Unchecking the bashed patch is a bad idea for more reasons than just the fact that All Natural will no longer work properly. You really need to keep that.

If only some LOD objects turn yellow, that could be from an fLightLOD setting in your oblivion.ini file being too high. If all of them turn yellow at once at certain angles/distances, then it's probably from a defective _far.nif file in another mod that provides them. A prime suspect is the aqueduct in Let the People Drink. The LOD pieces for that have data still on them that can cause yellowing.

Better Cities has no bearing on All Natural, so it won't matter one way or the other except for those cells the indoor weather filter affects.

@ Malonn: Yeah, ES is on haitus for the moment, I'm waiting on Scanti's OBGEv2 so I can do a rewrite. You're correct in saying that it breaks the weather - something I somehow missed until I'd released it. :shrug: I'll get an update done eventually, when I have the time.

@ Marshmallow: No, you need the Bashed Patch, as Arthmoor said. Does AN work properly if you only have it installed, ie. a load order of:

00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.8]02  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.8]03  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.8]04  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.8]05  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version 0.9.6]

See how that works.

Thank you for the fast reply.
It definitely got to do with bashed patch. As soon as i uncheck it, AWLS works and the weather/door bug is gone.
But I do assume its only the vanilla weather, e.g. its raining all day now.

Here are my settings as i rebuild the patch:
http://img718.imageshack.us/i/wb1.jpg/

Here is my load order from OBMM: (simply the order you suggested, with corresponding version numbers, I use BOSS with an up to date masterlist to do that)

I will try a vanilla + AN soon and update on this (what are the odds...I like that thought...)

UPDATE: GMT+1: 00:00am Ok, vanilla + AN + AWLS works. Im goin add the other omods one by one as far as they could affect the system.
UPDATE: GMT+1: 02:00am Better Cities 4.4.2, Blood&Mud, Frostcrag Reborn, RAEVWD 1.6 + SI + QTP3 Patch, UL 1.5.1 are missing, and still it works.
UPDATE: GMT+1: 02:25am Better Cities 4.4.2, Frostcrag Reborn, RAEVWD 1.6 + SI + QTP3 Patch, UL 1.5.1 are missing, after installing better cities the bug happened again.

Should I change the load order suggested by BOSS and load the All Natural.esps after Better cities esp?
Or is it possible to load both mods via TCS? There must be a global variable that gets overwritten somehow. Maybe the Better Cities modders do know?

10  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp11  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.8]12  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.8]13  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.8]14  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version 0.9.6]15  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp16  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD - SI Addon.esp  [Version 0.1]17  WindowLightingSystem.esp18  AmbientDungeons.esp  [Version 1.3]19  AFC v2 Damage Text.esp1A  AFC v2 Locational Damage.esp1B  Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp1C  BrighterTorches_v1.2.esp1D  Living Economy.esp1E  Living Economy - Items.esp1F  Cutthroat Merchants.esp20  DLCVileLair.esp21  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]22  StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp23  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]24  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]25  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]26  JolardHome.esp27  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp28  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp29  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2A  DLCFrostcrag.esp2B  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2C  Knights.esp2D  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]2E  Blood&Mud.esp2F  Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp30  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]31  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]32  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]33  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]34  More Realistic Encumbrance with Fatigue.esp35  ReducedBackwardsRunningSpeed.esp36  RealisticForceMedium.esp37  RealisticMagicForceLow.esp38  Jump_Adjustment-2211.esp39  BoneGrind.esp3A  RshAlchemy.esp3B  DD_ProximitySneakPenalty.esp3C  RenGuardOverhaul.esp3D  RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp3E  Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed block and 150% damage.esp3F  DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp40  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp41  Duke Patricks - Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs.esp42  Nec Mystic High Elf-Remake.esp  [Version 1.0]43  Nec - Extra Mystic Elf Face.esp44  Nec Mystic Dark Elf-Remake.esp  [Version 1.0]45  CuteElf11.esp  [Version 1.2]46  Tabaxi Race 2.0.esp  [Version 2.0]47  Ren_Soya_KD's.esp48  _Ren_BeautyPack_full + Soya's hair.esp49  KT_CustomRaceFix.esp4A  Better Cities - Full City Defences.esp4B  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp4C  Better Cities - No LEYAWIIN Flooding.esp4D  Better Imperial City.esp4E  QTdof.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.8]

That won't help because... 1) the better cities .esp is just a dummy ESP to load the BSA, so there isn't anything that will to change there... and 2) I am using the BOSS load order and have now discovered that I am getting the same behavior if I go in and out of the copious coinpurse like you were doing. If it helps, the weather transitions both when I enter and when I exit the interior. For example it was a thunderstorm, I go inside, and it's bright and sunny and no more thunderstorm (using storms and sounds obse + bc weather patches, so it's obvious not just because of the brightness level inside but the lack of storm sounds). Go outside and it's still sunny... so go inside and still sunny, interior is bright... go outside and cloudy. Go inside and back to sunny. Go outside and thunderstorm again... rinse and repeat. Seems totally random besides the interior/exterior transition being an issue.

Now I have been using AN forever and BC forever and I don't remember this occuring.

I also had a random weather change just walking across a cell boundary. It only happened once, but when it did it was :shocking:

My streamline is configured to not do any purging. The only thing it does is manage my fog distance and FOV. So that's not it... I don't have anything else that would be purging my PCBs...

So it's seems to be something either with the newest version of BC, the newest version of this, or the newest version of Wrye Bash doing something funky in combination. I haven't really upgraded anything else lately. So I'll keep playing and see if I can isolate something but... it's not just you. I'll grab old copies of Wrye Bash and see if it changes anything and let you know.

Thank you for the quick answer. Im glad to know that its not a corrupt file on my PC. I am really eager to help where i can, but I am new to moding Elders Scroll games, since I just started last month.
I really wondered too, why there just wasnt any issue regarding this, but every dog has his day.

Anyway, I deactivated BC, probably a good idea due to its heavy fps impact and relatively minor gameplay enhancements. :shrug:

All I can say at the moment is that it's not bash updates that did it. I went back to the oldest version available (271) and rebuilt and it made no difference.

I find BC to be great and have no plans to deactivate it... so I'm going to continue to mess with it and see if it's something else...

EDIT: So... FYI it's only the IC that does this. Every other city in Better Cities works fine. If I disable better ic and start a new game the ic weather is stable. If I enable better ic and start a new game then the IC weather is unstable. But again everywhere else seems fine.

The question is why?

What specific version of BC are you guys using for this? I don't use the mod but I do have files for it stored locally that may need to be updated since I use them in building the indoor weather filter. Since this is an indoor weather issue that might be related.

I've also noticed the same problem, some random weather changes while changing cells in the Imperial City. I haven't had much time to play, so I made no attempt to track it down yet, but I am using Better Cities 4.4.1 . I'm using the latest Wrye Bash. I have not updated OBSE to beta 5 yet, so I don't know if that could be involved. But like I said, I haven't tried to track it down myself, and I'm using a pretty large list of mods right now, so I'm just letting you know that I also had the problem.

Here's my load order if it helps.

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 0.9.8]02  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.72]03  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]04  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]05  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esm  [Version 0.9.9b3]06  Better Cities Resources.esm07  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]08  UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp  [Version 1.0.0]09  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp0A  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0B  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]0C  SM Plugin Refurbish - SI.esp  [Version 1.05]0D  Better Cities .esp0E  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 0.9.8]0F  All Natural.esp  [Version 0.9.8]10  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 0.9.8]11  All Natural - EW + NW + AWS.esp  [Version 0.9.6]12  Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp13  Storms & Sound.esp14  WindowLightingSystem.esp15  Ayleid Loot EXtension.esp16  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp17  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]18  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 3.3.2]19  Immersive Travelers.esp1A  Map Marker Overhaul.esp  [Version 3.0]1B  Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp  [Version 3.0]1C  sr_super_hotkeys.esp1D  DLCHorseArmor.esp1E  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]1F  SM Plugin Refurbish - HorseArmor.esp  [Version 1.11]20  DLCOrrery.esp21  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]22  SM Plugin Refurbish - Orrery.esp  [Version 1.11]23  DLCVileLair.esp24  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]25  SM Plugin Refurbish - VileLair.esp  [Version 1.21]26  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp27  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]28  SM Plugin Refurbish - MehrunesRazor.esp  [Version 1.11]29  DLCSpellTomes.esp2A  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]2B  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]2C  DLCThievesDen.esp2D  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]2E  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]2F  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.72]30  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]31  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]++  Cobl Tweaks.esp  [Version 1.44]32  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]33  OOO-Water_Weeds.esp  [Version 1.33]34  OOO-DLT_Remover.esp  [Version 1.33]35  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO.esp  [Version 0.9.9b5]36  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp37  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b1]38  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]39  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3]3A  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - LessReaversInGates.esp  [Version 0.9.9b3]3B  Mart's Monster Mod - Spawn Rates - Reduced.esp  [Version 3.7b3]3C  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3]3D  Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp3E  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b3]3F  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp40  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3]41  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b3]42  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]43  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]44  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.69]45  Cyrodiil transportation network 1.3.esp46  BHC_Expanded.esp  [Version 1.2]47  hackdirtabyss.esp48  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.0]49  All Natural - Real Lights - The Ayleid Steps Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]4A  za_bankmod.esp4B  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp4C  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]4D  SM Plugin Refurbish - Battlehorn.esp  [Version 1.2]4E  DLCFrostcrag.esp4F  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]50  SM Plugin Refurbish - FrostCrag.esp  [Version 1.2]51  Knights.esp52  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]53  SM Plugin Refurbish - Knights.esp  [Version 1.06]54  Mart's Monster Mod for OOO - Knights .esp  [Version 3.7b3]55  The Lost Spires.esp56  LostSpiresImpeREALFortsPatch2.esp57  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.3]58  Faregyl.esp  [Version 1.0.10]59  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0]5A  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.3]5B  LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp5C  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.1]5D  xulTheHeath.esp5E  XulEntiusGorge.esp5F  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]60  LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]61  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]62  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]63  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.3]64  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]65  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3]66  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.2]67  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]68  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.1]69  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.2]6A  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]6B  xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp  [Version 1.3.2]6C  xulPantherRiver.esp6D  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]6E  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.0.2]6F  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.3]70  xulBlackwoodForest.esp71  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]72  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0]73  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]74  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]75  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]76  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]77  Cliff_BetterLetters.esp  [Version 1.1]78  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.1]79  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp7A  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.3 DT.esp7B  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.1]7C  movablebodies.esp7D  kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp7E  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp7F  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.1.1]80  Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp81  RealisticFatigue.esp82  Natural Hunger v2_1 by QF.esp83  RealisticHealth.esp84  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.3.4]85  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.89]86  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.86]87  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.80]88  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.89]89  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.89]8A  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.86]8B  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.80]8C  SM_UnlockSpells.esp  [Version 0.70]8D  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.84]8E  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.83]8F  MidasSpells.esp90  StealthOverhaul.esp91  ZumbsLockpickingMod - OBSE.esp92  ZumbsLockpickingMod - Hide Difficulty Addon.esp93  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.4]94  Oblivion XP.esp  [Version 4.1.5]95  Oblivion XP - Journal Mod Patch.esp96  immersive_caves_auto.esp97  Let There Be Darkness - Knights.esp98  Let There Be Darkness - Cyrodiil + SI.esp99  Let There Be Darkness - Mehrunes Razor.esp++  Item interchange - Placement.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk, reduced.esp  [Version 0.78]9A  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b1]9B  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]9C  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]9D  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]9E  Cobl Races - Balanced.esp  [Version 1.52]9F  Better Cities - Full City Defences.espA0  Better Cities Full.espA1  BCBravilFULL-Barrowfields patch.espA2  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.espA3  BCChorrol-ChorrolHinterland fix.espA4  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.espA5  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.espA6  Better Imperial City.espA7  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.espA8  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2]A9  Better Cities Full FPS Patch.espAA  ReallyImmersiveMessagesNoBirthsigns.espAB  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 0.9.8]AC  Bashed Patch, 0.espAD  Streamline 3.1.esp

Well ok. With BC-IC I think there's a possibility that because Better Imperial City.esp is using a parent worldspace other than Tamriel that something is getting thrown out of wack. It's a stretch, because the IC worldspace should still be in charge there which doesn't change. That's the only thing I can think of that could do that assuming your problems are limited to the IC.

I'll grab the latest version of Better Cities (never used it before), and have a look at this. It seems that there's something to do with this that's causing bugs - perhaps it's structured in a way that I didn't account for in the weather script.

@ mashani: Do you remember where you experienced the random weather change?

I can say it definitely has happened to me in a few shops in the Market District, both vanilla shops and those added by Better Cities.

I just played around with it for a few minutes at the Tiber Septim Hotel. Was getting the same thing, going from overcast, to clear to raining. I uninstalled All Natural 0.9.8 and reinstalled 0.9.7, rebuilt my bashed patch, and could not duplicate the problem. So there is something. I'm going to test it out some more...


Edit: I found some time to play today... seems something changed between 0.9.7 and 0.9.8, I still can't reproduce the weather changes with 0.9.7. It seems to be localized to the Imperial City. It happens pretty consistently with any Interior/Exterior change in any district, including the Imperial Palace and the Prison Bastion. I didn't get any changes when moving between districts, only interior/exterior changes.

@Arthmoor: I'm using the most current version of BC. Also, I do not think it's your indoor weather filter that's doing this. I built my patch without the filter and still both vanilla and bc modified interiors switch at random. The weather switches both when entering and exiting any interior in the imperial city both vanilla and modified. At least it seems to be both. When using storms and sounds OBSE I can hear the rain go on and off and/or storm sounds change when entering an interior... not just a change on exit...

@wrinklyninga:

I don't remember, but it very well may have occured while wandering around in the imperial city. I'll go for a walk about later today and see if I can duplicate it.

EDIT: Oh and I am using the most current OBSE Beta 5 if it matters.

Using 9.8 in conjunction with mostly some retexturing stuff such as Qarl 3 and Harvest mods so far. If I'm not getting any of the expected Natural Interior behavior (except for translucent windows which are very nice), what problems should I be looking for?

It must be something in combination with a change made in 0.9.8 and how BC is setup, because I don't use BC and I spent a considerable amount of time going into and out of buildings all over the IC and never once had weather do an unexpected change. that's with OBSE 18b5, OSR, Streamline, etc. I don't think any of that matters since it looks like a pretty clear cause and effect with BC+AN.



You need to be sure the cells are imported into the Bashed Patch properly or that information won't likely work.

If you aren't getting transparent windows and you're not in Chorrol, make sure the BSA has been installed properly.

FYI: I have not been able to duplicate the weather switching just wandering around. But yes, it's most definately something between Better IC and 0.9.8. Without Better IC running my weather is rock solid going between interiors and exteriors in the IC. With it, it switches pretty much every time. I'm certain this did not happen with 0.9.7.

Oh Wrye Bash, I'd completely forgotten about that program. It's fixed and running fine. Very very gorgeous, thanks for taking up the torch and running with it.

Version 0.9.8 working great. Endorsed at TESNexus.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/694/43686587.jpg
Weather after a runny day in the road between Skingrad and Kvatch.

I finally got a bit of time to look at the Better Cities problem today, and I've fixed it for the next version.

Basically, Better Cities (the Imperial bit of it) changed the parent worldspace of all the IC districts to a new worldspace for some reason, and I'd simplified the cell checks in the AN weather script in 0.9.8, so that it was based off worlspaces having Tamriel as their parent, or a derivative. However, this means that with BC, the IC districts no longer pass the check, so AN does nothing. I added the checks for the individual IC districts back in, so now it works as before.

Big kudos on that. Thank you very much. I wish I could learn just a bit from you, instead racking my brain over these tutorials.

I'm posting this everywhere relevant:

Gaining 2 esp slots is the awesome. So thank you.

Just being able to get rid of the ESPs entirely is great. Mine are being merged into the bashed patch, but not having them there contributing to the file thrashing bug is even better.

Also excellent news on the BC fix. We certainly seem to be getting closer and closer to a 1.0 as time goes by

Not trying to be pushy or anything, but is there any chance for the 0.9.8/Better Cities quickfix to be released before 0.9.9?

Oh, and... Thanks for all the hard work on AN, guys, you are making a lot of Oblivions a lot prettier.

I'm thinking of putting up an updated master plugin on TES Nexus containing all the work I've done so far since 0.9.8 (a surprising amount), which is probably most of the work that will be done for 0.9.9, but I'm holding off until the end of the week (tommorrow) until I upload, just in case anyone spots any more bugs. I'd hate to upload a fix only for someone to post another bug the moment it's up.

So get bug-searching, people!

There's also some RL bugs that got fixed, nothing major, it'll easily wait for 0.9.9. I suspect we'll probably end up at 0.9.9 and hover there until Chorrol's meshes are done and OBSE 0018 is no longer beta.