http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dhmgzmm1mby

I intend to look at the Speed and Reach values. Can you create a tab for damage? No rush, I'm just interested in damage values.

Also... Artifacts and Unique weapons would probably be something to do with a seperate .esp, simply so that people can choose to use the Artifacts untampered with. It's one thing to play with all the Armors, but Weapons already have a semblance of balance around them.

Edit: The only changes I made are on the EP tab itself.

Looks good... I wouldn't say that all the artifacts are balanced. Still, I can create a separate .esp for artifacts. Unique weapons still should follow their base material's stats.

To be honest, I've somewhat lost my head for numbers right now. This probably means I'm not up to the task of sorting out weapon damage. If you'd like to start creating formulas and tackling the damage, feel free to dive right in. ^_^

I think damage might be something that needs hand-balancing on the whole. I'll see what I can work out for formulae though.

I've begun to work out weapon damages however I've hit a slight snag.

Are Halberds Chopping or Slashing weapons? They aren't much use at Thrusting as far as I can see. Should Halberd's do ddamage in the range of an Axe?

All my numbers are going to be based on the Steel Base Damage. Material Multipliers I'm going to base on whatever the Steel equivalent is among blades. Afterwards I'll tweak the numbers so that individual weapons are fairly balanced against each other, and the "normal" weapons aren't more powerful than Artifacts. Not that they aren't more powerful in Vanilla, all it takes is a Grand Soul and a Daedric Claymore outperforms ANY weapon at all.

My table has three new tabs (I'm galso going to fill in our new EP values next time I provide you a link) with each tab including a Minimum table and a Maximum table as the numberts have to be given individual multipliers.

I'd also like your input on my most recent EP values and any decisions you've made regarding reach and speed.

On the positive I'll get access to a PC that can run Morrowind within the week I think, and I'll be able to test those reach numbers to see if tghe game will recognize reach below 1 even if it rounds up. If it doesn't I'll test YOUR numbers. If those are dissatisfactory I'll try out my numbers (10% range bonus on non-daggers and 40% bonus on 2H weapons, 80% bonus on spears, 30% bonus on Staves).

Anyway... Back to filling in my tables.

Edit: I may re-arrang damage affinities once I'f found the

I don't know what the halbred does in MW, but I think it should do chopping damage. Slash is a side swing, which would be hard for a weapon that long. It is better suited for a downward chop because the longer handle would allow you to apply more torque. I would think it would have a little less damage as the axe (but not much less) because the weight of the axe would allow it to hit armor better. But I've never used either weapon in real life, so I'm not sure myself -_-

Well IIRC putting a weapon at the end of a shaft allows it to hit harder. I'll give it damage similar to it's usual Thrusting damage.

Polearms: Hit hard, harder to aim

1H: Easier to aim, less force.

At least that's what I remember from some conversation I had on the DnD "realism advocates" board.

Glad to hear things are going well! I'm excited to see what you've done.

As for a halberd... Well, it would be like a spear in that it can thrust (it has a pointy spear thing at the top). It would also do chop damage, like an axe. I don't think it would be terribly effective at slashing, since the pole is so long and a side-to-side motion like a sword is unwieldy. Plus, the blade size is traditionally rather small... more designed for a chop than a slash, I think. I'm basing this off a quick read on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halberd. I mean, it is really a hybrid between a long-handled axe and a spear. The ones in Morrowind, in particular, have prominent blades. Thrust and Chop, with minimal slash. I would think a thrust with that sort of point design is bound to inflict damage. But, not as much damage as a chop. A thrust, although it inflicts deep a deep wound, only damages a small surface area of the body. The chop, though, I think that would be rather damaging. However... You need to get a good angle for the chop to be effective, whereas poking blindly at someone with the spear-like tip is bound to case damage. To reflect this, perhaps the thrust min and max damages should be close together, eg. 6-10 rather than 1-10. The chop should do more damage, but should be more variable, e.g. 1-15. Does that make sense? If you'd like to bounce ideas off of me regarding min/max values for other weapons, feel free to post or PM.

I'm making some slow progress on the Armor mod - I keep finding out I missed something, so I have to go back and start over (it is a very complicated process to make the 4 needed esps - one for MW, one for MW+TB, one for MW+BM, and one for MW+TB+BM. And then all those again for compatibility with the Left Gloves mods. :wacko: It is a pain in the butt, but I'm working on it gradually.

What are you finding that you missed?

I aqlso found that SOME materials have different multipliers for each weapon type.

Oh, the Ten Pace Boots mesh fix. the new jury-rig wraithguard. Renaming some bracers that I forgot to name in the import/export data (names too long). Legion uniform scripts. I can either import data into the Left Gloves .esp, or I can manually switch icons on the new AIM esps. For the former, there is a chance I might forget something. The latter option means a lot of button clicking. I think I'll go for the latter, actually, that way I don't have to worry about missing an AIM-related change. *sigh* This is gonna be boring.

Are you doingt things in the smart way?

Make a "Morrowind File" First, Then do the other two, then merge the two files you create.

That way you only need to make 3.

You should fix the "Bound Helm" Typo in the Bound Helm name.

I've decided to use "static" multipliers for all max damage, in other words I'm using the same material multipliers for each damage type, but different multipliers for Maximum damage than Minimum damage.

Big problem.... The Adamantium Axe is listed as 2H and so has MUCH higher damage in game than it does according to its name. By about 75%.

Well... Maybe not big, but it should have Battle Axe stats not Axe stats, since its 2H.

Are staves fast? I got impression that staves should be very fast weapons (but low damage, DPS would be high i think), all sorts of whirls and jabs etc. Of course Morrowind doesn't have such animations but one can always imagine.
Staves should have pretty similar chop, thrust and slash damage IMO, can't remember how they're in vanilla right now though.

They're fairly balanced, speed I'm not sure about. However this mod LOWERS Ebony Staff EP, while raising AVERAGE staff EP quite a bit. Even a Steel Staff has a healthy EP value, and a Daedric Staff has an EP value of about 40 with my current revision. They pay for it by having lower Damage and a "mediocre" speed.

Now... Is a Longsword better suited for Chopping or Slashing? A Katana is very focused on the latter, whereas it lacks the Thrusting capability of Eastern Swords... I think I'll give Longswords a fairly balanced spread, where Katanas will be focused more at Slashing at the with lesser Thrusting ability and a mediocre Chopping damage.

Wakizashis will get the same treatment I think...

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Oh and the new Orcish multipliers mean that an Orcish weapon has VERY high minimum damage but unusually low maximum damage. Thus Orcish weapons should average higher damage PER HIT. I reason this from an Orcish Battle Axe which has the highest minimum damage in the game.

Edit: Staves for your information are the fastest non-Shoirt Blade weapons.

Hold up there, Autocthon. I looked over the Weapon damage spreadsheet you PMed me, and I'm down right baffled. I see you've attempted to copy my format for addressing other properties, but, frankly, you need to use something more like what I set up for the arrow damage. You need to have min and max bases for each weapon type, then multiply them by material type.

I think we first need to discuss and address the proper usage of certain weapons with regards to thrust, chop, and slash. Time to put on our thinking caps and dig around wikipedia and other sources. :nerd:

Thrust = forward motion
Chop = up-to-down
Slash = side-to-side

Hold on... this might take a certain amount of research on my part. I'll dig around and get back to you in a moment...

Truthfully? Steel does EXACTLY the damage it does Vanilla with only some minor changes. I have two sets of formula on each page.

An upper formula determines MAX damage. A Lower formula determines minimum damage. This is because each weapon type has a differeent set of parameters in damage dealing, as does each Material.

For instance Nordic Weapons TRIPLE minimum damage, whereas they increase Maximuym damage by onlyu arounf 50%. You're probably confused because I'm using two scales on each weapon.

Your formulae work on throw weapons and arrows because it's all one group. My sheet has to take into account MULTIPLE groups. I actually Copy/pasted" your EP layout twice onto each page. If you were to set my numbers into proper columns you would understand much better. If you give me a few minutes I'm updating the Data tab.

Edit: Most damage values in the Vanilla game atre fairly acurate in their distribution among the damage types. Once I have the basics out I'm going to expand.

Regarding the katanas: you're not going to lower the thrust damage too much are you? I've seen a stance where the katana is held above the shoulder and thrust forward. I think it is really only an opening move in a fight, but it does mean that katanas could thrust. I tried to find a picture to show, but I can't seem to find one, so I hope you know what stance I'm talking about.

Katana Thrus Max Ratio: 6

Same as in Vanilla, if not a little higher. I may raise it, however all steel numbers are equal to Vanilla currently. With the foillowing Exceptions:

Longsword: Averaged out a little.
Katana: Made more favorable for Slashing.
Halberds: Now favors Chopping
Spears: Increased ability to Slash

Those are off the top of my head. Materials besides steel have changes the basic damage of MOST weapons by a point or two. Daedric Dagger in particular is going to need a little balancing as it now does 11-11 Thrust damage, a little lower than Vanilla. I think I've increases the EP value for it though.

Most heavier weapons have a lower EP than vanilla, slower weapons having a bit more than faster. Daggers now have some of the lowest EP values balancing that they have a great many more Hits-Per-Second.

I'm considering increasing Ranged Weapon EP values, as they cannot be given any CwS enchantments. I could offset that by giving them Enchantability similar to (or even higher than) staves.

I'll post these here for everyone to see. Where's Painkiller Rider, by the way?

I looked around on wikipedia, so anybody can back track my findings. 1= the weapon is designed for this kind of motion, 2 = not quite so great but this weapon is designed to do it, 3 = weapon is not designed for this usage/is not usually used in this fashion

Shortblades in Morrowind seem to focus on being fairly balanced. Do I want to play around with the values too much?

For the rest I'll make sure their damage affinities are historically accurate to a point.

Edit: Mind if I leave Dai-katanas with a good Slash damage? I don't want them to be just a faster claymore.

Edit2: Altered damage values according to those points above. Light Blades remain untouched. However I think Warhammers should remain as depicted in TES because Warhammers in TES are 2H whereas in reality they are 1H.

Edit3: Edited light blades. I'll have a table displaying current damage values under the data tab soonn enough. Most Damage is similar to Vanilla, save that damage type affinities of weapons have been changed. Changed Warhammer damage affinity back to Vanilla, because you dop more damage bringing a 2H hammer DOWN than ACROSS for the same reason that an Axe has the same affinities.

Edit4: Skullcrusher damage affinities WILL be made to favor slashing. It's a historically accurate Warhammer IIRC.

Yeah, definitely try to keep things vanilla. But, there are certainly some inconsistencies for certain weapons. You are making fantastic headway with this. :thumbsup:

Dai-Katana? Sure, give it some slash. It's just a bigger katana, yeah?

I'll try to finish transferring stuff to Data as I'm fairly happy with the numbers now. Once I do that I'll post a link to download it here for anyone who's interested to take a look.

It's going to take an hour or two I think, maybe less depending on how hard I work. All I'm doing is copying numbers.

Edit: This should also fix the obvious speling errors.

Any of you guys wondering where we are I just finished the tentative damage numbers. If you want to look at the latest spreadsheet you can download it http://www.mediafire.com/?zzmztmnkdjv, It is in .xls format so you'll need something that can open it.

Now... Some things I have to say before you start asking questions.

Range and Speed values are NOT final until I have performed some in-game testing. I DO NOT lie the setting Alaisiagae entered into the sheet. I understand the reasoning but I consider most of those ranges MUCH too far. I have numbers I want to test, ones which are constrained to the Vanilla range.

Weapon Damage values are all based on Material and Weapon type with Steel having a Material Multiplier of 1. You can view all these multipliers under the "Chop" "Slash" and "Thrust" tabs. These values are not final, there may be some tweaking.

Unique and Artifact weapons are NOT finished. Depending on what we think I may be hand-setting each Unique or Artifact Weapon's Damage and Speed ranges, in order to ensure that the weapons feel like they were worth the effort it took to claim them.

EP values are all roughly balanced against weapon Damage, Speed, and Mass. Ranged Weapon EP values may be geting an increase as they cannot have CwS enchantments. EP values are all but finalized, however if anyone sees a major issue PLEASE TELL ME.

Please feel free to look at the spreadsheet and tell me what you think. There are some MAJOR changes from Vanilla in order to give the game some predictability as to where each different weapon stands in the ranking. There are also going to be changes made to make every weapon type feel unique in some way.

I like to think I have a bit of an eye for numbers, and I'm hoping these settings can make it through to the release relatively untouched, besides speed and range.

Looks good so far. I noticed that Orcish Warhammer and Battle Axe have minimum thrust of 0. Typo?

I also don't know if the game will do fractional damage (e.g. 25.6). Might want to make excel round it by formatting the cells to not display any decimal points.

Just out of curiosity, why do Daedric style weapons have min damages at "1" while other material types have higher min damages (but, naturally, lower max damages)?

If you want my input regarding artifacts, feel free to ask.

Orcish isn't a Typo. I considered giving them a minimum of 1 but I then I saw the Orcish Battle Axe with a minum of 0. Just kinda left it there.

Daedric weapons have a minimum damage multiplier of 1. That's just how they are in Vanilla, except thrust damage which has a 2.2 multiplier for Daedric in order to give Daedric Daggers a static Thrust damage value.

I left fractional damage simply because I didn't think to format the cells for rounding. Next revision will have rounded numbers.

I have some things going on today, and I'm likely going to be switching over to my preferred PC. Once I do that I'll begin filling in Artifact and Unique Weapon damage values.

Personally, I'd make Orcish min 1. It doesn't make sense that it would ever do zero damage.

For Daedric - might want make the min values the same for Ebony. In the lore, Daedric weapons and armor are made of refined Ebony infused with the soul of a Daedra. If a base Ebony weapon has a min damage of 4, I would expect the Daedric weapon to have at least the same min value.
(http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind%3a%44aedric)