps we should keep unique weapons vanilla-esque. Later, we could work on plugins that make the unique armors and weapons a little more, well, unique. I'd put it lower on the priority list, but it is certainly an option we can pursue at some point. How does that sound?

Also, I got wind of some more Wraithguard meshes for the left hand. I'll test them out ingame and see what happens. Hopefully, this third mesh is the charm, and it'll work great.

(sorry I wasn't online earlier, I had some places to be this morning and afternoon.)
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Causon-Chambers
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:14 pm

Not a problem, I'm taking a little break from numbers for today myself. Anyway...

Aryifacts are going to be hand-created simply because they're absolutely unique. I'll probably give unique weapons normal stats unless it makes sense to give them better. Namely the ONE unique Chitin Spear (because Chitrin is absolutely useless right now).

n the armor mod it makes sense for armors to have untouched AR, as most unique Armors aren't "weak". Weapons have a slightly different dynamic, with unique weapons across the board and many of the "weak materials" don't have a unique incarnation until further into the game when you can already get much better.
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RAww DInsaww
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:59 am

Not a problem, I'm taking a little break from numbers for today myself. Anyway...

Aryifacts are going to be hand-created simply because they're absolutely unique. I'll probably give unique weapons normal stats unless it makes sense to give them better. Namely the ONE unique Chitin Spear (because Chitrin is absolutely useless right now).

n the armor mod it makes sense for armors to have untouched AR, as most unique Armors aren't "weak". Weapons have a slightly different dynamic, with unique weapons across the board and many of the "weak materials" don't have a unique incarnation until further into the game when you can already get much better.

Maybe we can bypass this by making unique weapons use a different (better) material. Actually... http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Unique_Weapons. Keep in mind that not all unique weapons even have powerful enchantments. Looking through the list, most are actually made of pretty good materials.

Did you make sure to give glass extra cutting power, but lower the durability in compensation, per vanilla? The damage shouldn't be as good as ebony, but I can imagine the min-max values being close together due to glass being effective at, well, cutting things. True, it is volcanic glass - as is ebony - but obsidian (the real life volcanic glass) is good at slicing skin. Does that make any sense? Let me know what you think about it. :)
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Shelby McDonald
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:33 pm

All values for materials are reflective of Vanilla, health is what you worked out as I haven't the heart to play with it. Remember that I'm using formulas which can be a bit of a problem when it comes to low max and high min damage multipliers. In fact I've had to play with some numbers to ensure that certain werapons had higher maximum damage than minimum. I suppose I COULD change most weapons to have "normal" minimum damage of 1 and alter steel accordingly, but that's a bit against my philosophy. Perhaps I'll simply give glass a good minimum multiplier...

Yes most unique weapons are a fairly good material, I just noticed that some of them aren't a material of any real worth. Namely the Chitin-based ones, as well as the VERY cool Illkurok. Such rare items I think deserve to reflect the effort ity takes to obtain them. Of course that means considering the effort required to obtain them and comparing that against their numbers... Most such items of course likely make up for their rarity with a nice enchantment, the rest I need to think on.

Hmmm... I'll take a close look at things tomorrow or the day after. Likely a look tonite as well.
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An Lor
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:17 pm

All values for materials are reflective of Vanilla, health is what you worked out as I haven't the heart to play with it. Remember that I'm using formulas which can be a bit of a problem when it comes to low max and high min damage multipliers. In fact I've had to play with some numbers to ensure that certain werapons had higher maximum damage than minimum. I suppose I COULD change most weapons to have "normal" minimum damage of 1 and alter steel accordingly, but that's a bit against my philosophy. Perhaps I'll simply give glass a good minimum multiplier...

It would make sense to have the crappiest material have the minimum damage of 1. That isn't to say that other, better materials won't use a minimum of 1... but, if you feel comfortable with the values you've worked out, let's stick with those. :)

If glass does have 1 as a min multiplier, then let's keep it vanilla. Yeah, I just took a look, it is a 1 min. Let's keep it that way, then... I guess... :unsure:
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Mike Plumley
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:13 am

Mostly materials increase maximum damage. That increases average damage anyway.
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Jennifer Rose
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:28 am

How's progress going? If you need any input or anything, let me know! :)
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Taylah Haines
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:50 pm

Mulling it over... I'll see if I can work out a finish to the numbers tomorrow. as I can't run the CS it'll be up to you to set them up ,I'm afraid.

Are you adamant about your reach numbers? Health I don't want to touch, nor weight really, but I want to put reaches in the original constraints of the game. Unless we can find someone who can test reaches for problems.

Of course in the end reach only really matters because of the number of un-armed enemies. If there were no unarmed enemies I wouldn't be worried about reach values.

Edit: You're altering Artifact weapons in a seperate .esp IIRC? They're most;y going to have hand-picked numbers, rather that formulaic stats.
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phillip crookes
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:47 am

Mulling it over... I'll see if I can work out a finish to the numbers tomorrow. as I can't run the CS it'll be up to you to set them up ,I'm afraid.

Are you adamant about your reach numbers? Health I don't want to touch, nor weight really, but I want to put reaches in the original constraints of the game. Unless we can find someone who can test reaches for problems.

Of course in the end reach only really matters because of the number of un-armed enemies. If there were no unarmed enemies I wouldn't be worried about reach values.

Well, let's do your reach values then. :) Could you post them here? I don't recall what they are...
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Lisha Boo
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:02 am

Dagger: 1
Club/Tanto/Shortsword: 1.1
Maces/Axes/Swords/Wakizashi:1.2
Staves:1.3
2H Weapons:1.4
Spears/Halberds:1.8

Something like that. Hmmm... I might have forgotten some stuff. The shorter weapons have faster speeds as well. Though I haven't made any decisions in that regard.

Did you realze crossbows do static damage in Morrowind? Do you want to keep that property? If you do I'd just use vanilla values as those are fairly powerful.

Should I give bows Staff-level EP? They're incapable of Cast When Strikes effects anyway... And an unstrung bow make a passable staff if you're in a pinch. Same question for crossbows. That would make them excellent CE weapons.

Edit: Or something a little short of staff-level. Maybe 50% less...

Edit2: Surfing PES I found http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6693... Not that I agree with it (some of those changes make no sense... Daggers don't NEED high EP, they attack twice as fast as most other weapons!!) but I thought it interesting nonetheless.
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Jonny
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:45 am

Dagger: 1
Club/Tanto/Shortsword: 1.1
Maces/Axes/Swords/Wakizashi:1.2
Staves:1.3
2H Weapons:1.4
Spears/Halberds:1.8

If I recall correctly, spears have at least a reach of 2 in vanilla, right? I mean, if someone is actually going to use a spear for a Major skill, might as well make it worthwhile. Frankly, I'd like to try my reach values first. I never really saw that large a difference in reach between a dagger and a longsword in vanilla gameplay. =/

Something like that. Hmmm... I might have forgotten some stuff. The shorter weapons have faster speeds as well. Though I haven't made any decisions in that regard.

Did you realze crossbows do static damage in Morrowind? Do you want to keep that property? If you do I'd just use vanilla values as those are fairly powerful.

Should I give bows Staff-level EP? They're incapable of Cast When Strikes effects anyway... And an unstrung bow make a passable staff if you're in a pinch. Same question for crossbows. That would make them excellent CE weapons.

Edit: Or something a little short of staff-level. Maybe 50% less...

Edit2: Surfing PES I found http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=6693... Not that I agree with it (some of those changes make no sense... Daggers don't NEED high EP, they attack twice as fast as most other weapons!!) but I thought it interesting nonetheless.

Crossbows should have static damage, I guess. Is there any way to play with the range? I've forgotten. It'd be good give give crossbows high damage, but a shorter range - the same range as a short bow. The big problem with bows and crossbows is that there are so few varieties to choose from. Well, let's keep the damage vanilla, then. I'd give shortbows the same EP as a short sword, longbows the same as a longsword, and crossbows the same as a claymore. Does that sound good? Let me know.

As for daggers and EP... keep it like you were going to. If people want higher EP, they can use the mod you linked to. :P
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Antony Holdsworth
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:54 am

Use attack speed to differentuiate types of ranged wepons. Or rather, that's what I'm going to do.

As far as EP gopes on the bows... I'm going to give them enough for it to matter. They have a MASSIVE downside in enchanting, so I want to make it worth enchanting them.

*shrug*

I'll work out numbers.

Regarding reach: Spears have a reach of 1.8 in vanilla. I checked. The whole problem with longer reaches is that MOST enemies you fight tend to use very short weapons. Or simply use their hands (Dagoth Ur comes to mind) and aving a longer reach can make the fight ridiculously easy.

Edit: In vanilla there WAS no differenmce between most weapon reaches. See http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind%3a%44aedric thus I reason that your reaches might be overkill.
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Vicki Gunn
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:35 pm

Use attack speed to differentuiate types of ranged wepons. Or rather, that's what I'm going to do.

As far as EP gopes on the bows... I'm going to give them enough for it to matter. They have a MASSIVE downside in enchanting, so I want to make it worth enchanting them.

*shrug*

I'll work out numbers.

Regarding reach: Spears have a reach of 1.8 in vanilla. I checked. The whole problem with longer reaches is that MOST enemies you fight tend to use very short weapons. Or simply use their hands (Dagoth Ur comes to mind) and aving a longer reach can make the fight ridiculously easy.

Edit: In vanilla there WAS no differenmce between most weapon reaches. See http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind%3a%44aedric thus I reason that your reaches might be overkill.

Ah, that clears things up a bit. Okay. Still, spears should get a smidgen more reach. I know I usually don't take spear as a major or minor because there are so few spear types and good high-level enchanted spear/halberd weapons. My reasoning is that if you are going to bite the bullet and go with Spear, there should be some sort of advantage.

But, let's leave it vanilla, then. :) Perhaps I can remedy this personal gripe with some weapon mods or something. :P
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John N
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:49 am

I'll put my numbers in, and boost Spear to maybe 2.0 though techncally having the best reach in the game already IS a pretty good bonus.

That way there's a sense of difference between weapons rather than every weapon having the same reach.
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Scared humanity
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:43 am

Sorry for the double-post...

Can anyone confirm the weapon type of an Adamantium Axe? The UESP says it is a 2H Axe weapon. I need in-game or CS confirmation and am away from my customary computer.

Edit: Speed and reach are now updated. I'm deciding on damage for weapons at this point...
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Emma Louise Adams
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:20 pm

Ok, I checked CS about the adamantium Axe: the type is AxeTwoClose. So, its two handed. I'm not sure what the close is all about. Short reach? Just reporting what CS said.
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Juan Cerda
 
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