[REL] Weapon Mod Kits (Thread 02) : Fallout 3

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:58 pm

EDIT: Test complete. To hit the stationary Brahmin next to Doc Church's place from about 1/3 the way up the entry path in Megaton, it has a 94% chance to hit (

) the brahmin's body with a mod that jacks the 10mm pistol's to-hit up to 100. Without the mod, at default values, it is 33%. Therefore, "VATS To-Hit chance base" controls the probability of your weapon firing on the target, not the chance to hit that weapon in someone else's hands.

And therefore the Wiki needs fixing.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:45 am

Already took care of it.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:34 am

Why would you make them repairable with Scrap Metal while none of the other weapons are and changing repair lists goes beyond the scope of weapon modifications?

Admittedly this is something I added in for personal preference in my own (slightly updated compared to v1.0.2) version of WMK, and I'm not sure whether I'll leave it in for the next update. Lever Rifles in WMK use a new repair list added by the mod, rather than changing any existing repair lists.

Gonna do a test right now. I recently started off a new character. I'm gonna set the 10mm pistol to have a huge to-hit base, and then see what my chances to hit a target in the torso at range is. Then, I'll try again without the modification.

My previous knowledge on the definition of "to-hit" from my experience in tabletop gaming and also the field's proximity to the critical chance multiplier field lead me to believe that its function is what my initial understanding of it was.

Why don't you want FOSE? The only legitimate reason not to use it is if you have the D2D version. Anything else is based on fear-based ignorance.

EDIT: Test complete. To hit the stationary Brahmin next to Doc Church's place from about 1/3 the way up the entry path in Megaton, it has a 94% chance to hit (

) the brahmin's body with a mod that jacks the 10mm pistol's to-hit up to 100. Without the mod, at default values, it is 33%. Therefore, "VATS To-Hit chance base" controls the probability of your weapon firing on the target, not the chance to hit that weapon in someone else's hands.

Ah, well that's good to know - thanks for doing that test. When I first saw that field I thought that's what it did - but then of course the wiki said otherwise; and I believed it! :wacko:

I'll increase that stat for weapons with laser sights in the next update.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:39 am

what for does this mod need fose anyway? the health/condition thingy?

alternative:

float weaponcondition...set weaponcondition to (player av.repair)/100;(or similiar, forgot the exact code, check the workbench script for it)...additem mygun 1 weaponcondition

makes modding a gun dependant on your repair skill and defies fose

(but maybe you need it for somin else dunno)

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:13 am

I reloaded the nearest version and now it's working for me. It suddenly occurs to me that when I tried it before, maybe I didn't have a moddable weapon equipped. I had them in my inventory though.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:51 am

what for does this mod need fose anyway? the health/condition thingy?

alternative:

float weaponcondition...set weaponcondition to (player av.repair)/100;(or similiar, forgot the exact code, check the workbench script for it)...additem mygun 1 weaponcondition

makes modding a gun dependant on your repair skill and defies fose

(but maybe you need it for somin else dunno)

You could also use Get/Mod/SetWeaponHealthPerc to Get/Set info about an actor's currently equipped weapon if that is all that is desired.

But there are lots of other things folks could use FOSE for. However, I am a strong believer in making non-FOSE mods as well. If FOSE doesn't provide something that makes the modder's life easier, don't use it. No need to go out of your way just to use FOSE. But I think there are lots of mods that can be done much easier with FOSE than without.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:45 pm

what for does this mod need fose anyway?

The main WMK workbench script uses several FOSE functions like 'ListGetNthForm', 'ListGetFormIndex' and 'GetEquippedObject'. When (for example) attaching a silencer to a gun, it finds the index number of the gun you have equipped in a list of guns that can have silencers attached, and then gives you back the gun with the matching index number in a second list (of guns that have a silencer attached).

You could also use Get/Mod/SetWeaponHealthPerc to Get/Set info about an actor's currently equipped weapon if that is all that is desired.

But there are lots of other things folks could use FOSE for. However, I am a strong believer in making non-FOSE mods as well. If FOSE doesn't provide something that makes the modder's life easier, don't use it. No need to go out of your way just to use FOSE. But I think there are lots of mods that can be done much easier with FOSE than without.

I agree. WMK is much easier with FOSE than without it. If you opened up both v1.0 and v1.0.1 (or later), I'm sure you'd see what I mean.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:11 pm

ayay, i c now why your script only has 70 lines and mine 700

formlists are somin nice indeed...
but im one of those FOSe defiants aswell lol... makes the life for users just harder than necessary in many cases even tho i dont wanna say its a bad thing in any way as it really adds to the functionality

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:21 am

ayay, i c now why your script only has 70 lines and mine 700

formlists are somin nice indeed...
but im one of those FOSe defiants aswell lol... makes the life for users just harder than necessary in many cases even tho i dont wanna say its a bad thing in any way as it really adds to the functionality

Are you referring to FOSE being harder than necessary? All it involves for the end user is using an alternate application to start up FO3. You can even make a shortcut to the FOSE loader in the stead of the FO3 launcher icon.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:09 am

The main WMK workbench script uses several FOSE functions like 'ListGetNthForm', 'ListGetFormIndex' and 'GetEquippedObject'. When (for example) attaching a silencer to a gun, it finds the index number of the gun you have equipped in a list of guns that can have silencers attached, and then gives you back the gun with the matching index number in a second list (of guns that have a silencer attached).

I agree. WMK is much easier with FOSE than without it. If you opened up both v1.0 and v1.0.1 (or later), I'm sure you'd see what I mean.

Glad it works well for you. That is what we like to hear.

ayay, i c now why your script only has 70 lines and mine 700

formlists are somin nice indeed...
but im one of those FOSe defiants aswell lol... makes the life for users just harder than necessary in many cases even tho i dont wanna say its a bad thing in any way as it really adds to the functionality

No problem. There are plenty of folks who simply won't use OBSE or FOSE because not everyone can use it. We have no problem with folks who don't want to use the script extenders. The more mods, the better, however they are made.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:30 pm

Question, and it's probably been asked before, but is there a way to make mod kits work for custom weapons? Is it something that can be easily implemented or will it require a painstaking amount of work?

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:36 am

Question, and it's probably been asked before, but is there a way to make mod kits work for custom weapons? Is it something that can be easily implemented or will it require a painstaking amount of work?

As for the possibility, yes it is. But is it easily implemented? I say it's not.
I made my personal tweak to this mod, so Wanda can have unique looking http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2622/gunsnn3.jpg.

To doing this, you have to tweak nif files via nifskope, then esp with GECK.
However, unless you understand what needed to do in both nifskope and GECK, it's a painstaking amount of work.
It's took me around 5 hours to "just changing looking of already implemented weapon".
So, to adding custom weapon which is not implemented in default WMK, Im afraid you will need quite amount of knowledge with GECK, including scripting.

With this reason I really appreciate Antistar's work. Just allowing customise vanilla weapons are already tough work.
And I decided to not request anymore about adding something new, it's really hard to do so.

#EDIT - Typos

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:22 pm

Can I recommend tweaking the extended mag size for the assault rifles? Today I started using XFO and decided to tweak the G3 and AK mag sizes. I ended up going with 50 for the AK with extended clip, and 30 for the G3. and tweaked the base clip sizes to 20(G3) and 30(AK) respectively. The drum magazine used on the old tommy gun comes in two sizes; 50 and 100. (I actually did not know that, I always thought it was just 100.) It makes the AR's more authentic as well as making the game more enjoyable, putting an extended clip on the G3 has actually made the difference between life and death SEVERAL times now, it also makes reloading more tactical. (as anybody who has used the G3 unlock in battlefield 2 will tell you, that thing is a beast but runs out of ammo so fast!) Of course this may be purely because of XFO, but it also seems to make the guns more balanced, but that is going more into a complete weapon overhaul than just magazine sizes. :shrug: it's no big deal for me to change clip sizes in the GECK so it's your call.

Also I love how the hunting rifle seems to turn into a Springfield sniper rifle when fully modified!

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:21 am

Got another new mesh fix for you to consider: Environment mapping on the lenses of the scopes.

Some meshes already have it (specifically the hunting rifle, because I already set them up with that). From the looks of the G3 assault rifle, you spliced out the scope off of the Sniper Rifle. Look at the BSShaderPPLightingProperty on the Sniper Rifle's scope lens, and then imitate ALL of the settings and texture paths within from the sniper rifle's lens to the scoped G3 rifle. Then you'll get the shiny glass effect. You may need to re-do texture set overrides on it in the GECK, and it'll be obvious if you need to when you test it.

Also, some balance fixing. A silenced .44 Magnum is overpowered as far as stealth goes. Though you make the argument that revolvers can be silenced, there is one issue that got overlooked: gas pressure. Magnums get their immense power from very potent propellant in the bullet casing. Silencers work by trapping the violently expanding gases in a manner where they can't expand outward to create a flash and report. This takes its toll on a silencer. Since the Magnum has an even higher gas pressure than the average bullet, the rate in which a silenced .44 should deterioriate should be increased drastically. Use the Damage To Weapon Mult override. I just tried out setting it to 0.2, and I think it damages the weapon at a sufficient rate there.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:48 pm

This would go against the principle that every lovingly applied mod is supposed to increase durability, though. And I think effects from a mod should be the same across all weapons regardless of realism issues for one specific gun, or else it would become confusing. In my opinion, it would have been better to not being able to silence the magnum from the start.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:15 am

This would go against the principle that every lovingly applied mod is supposed to increase durability, though. And I think effects from a mod should be the same across all weapons regardless of realism issues for one specific gun, or else it would become confusing. In my opinion, it would have been better to not being able to silence the magnum from the start.

Huh? This mod does nothing to increase durability. Some weapons actually are at a detriment durability-wise because of the weapon mods attached, specifically the auto-fire mechanism mods. As someone mentioned before, they mowed down a Deathclaw lickety-split with a AF combat shottie, but the thing went from pristine to almost destroyed. IRL, there are some silencers that can only handle a few shots before they have to be discarded. They're literally containing an explosion. The silenced magnum IMO is unbalanced as far as stealth is concerned because it is a monstrously powerful silenced weapon with no other big drawbacks. The realism of the damage such power would have on a silencer provides a convenient counterbalance to that immense silent power: accelerated damage rate.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:37 pm

*cough* grenade launcher for rifles *cough*

Perhaps when you hold down a certain key and press fire, it launches a grenade? Not straight forward of course.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:48 am

Just wanted to say thx and great job! I hope you'll keep adding to this

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:40 pm

For MadCat:

===============
1. DESCRIPTION
===============

Weapon Modification Kits - or 'Weapon Mod Kits' - allow you to use a Weapon Mod Workbench to modify your favourite 'Small Guns' firearms with a range of handy attachments:

- Auto-Fire Mechanism (AF): Adds full-auto firing capability to most guns that do not have it otherwise (also increases weapon spread by around 50%).
- Extended Magazine/Clip (EC): Doubles magazine/clip capacity.
- Laser Sight (LS): Increases accuracy (reduces weapon spread by around 33%).
- Scope (SC): Can use scope to sight targets, increases range by 30%.
- Silencer (SI): Makes weapon silent, decreases damage (by around 10%).

In addition, the loving attention bestowed upon your weapon during modification results in durability improvements. Each successive mod applied to a weapon increases its durability by 25% (of its base durability).

Quoted from the mod's description on Nexus. I'll give you that I didn't open the mod in the GECK to verify if it was indeed the case, but I assume mods to be true to their readme.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:08 pm

Why don't you want FOSE? The only legitimate reason not to use it is if you have the D2D version. Anything else is based on fear-based ignorance.

As I said in my second post, not that I don't WANT to use FOSE I haven't got all my achievements and my friends/brother can NOT be allowed to overtake me! I love OBSE btw

AFAIK G4WL still conflicts with FOSE (NOT the other way around!) probably because of some stupid "punkbuster" for online games. calling me ignorant without reading my posts is unfair and claiming I'm "afraid" of FOSE is just silly! :biglaugh:

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:26 pm

could you make it so that you don't need an extra "mod kit workbench" to mod ur guns, but rather just use the normal workbenches for it?

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:27 pm

is it possible to make a gun work bench buyable as a house upgrade?

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:05 pm

could you make it so that you don't need an extra "mod kit workbench" to mod ur guns, but rather just use the normal workbenches for it?

Doubtful

is it possible to make a gun work bench buyable as a house upgrade?

Possible, but I don't know if Antistar wants to do that.

» Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:55 pm

It's the field "Base VATS To-Hit Chance".

This is not what you want; this field controls the chance to hit this weapon when an enemy is using it. It has nothing to do with the weapon's accuracy when the player uses it in VATS. The only way to improve VATS accuracy with specific weapons is via perks.

EDIT: Test complete. To hit the stationary Brahmin next to Doc Church's place from about 1/3 the way up the entry path in Megaton, it has a 94% chance to hit ( ) the brahmin's body with a mod that jacks the 10mm pistol's to-hit up to 100. Without the mod, at default values, it is 33%. Therefore, "VATS To-Hit chance base" controls the probability of your weapon firing on the target, not the chance to hit that weapon in someone else's hands.

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Base VATS to-hit chance controls the chance to hit this weapon when it is wielded by an NPC and has absolutely nothing to do with the chance of scoring a hit when the player uses it in VATS. I don't know what happened to your test but clearly there are other variables involved there. I set the .32 caliber pistol to have a 0 base to-hit chance but I can still hit NPCs with 94% accuracy when using it (patch 1.1). However, NPCs that wield .32 caliber pistols result in my having 0% chance to hit their gun. In other words, the setting works exactly as it was originally advertised on the wiki.

Note that my tests were done with fVATSDistanceFactor set to 0 to remove distance from the vats accuracy equation. I set it back to a reasonable value such as 1.5 (the default is 2) but even then there is no different in my chance to hit when using the .32 cal with 0 base chance, a 10mm with 90 base chance, or a hunting rifle with the default base chance.

» Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:49 am

This is not what you want; this field controls the chance to hit this weapon when an enemy is using it. It has nothing to do with the weapon's accuracy when the player uses it in VATS. The only way to improve VATS accuracy with specific weapons is via perks.

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. Base VATS to-hit chance controls the chance to hit this weapon when it is wielded by an NPC and has absolutely nothing to do with the chance of scoring a hit when the player uses it in VATS. I don't know what happened to your test but clearly there are other variables involved there. I set the .32 caliber pistol to have a 0 base to-hit chance but I can still hit NPCs with 94% accuracy when using it (patch 1.1). However, NPCs that wield .32 caliber pistols result in my having 0% chance to hit their gun. In other words, the setting works exactly as it was originally advertised on the wiki.

Note that my tests were done with fVATSDistanceFactor set to 0 to remove distance from the vats accuracy equation. I set it back to a reasonable value such as 1.5 (the default is 2) but even then there is no different in my chance to hit when using the .32 cal with 0 base chance, a 10mm with 90 base chance, or a hunting rifle with the default base chance.

I have tested it myself. With a mod that jacks the base VATS to-hit of a weapon up to 100, I have a 94% chance to hit the body of the Megaton brahmin. With default value? 33%.

I'll do it again if you'd like. And post screenshots.

EDIT: Okay.... I may have stumbled upon a bug or something in my original test. Upon examining the screenshots, the torso chance to-hit increases drastically... but not any other body parts. Investigating further...

EDIT 2: Okay, I dunno what the heck it's doing. It reads 94% sometimes, 37% other times. I dunno what the heck I saw anymore... :confused:

Screens to prove I'm not crazy: :ahhh:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5455/imnotcrazy1bz9.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2427/imnotcrazy2sh2.jpg

Anyhoo, there's an alternate way to give a VATS accuracy boost to laser-sighted weapons: adding and removing hidden perks that boost the VATS accuracy in OnEquip and OnUnequip script blocks.