I did some thinkin'... The Hunting Revolver has no such problems with the speedloader appearing when it shouldn't on its condition-boosting mod. Maybe it's animation-related?

I tried simply changing the magnum's reload anim to the hunting revolver's, but... were it so easy... :sadvaultboy: The speedloader works and disappears as it should, but the crane doesn't swing out at all. The hammer still pulls back, but that's obviously handled by the firing anim, not the reload anim.

That got me thinking more... We could either request Joefoxx to take a look at it, as he's fast becoming the anim bugfixer on top of just making more ergonomic weapon anims... or the reload animation hooks for the .44 magnum could be swapped out for the hunting revolver's.

Also, I discovered that the tritium glow sights on the revolver heavy frame mod (no other mods) are the wrong size; it seems you used the long barrel dots instead of the short barrel dots.

I have a theory about the misaligned clip/cylinder/magazine.

Basically, the Idle and Aim animations don't have node animation data for the gun clip/cylinder. Typically, when an animation file doesn't have node animation data in it, it means that it will use the positioning on the .nf file, or pickup from the last position of the last animation that was played that has node animation data for a specific node.

When you load a game and you character is in 'idle' position, obviously, there's no 'previous' animation to pickup position (transformation) data from so it resorts to using the .nif transformation data, which, altho properly aligned in the .nif file, may not be aligned in the idle animation file (as the weapon node always has a new transformation data in all the .kf files, but the weapon magazine/cylinder doesn't).

I guess fixing it means, I'll need to gather the transformation data of the weapon parts nodes from another animation(like the starting position in a reload animation), and include all of the missing parts into the idle/aim animations.

I will also need to do that on all the vanilla animations, and all of my custom animations, so it may take some time to fix

Time for some pictures:

- http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/jlollback/falloutnv/wmx_promo_223pistol02.jpg
- http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/jlollback/falloutnv/frag12_01.jpg
- http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/jlollback/falloutnv/aa12_shotgun04.jpg
- http://www.google.com.au/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1680&bih=950&q=frag12&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=

WMX-ModernWeapons is nearly finished now. Taking cues from the real-world FRAG-12 ammunition, I've created two new ammo types: FRAG-12 High Explosive Fragmenting Antipersonnel (HEFA) and FRAG-12 High Explosive Armour Piercing (HEAP). They have similar qualities to hollow-point and armour-piercing ammo types (respectively) in terms of damage bonuses or penalties and how they interact with damage threshold.

I could do straight FRAG-12 HE rounds too, that take the middle ground. At this point I've left that one out as part of an attempt to balance these ammo types against the existing explosive weapons: perhaps needing to choose/switch between two ammo types based on enemy type, as opposed to just sticking one in and blazing away indiscriminately. Though really, as in the base game, I suppose you could just use the armour-piercing ones and take the slight hit to damage dealt...

I dunno. Any thoughts on that?

Anyway, using the Assault Shotgun with FRAG-12 rounds feels like using the 25mm Grenade Machinegun (for the sake of comparison, the real FRAG-12 apparently has a 19mm warhead), only I've got the FRAG-12 rounds creating a smaller explosion and doing less damage. They fly further, straighter and faster, though. (I'm still in the middle of tweaking that.)

I'm about to do the recipes for creating the FRAG-12 ammo types (the only way to access the ammo). This is what I'm thinking:

FRAG-12 HEFA

- Requires: 80 Explosives
- Ingredients:
---- 25mm Grenade (1)
---- 12 Gauge Round (1)

FRAG-12 HEAP

- Requires: 85 Explosives
- Ingredients:
---- 25mm Grenade (1)
---- 12 Gauge, Slug (1)

With recipes like that, a character still needs a high Explosives skill and access to 25mm grenades, but they can choose the lighter (in weight and damage-potential) alternative of the Assault Shotgun with FRAG-12 rounds.





I don't know what to tell you. I've only seen that behaviour (and only had reports of that behaviour) with Readius installed. Have you tried it both with and without Readius installed?





I was considering it, but as you can see in the screenshot above, I didn't in the end, since it's a little vestigial. I went with a subtle approach in the end; making the appropriate parts black, like Deckard's gun, but matching the tone to the parts of the gun that were already blackish.





I'm actually not seeing speedloaders anywhere they shouldn't be right now; not in third or first-person, on any weapon. I am using a hodge-podge of replacer animations, though (I wasn't using any replacement animations when using Readius - except for the ones included with Readius). I've got the fixed ones Joefoxx made for inclusion in WMX (the link's still back there a couple of pages ago), some from his weapon animation replacer mod, and even a few from http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15666.




Ah, thanks - fixed.


Edit: missed Joefoxx's post while typing...

I only had the misaligned revolver cylinders while I was using "Holster" mod. I never had the problem after I disabled it.

I still get misalignment with sawed off shotgun and 9mm smg though, but had the problem since I started playing FONV.

Balancing the FRAG-12 rounds is proving... interesting. Because of the way the game handles damage with weapons that fire explosive rounds (explosive records have damage values, which are used in addition to (?) the damage value in the related weapon record), I'm having to use a damage penalty ammo effect on both the FRAG-12 rounds to get the damage down to something slightly below the Grenade Machinegun. That's for the damage displayed in the Pip-Boy, at least; I'm a bit foggy on whether the damage in the weapon record is still being used when the gun fires an explosive round... or maybe it is used, but only for a direct hit, and the damage value in the explosive record just accounts for splash damage.

It's all very confusing.

Another annoying thing is the spread reduction ammo effect http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1142921-in-depth-explanation-of-spreadaccuracy/. It means that the Assault Shotgun crazily sprays the FRAG-12 rounds everywhere, rather than it being relatively accurate (I just gave them the ammo effect used by 12Ga/20Ga slug rounds to - supposedly - reduce spread to 35% of default). New Vegas badly needs another patch...





Ah - interesting; I think I was using the holster mod (if we're talking about the same one) for most of my first playthrough too. The altered equip/unequip animations it uses are also included in DTO.

I did a test just now where I removed all replacer animations. With the .44 Magnum, the speedloader appeared jammed into the back of the cylinder (as in the nif file) only in third person, and only until the weapon was drawn.

Regarding hit impact and explosion...
If the projectile has the "HitScan" property checked the direct damage(plus critical damage on a crit) and aoe damage both take effect, if it's unchecked, only the aoe damage takes effect. It's a shame about the shotgun ammo spread modifier though. It kinda works, but incorrectly, as it modifies the player skill's contribution to spread, instead of the weapon spread value's contribution to spread. Next best thing than waiting for a patch is making a script attached to slug/frag12 rounds that reduces weapon spread, I guess.. dunno if it's possible, I haven't tried it.

EDIT: scrap that suggestion, I don't think there's a FOSE function that can only modify the spread of a specific weapon. Changing the spread means any NPC with the similar weapon will be affected.

You might want this Antistar: http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40224

And I found that shotgun fix that someone was talking about in the past: http://newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36420

Pelinor's http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40188 mod looks like it takes the approach of only modifying a weapon's spread while it is actually being fired by the player, to limit the problem of the spread reduction affecting all instances of the weapon. I'm planning to have a look at that today...

And thanks for the info on explosions - I do have hitscan unchecked; so that it would arc in flight like the 25mm grenades (for example). One thing I'm still unclear on though is whether the ammo effects that modify damage are acting only on the (unused) weapon damage value, or on the explosion damage as well. The DT modifiers seem to work properly; the red shield (or broken shield) icon shows up as expected and everything.





Yes, I saw those (thanks though); the shotgun VATS critical fix is something I'll leave to probably have a look at later on sometime, but I think I will have a poke around the weapon repair kit fix. What's most likely is that I'll link to it in the WMX readme, since it (and any other mod that alters the weapon repair kit script) is compatible with WMX by default, and some people like having different weapon repair kit functionality (mods that let you use the kits more than once, for example).

WMX v1.0.3 is http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=39651. Here's the changelog:




WMX-ModernWeapons should be ready sometime in the next day or two.

I think the ammo effect for damage is a 'player buff' not weapon buff, so it should take effect no matter what. You'll notice that when you equip something like hollow point ammo that increase damage by something like 65%(?) then browsing for some new guns at 'the gun runners' or just looking at weapons in the inventory, all the guns have increased damage displayed.

Ah - good point; I did notice that when testing the FRAG-12 rounds earlier. It just didn't occur to me what that meant.



Edit: Pelinor kindly sent me a script adapted from his http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=40188 script that makes slugs and the FRAG-12 rounds actually have the reduced spread they're supposed to have. I've plugged that in and it's working fine, so WMX-ModernWeapons is on track to be released tomorrow. I just need to finish up the documentation and take some screenshots.

The add-on will now require NVSE... well, technically it would probably run without it; the spread reduction fix just wouldn't be in effect, that's all.

@Antistar, first off LOVE THIS MOD!

Secondly, from what I understand the next version of WMX, (1.04 I assume), will require NVSE.
For those of us already using NVSE will the upgrade be like your current 1.02 to 1.03 upgrade?
Just extract on top of the old files? Or will 1.04 require and uninstall/reinstall of the entire WMX system?

I think the Modern Weapons will be an external upgrade, not part of the main module.

Yeah, sorry; by 'add-on' there I was referring to the WMX-ModernWeapons add-on for WMX main.

I'm actually going to try to implement the ammo spread effect fix into a stand-alone general esm file; the idea being that it fixes the relevant vanilla ammo types, and other plugins (like WMX-MW) can have it as a master and add new ammo types to formlists in the esm that are picked up by the script. I can imagine people wanting this fix but not necessarily wanting to have to get WMX-MW specifically to get at it.

If all goes to plan, it will be a separate release (though I'll probably also bundle it with WMX-MW for convenience's sake).

I was wondering how this script for fixing the weapon accuracy with slugs worked to see how that plays along with our crosshair, but when taking a look at the mentioned mod I noticed the script source record had been purged (how nice).
I assume it's modifying the weapon minspread shortly before and after firing?
Just asking cause I imagine that's a fix many people would want to use (including myself), so it would be nice if I could make the crosshair play along.

He mentioned having problems with someone making derivative works without permission; removing the script source was an effort to combat that.

But yeah, you assumed correctly; that's what it does. In any case, I won't be removing the script source in the plugin (I'll be making it clear that it's Pelinor's work, though - and it's apparently quite different to the Selective Fire script), so it'll be easy (and much appreciated) for you guys to look at it to see if something can be done compatibility-wise. I'll probably post the script here too (once I'm sure it's working), so you can get a head-start.

Ok cool, thanks If unhandled what would probably happen is that the crosshair stays the same and contracts the moment you shoot and then instantly goes back again (maybe so fast the player can't even register the change). But with a modified crosshair script which uses the same conditions to decide when to apply this fix and the same formula to calculate the new weapon min spread, this should be no problem.

Yeah, the ammo spread effect fix script only applies the altered min. spread to the weapon while actively shooting since it affects all instances of the weapon, but I'm guessing you can alter the crosshair size independently of the weapon's min. spread in certain circumstances?

Yes, all the accuracy-manipulating ammos are already handled by the script anyway. It would just have to be changed from reducing the player spread variable to the weapon spread variable (and maybe adding a small safeguard to ignore weaponMinSpread changes while firing).

Alright, I tested it and it seems to work fine. Here's the script:

scn ASEFSpreadFixerQuestScriptshort iDoOnceshort iEnableshort iVATSfloat fSpreadfloat fSpreadOldfloat fAccuracyMultfloat fAccuracyMultBeanbagfloat fAccuracyMultCustomAfloat fAccuracyMultCustomBfloat fAccuracyMultCustomCfloat fAccuracyMultMatchfloat fAccuracyMultSlugsfloat fAccuracyMultSurplusref rAmmoref rRefbegin GameModeif iDoOnce == 0	set iDoOnce to 1	set fAccuracyMultBeanbag to 0.45	set fAccuracyMultCustomA to 0.95	set fAccuracyMultCustomB to 1.5	set fAccuracyMultCustomC to 1.75	set fAccuracyMultMatch to 0.65	set fAccuracyMultSlugs to 0.35	set fAccuracyMultSurplus to 1.2endifif rAmmo != GetPlayerCurrentAmmo	set rAmmo to GetPlayerCurrentAmmo	if ListGetFormIndex ASEFBeanbagList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultBeanbag		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomAList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultCustomA		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomBList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultCustomB		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomCList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultCustomC		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFMatchList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultMatch		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFSlugsList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultSlugs		set iEnable to 1	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFSurplusList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to fAccuracyMultSurplus		set iEnable to 1	else		set iEnable to 0	endifendif        if iVATS                set iVATS to 0                if fSpreadOld                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif        elseif rRef != Player.GetEquippedObject 5                if rRef && fSpreadOld                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif                set rRef to Player.GetEquippedObject 5        elseif Player.IsWeaponOut && iEnable == 1                if IsControlPressed 4                        if fSpreadOld == 0                                set fSpreadOld to GetWeaponMinSpread rRef                                if fSpreadOld > 0                                        set fSpread to fSpreadOld * fAccuracyMult                                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpread rRef                                endif                        endif                elseif fSpreadOld && Player.GetAnimAction != 2                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif        elseif fSpreadOld                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                set fSpreadOld to 0        endifendbegin MenuMode 1056        if iVATS != ( iEnable == 1 )                if iVATS                        set iVATS to 0                        if fSpreadOld                                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                                set fSpreadOld to 0                        endif                else                        set iVATS to 1                        set fSpreadOld to GetWeaponMinSpread rRef                        if fSpreadOld > 0                                set fSpread to fSpreadOld * fAccuracyMult                                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpread rRef                        endif                endif        endifend

Again, mostly Pelinor's work. I put the fAccuracyMultBeanbag, fAccuracyMultSlugs, etc variables in there so that plugins that have the fix as a master can tweak the values if they (really, really) need to. The 'custom' lists and variables are there to give plugins a bit of room to add some new ammo types to be fixed if necessary (I just grabbed some vaguely useful-seeming values out of the air for those).

If anyone having a look at the script really knows what they're doing and can see where I've horribly broken something, don't hesitate to let me know.

Wouldn't it be 'ideal' (if it's possible) to assign the weaponminspread values while firing(still affected by movement/standing/crouching/aiming) for the dynamic crosshair representation, so that if, say, I change my shotgun ammo from buckshot to slug, it reflects on the crosshair?

Hm I don't quite understand the question But this would be the modified crosshair script (assuming the fAccuracyMultX constants are globals now, which would be more practical):
http://pastebin.com/s3t8sNy9
I didn't have time to test it yet though.

Oh, here's what I was saying:

Let's say, a shotgun's weapon spread is 3.0. When firing, using slug rounds, let's say the script changes the weapon spread to 0.5.

I was saying that ideally, the 'dynamic crosshair' would use the script value weapon spread of 0.5 (modified by things like standing,crouching,etc..) so that when slug rounds are loaded, the crosshair becomes tighter (at 0.5 value).

From how I understood your comment, you were saying that the modified crosshair script would use the "Weapon Spread" value (in the case of the example, it's 3.0), instead of the "Player Skill" value, and ignore the change in weapon spread value from firing (in the case of the example, it's 0.5). Anyway, I must have misunderstood so apologies in advance.

Ah ok, I see. It was a misunderstanding then, what I meant was
before: total spread = playerSpread*ammoMult + weaponSpread
after: total spread = playerSpread + weaponSpread*ammoMult

Apologies to anyone who was really hanging out for WMX-MW to be released yesterday; I forgot I had a friend's 21st birthday party to go to. It (and Ammo Spread Effect Fixer) should both be out later today.


Further on Ammo Spread Effect Fixer; Pelinor also suggested using globals instead of variables stored in the quest script, so I've made that change. He also suggested a change to make the script a bit cleaner. Here's the script now (which will be in the release):

scn ASEFSpreadFixerQuestScriptshort iVATSfloat fSpreadfloat fSpreadOldfloat fAccuracyMultref rAmmoref rRefbegin GameModeif rAmmo != GetPlayerCurrentAmmo	set rAmmo to GetPlayerCurrentAmmo	set fAccuracyMult to 0	if ListGetFormIndex ASEFBeanbagList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFfAccuracyMultBeanbag	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomAList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultCustomA	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomBList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultCustomB	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFCustomCList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultCustomC	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFMatchList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultMatch	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFSlugsList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultSlugs	elseif ListGetFormIndex ASEFSurplusList rAmmo >= 0		set fAccuracyMult to ASEFffAccuracyMultSurplus	endifendif        if iVATS                set iVATS to 0                if fSpreadOld                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif        elseif rRef != Player.GetEquippedObject 5                if rRef && fSpreadOld                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif                set rRef to Player.GetEquippedObject 5        elseif Player.IsWeaponOut && fAccuracyMult                if IsControlPressed 4                        if fSpreadOld == 0                                set fSpreadOld to GetWeaponMinSpread rRef                                if fSpreadOld > 0                                        set fSpread to fSpreadOld * fAccuracyMult                                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpread rRef                                endif                        endif                elseif fSpreadOld && Player.GetAnimAction != 2                        SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                        set fSpreadOld to 0                endif        elseif fSpreadOld                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                set fSpreadOld to 0        endifendbegin MenuMode 1056        if iVATS != ( fAccuracyMult > 0 )                if iVATS                        set iVATS to 0                        if fSpreadOld                                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpreadOld rRef                                set fSpreadOld to 0                        endif                else                        set iVATS to 1                        set fSpreadOld to GetWeaponMinSpread rRef                        if fSpreadOld > 0                                set fSpread to fSpreadOld * fAccuracyMult                                SetWeaponMinSpread fSpread rRef                        endif                endif        endifend

Edit: The http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1166600-rel-ammo-spread-effect-fixer/ is up now - conversation on it should go there.