That's one thing I didn't like about, but didn't really mind, Oblivion. I don't like the fact that you have to level up to get access to other weapon/armor types. What are your guys' opinions? I think they should already be unlocked from the beginning. It just doesn't make sense to me that it was like that in OB?

well, they dont want the player to be too overpowered from the start of the game.
so they put limits on the armour.
although their have been ways to get better armours while being low leveled. like in oblivion

I too think they should be available.
the best items should just be very difficult or impossible to acquire, until you are better skilled to do so.

I think the places that have a higher level range should have the more rare/high-tier armor. Meaning, if somehow I manage to be ridiculous and get past something far beyond my level I should be able to reap the rewards from that challenge. That makes more sense to me than saying "No, this doesn't exist until you hit this level."

One thing that would help is incorporating the value of stolen goods into how hot they are. If a store is missing their prized piece of Daedric armor, and you suddenly show up with an exact replica, you'll have some law-enforcement to deal with.

Then they'd be more available from stores, but reserved for when you actually have the capability of making enough gold to buy them.

I think items of any quality should be available from any level. They should be hard to get, expensive, well guarded, etc. but they should at least be viewable.

I never understood why so many items were dependent on your level in Oblivion. Part of any role-playing game, or any game with a shopping system, is the excitement of seeing wonderful things and working up toward them. It's a simplistic goal, but it is still a goal and a very fun part of working for something in video game.

Stronger gear should only be usable later in a game. Whether that's by only having it appear then, or by making it so expensive that you can't get it (even if you can stare at it in a case), or by giving it a level/stat/perk requirement..... that's up to the game itself. But you shouldn't be able to use late-game gear, in the beginning of a game.

Well I see your point but you need to feel some sense of progression. Half the fun is the journey and the rewards. I think artifact weapons (legendary weapons if you will) should be unlocked from the start, you just have to be brave enough to go looking for them. Chances are you will still need to level to defeat whos ever guarding them! lol

I liked how it was done in Morrowind, where the better armor types were more rare and harder to find. It not only made it special to have Daedric Armor, for example, but it also was more of a challenge to get a full set of really good armor. I think with the best items available from the beginning, it brings the fun of finding really good and rare items back to life (and exploring in general), which was a huge thing I liked about the Elder Scrolls in the first place :tes:

i would want them to be available also.... just near impossible to get. either have to go places that would get you killed or have half a kings fortune in gold to buy them.


also if you see a guy walking around in full ebony armor and your lvl 2 you probably would get the idea that that guy will probably one hit ya.

I think one of the things people assume is the problem is being overpowered early on. If items are hard to get by either price or accessibility then it shouldn't be a problem. If someone finds a way to exploit this and gets powerful items early on, then nothing is really stopping them in the first place from doing that. If someone wants to cheat then they are going to cheat one way or the other.

As long as Bethesda does not slip up and make a laughably easy exploit then having access, but not necessarily means, to powerful items early on will make Skyrim like any other of the hundreds of other RPG's where powerful items are viewable but not obtainable early in the game.

I think we have more to gain than to lose if Bethesda can keep a tight reign on accessing these items. What we gain of course is a broadening of the viewable world and having short term goals to set for ourselves.

Basically, so long as there's not a Sword of White Woe just laying around for every journeyman adventurer to nab it should be alright.

I'd go for weapons and armour of reasonably abundant materials available in shops at the start, perhaps up to Orkish armour, but being prohibitively expensive when starting out so that pieces of basic armour can be bought as you gain the cash. Anything above that rough area should be rare dungeon treasure or from tough opponents only.

Hm, I mainly spoke of items in shops, houses, and NPC inventories. As far as dungeons go, you should be able to find really powerful equipment behind really powerful enemies. We know that the game will have many areas above your level, if you find them at the right time, and they should have proper rewards.

I absolutely hate the idea of being able to get the most powerful gear right away. The way I play, I like there to be a build up before I get new gear, for New Vegas I even got a mod that makes me level twice as slowly just so I can get good use out of all the weapons before I can use new ones

You get better gear as you level. What's difficult to understand? That's all there is to it.

I don't think anyone is saying that you will be able to use it right away, more that it is just technically available but far beyond your means to obtain.

That's certainly what I'm saying. It makes no sense for a blacksmith or shop to get better gear just because the players killed some monsters and leveled up. It shouls just be too expensive for a good while. Didn't a Morrowind expansion or DLC have Adamantium armour that cost 500 gold a piece that was in a shop from the start?

Wait, I think we're arguing the same point. I was saying that no one implying that powerful items should be easily obtainable at early levels. They're in the shops, but at exorbitant prices beyond your current means. If you did some amazing and epic feat of adventuring early in game then you should be able to afford it; though, that should generally be rare.

It simply makes sense that whatever exists in the game world exists in the game world, rather than magically springing into being when the character reaches a particular level.

In addition to making high level equipment some combination of prohibitively expensive and guarded by equally high level creatures, I think that it would be nice if armor and weapon skill was FAR more important than the specific material. That would actually accomplish two things - it would save high level characters from having to use the highest level gear if that's not what they wanted to do, and it would effectively prevent low level characters from becoming instant-uber even if they did manage to somehow get nicer gear.

To use the Oblvion numbers (there's no telling what Skyrim's numbers might look like) - a character with a very high weapon skill might be able to do 25 HP base damage with a Daedric longsword, but he'd still get, say, 20HP base out of an iron one (or whatever's necessary to provide enough room for some variety). Still less than the Daedric, but not so much less that it's unusable. On the other hand, a beginning character might get 5HP base damage out of an iron longsword, and the same 5HP base damage out of a Daedric one.

Between the two - making the items very difficult to obtain early and making the reward for obtaining them early very slight, I would think that high level gear would remain something for which to strive, which is how it should be, but without the unbelieveable gimmick of it simply not being there at all at lower levels and spontaneously appearing at higher ones.

I would be fine if higher level gear was available early on in the game if:

1. The highest level gear (glass, ebony, daedric) are either very very expensive or only in high level areas (yeah, I know that kind of goes against having armors early on, but there you go.

2. The mid to upper (Steel, Dwarven, Elven, but not the highest [see #1]) gear was available everywhere.

3. All armor/weapon etc... is dependent on skill level to a point. If you are level 1 and have heavy armor skill of 10-15 you could get that set of Orcish armor, but it wouldn't be much better protection than iron or steel. The differences in the upper tier armor only starts to shine as your skill in that item gets higher. For example: with an heavy armor skill of 10 you might have an armor rating (AR) of 5 from iron and maybe 6 with orcish (maybe even ebony at AR 7). But if you raise your Heavy Armor skill to 80 the iron might give you an AR of 10, but Orcish might have AR of 25 and Ebony an AR of 50.

Or this might be a terrible idea, but it was just something that occured to me as I read this thread.

Edit: I guess gpstr beat me to it though we have a little different take on how the level of skill effects they type of weapon/armor. I would like a higher disparity between iron and daedric so iron would be mostly useless compared to higher tier items.

Personally I much much prefer the Morrowind way to Oblivion.

Gathering the best stuff took you journeying accross the entire continent but it WAS THERE. It makes sense, it provides fun challenges.

And if you don't want the higher leveled gear at low level, then don't get it. In Morrowind you had a good progression but occassionally you would stumble accross something like Boots of Blinding Speed and you'd go "AWESOME!"

Furthermore, having gear and creatures already in the right places gives incentive to explore and be aware. I recently reinstalled Morrowind and everytime I go into a dungeon I think "I hope there isnt too many horrible things around the corner....."
As oppossed to Oblivion where it was "Hooray, another cave made so I can manage it without too much effort...."

Anyway, strayed a bit OT with the leveled creatures thing but I feel its kind of the same deal.. I like the idea of the world being as it is rather than all of a sudden all bandits are running around in daedric armor..

So yeah, make Skyrim more like Morrowind than Oblivion imo!

Sorry about that, I just skimmed the first few posts in a hurry and misunderstood the concept. Yeah, I believe that certain characters or guards should have the best armor available, and it should be in stores, just neigh impossible to get early on

I liked how in Morrowind you'd have "elite" enemies and people of interest who would always be carrying high level weaponry. For instance in Morrowind the ordinators had the oridnator armor and ebony weapons, and the Bouyant Armigers had glass armor. Dangerous vampire ancients or high ranking daedra worshiper types would often have ebony or glass equipment, but as such they would be very dangerous individuals.

I'd like an "In sight but out of reach" sort of system. High level armor and weapons exist.. they are carried by people of elite status, and are placed on display at certain places. It was annoying in Oblivion that they only "appeared" when you reached level 20 or so. Such things should always be in sight so you have something to strive towards, but very hard to acquire at a lower level.