[Spaceman]

I tried disabling misc mods to come well under the limit, but the problem persists. I guess I'll do half as you suggested until I find the culprit. I'll report back once I do.

We mean keep halving until you figure out the problem, no need to report here after each drop...

[adam holden]

I'll see if I can get you one So, will you turn on the chandelier in RL? This is a continuation of my previous posts, a few days ago, in this thread...

Doesn't look like it hurts anything to include it, so may as well.

[Trey Johnson]

I finally found the culprit. The problem was with PiiiP Enhanced Grabbing. Once i disabled this, AN worked with all other mods installed - no more crashes.

But, to make things even odder, I re-installed PiiiP Enhanced Grabbing (I had previously un-installed AN countless times to no avail), but everything run fine this time. So far no crashes, so no idea if the scripts between both mods conflict under certain circumstances, or if the original install of PiiiP got corrupted. In any case, it is good to keep in mind there's a potential conflict here.

[Margarita Diaz]

EDIT: On an unrelated note, regarding uninstalling RL and losing Alyeid Stones, does anyone have any ideas for a solution? I've thought about it a fair bit, and my best solution so far was a counter and an uninstall script. The counter would record how many stones were not using the vanilla object, and then the uninstall script would add that number to your inventory. Not particularly neat, but anything more would have to replace information in the savegame, replacing the RL stones' records with the vanilla stones' records.

Would it be possible instead of disabling the real stones to make them invisible with a effect shader?

EDIT:
that probably wouldn't work... two objects in the same place

[Pat RiMsey]

AN's ReadMe is very clear about telling you to check the AN plugins that appear in that section. If your problem is using Wrye Bash or its Bashed Patch in general, post in the Bash thread. AN's instructions have nothing to do with which plugins you select in which sections for FCOM and other mods. In my opinion, you are better off checking plugins where they appear than not, unless specifically noted otherwise in the ReadMe for the mod.

Yes, I know how clear it is about selecting all the AN plugins in that section. I was curious about the rest of them. If I usually want to check them all, then that's the answer I was looking for.

[Laura Cartwright]

I don't know if this has been reported yet, there is a error in the wizard, missing dbl.quote at the end of line 74.

[Sakura Haruno]

Off topic, but if you've got any suggestions as to how we can make the instructions clearer, please do tell, we're always looking to make it as easy to use and understand as possible.

Hi, my comment on SomeWelshGuy's - Immersive Interiors, I hope was not taken as a slur to your efforts, as upon reading it again, knowing now what I'm doing it makes sense. The comment was coming from the direction of some one who had no experience of Wrye Bash, which was certainly myself, when I first installed your mod a while ago. My confusion at the time was about Bash Patch, what was it, where was it, and how do I rebuild it, once I saw in list. considering the awkward process of installation of the Utility and being presented on first using it with tabs at the top, and a list of mods installed. However no clues. Fortunatley I read through their instructions and went looking, and also googled Bash patch, and someone had written something less daunting (cannot remember where) that gave me the confidence, to rebuild patch, without fearing a total re-install of game (these are the worries of a novice ). So while I was excited to try your work, there was a learning curve involved, and to myself, that meant a challenge, but from experience of writing addons myself, and trying to give instructions of use, I discovered not everyone is blessed with patience.

My suggestion in your readme would be to bullet point, like you did for manual, OBMM, Bain install, the "Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp" instructions and give it more significance as on reading quickly through it's less instructional in presentation.

Something like:


<sub>“All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp” -
This is a special .esp that enables other mods to have the interior cell climates that All Natural provides but MUST NOT BE TICKED on your Load Order.

1. Run Wrye Bash and locate "Bashed Patch, 0.esp" in your load order.
2. Right Click "Bashed Patch, 0.esp" and a menu will appear.
3. From the Menu List, click on "Rebuild Patch".
4. "De-activate Suggested Mods?" may appear, if your new to this click "no".
5. "Update Bashed Patch, 0.esp" window will appear. Select "Import Cells".
6. In the right pane of "Update Bashed Patch, 0.esp" window use tickbox and make sure
................ a. ""All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" is ticked.
................ b. ""All Natural.esp" is ticked.
................ c. if using SI then "All Natural - SI.esp" is ticked.
7. Click the button "Build Patch" at the bottom of window. This process could take upto a few minutes, but there is nothing to worry about and simply click "Ok" on summary.
8. If using BOSS, run that, (Can be run from short cut at the bottom of Wyre Bash. or Alternatively place "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" directly above "Bash Patch, 0.esp" in load order, by left clicking and dragging there.

NOTE - "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" will now appear with a red box with a dot, to signify missing master, DO NOT WORRY it has been Imported to Bash Patch , and should not be ticked.
(Further reading about filtering .esps can be found in the documentation for Wrye Bash).</sub>



I hope that's ok, and I haven't gone over the top .

EDIT: Oh and I have said this on TesNexus site, under a different user name, but is worth saying again.. I truly think this mod is excellent and is something that adds to my enjoyment of the game. Thank you.

[Rowena]

Hi, my comment on SomeWelshGuy's - Immersive Interiors, I hope was not taken as a slur to your efforts, as upon reading it again, knowing now what I'm doing it makes sense. The comment was coming from the direction of some one who had no experience of Wrye Bash, which was certainly myself, when I first installed your mod a while ago. My confusion at the time was about Bash Patch, what was it, where was it, and how do I rebuild it, once I saw in list. considering the awkward process of installation of the Utility and being presented on first using it with tabs at the top, and a list of mods installed. However no clues. Fortunatley I read through their instructions and went looking, and also googled Bash patch, and someone had written something less daunting (cannot remember where) that gave me the confidence, to rebuild patch, without fearing a total re-install of game (these are the worries of a novice ). So while I was excited to try your work, there was a learning curve involved, and to myself, that meant a challenge, but from experience of writing addons myself, and trying to give instructions of use, I discovered not everyone is blessed with patience.

My suggestion in your readme would be to bullet point, like you did for manual, OBMM, Bain install, the "Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp" instructions and give it more significance as on reading quickly through it's less instructional in presentation.

Something like:


<sub>“All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp” -
This is a special .esp that enables other mods to have the interior cell climates that All Natural provides but MUST NOT BE TICKED on your Load Order.

1. Run Wrye Bash and locate "Bashed Patch, 0.esp" in your load order.
2. Right Click "Bashed Patch, 0.esp" and a menu will appear.
3. From the Menu List, click on "Rebuild Patch".
4. "De-activate Suggested Mods?" may appear, if your new to this click "no".
5. "Update Bashed Patch, 0.esp" window will appear. Select "Import Cells".
6. In the right pane of "Update Bashed Patch, 0.esp" window use tickbox and make sure
................ a. ""All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" is ticked.
................ b. ""All Natural.esp" is ticked.
................ c. if using SI then "All Natural - SI.esp" is ticked.
7. Click the button "Build Patch" at the bottom of window. This process could take upto a few minutes, but there is nothing to worry about and simply click "Ok" on summary.
8. If using BOSS, run that, (Can be run from short cut at the bottom of Wyre Bash. or Alternatively place "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" directly above "Bash Patch, 0.esp" in load order, by left clicking and dragging there.

NOTE - "All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter for Mods.esp" will now appear with a red box with a dot, to signify missing master, DO NOT WORRY it has been Imported to Bash Patch , and should not be ticked.
(Further reading about filtering .esps can be found in the documentation for Wrye Bash).</sub>



I hope that's ok, and I haven't gone over the top .

EDIT: Oh and I have said this on TesNexus site, under a different user name, but is worth saying again.. I truly think this mod is excellent and is something that adds to my enjoyment of the game. Thank you.

No worries, it wasn't taken as a slur.

My problem with what you've proposed is that it's essentially just "How To Use Wrye Bash". I'm confident that there are far better places to learn this from than the All Natural readme. IMHO the Explaining “All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp” section tells you exactly what you need to know to get the Filter Patch working. It assumes prior knowledge of WB because you should have that knowledge before you try installing AN. I'm against hand-holding, which I'm afraid is all I see this as. :shrug:

I do realise that AN is somewhat popular, and there are a large number of people for who this mod brings about their first usage of WB. However, if they don't know what they're doing, they can learn from sources that are already well established - the WB readme is the primary source, and TES4Positive and TES Alliance spring to mind as great sites for newbies. I don't expect when learning how to use the BOOST C++ libraries, that the BOOST documentation tells me how to manipulate strings, or implement exception handling, I realise that I have to go away and do some research on such topics to gain a foothold before I can use that knowledge to do what I really want. It's the same principle here, just less technical.

[Chris Duncan]

No worries, it wasn't taken as a slur.

My problem with what you've proposed is that it's essentially just "How To Use Wrye Bash". I'm confident that there are far better places to learn this from than the All Natural readme. IMHO the Explaining “All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp” section tells you exactly what you need to know to get the Filter Patch working. It assumes prior knowledge of WB because you should have that knowledge before you try installing AN. I'm against hand-holding, which I'm afraid is all I see this as. :shrug:

I do realise that AN is somewhat popular, and there are a large number of people for who this mod brings about their first usage of WB. However, if they don't know what they're doing, they can learn from sources that are already well established - the WB readme is the primary source, and TES4Positive and TES Alliance spring to mind as great sites for newbies. I don't expect when learning how to use the BOOST C++ libraries, that the BOOST documentation tells me how to manipulate strings, or implement exception handling, I realise that I have to go away and do some research on such topics to gain a foothold before I can use that knowledge to do what I really want. It's the same principle here, just less technical.

While I see your point and sympathise, being the kind of person who at first gets excited, then I realise and embrace the research, I will always remember something said to me many years ago when computers had 512kb RAM (and less), as a young programmer I held all of it in my head, no flow charts, nothing, but the vision and my fingers on a keyboard. "Remember people are stupid till they prove otherwise" this was said to me to encourage me to write an instruction manual for my programme, I complained at the time that my programmes UI guided the user through its operation and I was happy I would be proved right. I learned that was not the case, while a fairly adapt person was able to use straight away, the" fear of the novice" meant they made stupid mistakes through lack of confidence and they panic.

God knows I'm not calling anyone stupid, just I have found with communication over the years, that with things like this, give the user every chance to build confidence. They will support those that don't read, and tell them to read instructions and by doing so, help to actually give constructive comments to the author and feelings of gratitude, which after all is nicer to read, than "this don't work for me " messages. Still it is your choice and I fully respect it.

Hehe anyways, thanks for replying, and for taking the time to explain to me, it is much appreciated.

[Lil'.KiiDD]

While checking something else in TS4Edit, I noticed that some of "AN - RL" changes to Lights gets overwritten by the DCLs.. Is this unavoidable?

[Emma Copeland]

I agree with Wrinklyninja's stance on being too explicit in getting the Bashed Patch set up. I think what we have in our readme is probably detailed enough. The Bash readme is daunting, but it's the place to go for learning how to use Bash.

When I was more into MUD coding, I and others always found it far more useful to guide people into figuring out what was wrong with their code rather than just handing them the answer and parting ways. If the person found such guidance to be unwelcome, it was generally a sign that they didn't have the proper skill set to do that kind of thing. Some things require a willingness on the part of the user to learn.

There are already plenty of places that have good guides on Bash use, and our readme isn't going to be one of those places since it's just not the appropriate medium, any more than someone's comment thread for their mod would be to start teaching people scripting.

@H2Odk: Yes, that's perfectly fine and probably unavoidable. My thought on that is if someone put enough thought into an area to delete a light, why should we try to override that? It applies to Bethesda just as much as any other mod. Although Bethesda should have used their own cells, which is another point of contention

[Dale Johnson]

@H2Odk: Yes, that's perfectly fine and probably unavoidable. My thought on that is if someone put enough thought into an area to delete a light, why should we try to override that? It applies to Bethesda just as much as any other mod. Although Bethesda should have used their own cells, which is another point of contention

It is not Lights in cells, but the actual types of Lights (LIGH) they change. eg (00034E36). The strange thing is that the Lights are identical to Oblivion.esm, so in an vanilla game they wouldn't change anything.

Could I just make a esp by removing all the other records, so that only the Lights remain and then put that late in the load order or would that cause (for me) unforeseen problems?

[Stay-C]

Oh. You mean dirty edits in the DLCs? Just clean those with TES4Edit and be done with it.

[Tarka]

It is not Lights in cells, but the actual types of Lights (LIGH) they change. eg (00034E36). The strange thing is that the Lights are identical to Oblivion.esm, so in an vanilla game they wouldn't change anything.

Could I just make a esp by removing all the other records, so that only the Lights remain and then put that late in the load order or would that cause (for me) unforeseen problems?

I am seeing that has well.

Knights changes the parent ref on the light in AnvilChapelofDibella

And Thieves Den changes the light position in AnvilCastleSmugglerCaves

All the other dlcs look okay to me. And not changing light's in any other cells.

Knights is really the only one to worry about since it has parent enabled / disabled states. Copying it changes in to AN RL would make it dependent on Knights or Vice Versa..

theives den is just moving the position of lights after all. so you can just copy the positions in tes4edit over into RL..that solves that one..

My advice is just remove those two cells from AN RL itself. Then it would be conflict free per say..or try and make a patch for RL Knights..

[Fanny Rouyé]

Oh. You mean dirty edits in the DLCs? Just clean those with TES4Edit and be done with it.

Oh.. Maybe I should do that

EDIT:
That was much better, now there is only two conflicts. One from OOO (very different from vanilla) and one from Knights (only Bound Radius is different by 0.001186 from vanilla).. I think I'll delete that one.

What exactly is Bound Radius?

Also.. this is when things go wrong..when idiots like me start editing stuff

[abi]

The Bounds Radius is supposed to be related to how large the interaction area is with a mesh. The CS is notorious for fiddling with those values for no real reason, which results in plenty of false edits to things. Happens most often with NPCs but I've occasionally seen it with other things.

[Tasha Clifford]

@ Tomlong: That's your Timescaled Clouds feature request in now. There's just one ini setting to enable or disable it, and it'll scale the cloud speed according to your timescale being relative to the vanilla value of 30. IIRC, the code is basically:

cloudspeed *= TimeScale/30

which works well in EW, so should do the same in AN.

In other news, I had a quick look through the OBSE v19 additions, and GetCellChanged has the potential to simplify a whole load of the condition detections in the weather scripts. Of course, I won't be messing with that until OBSE v19 is out of beta, but it's something I can look forward to.

[Ella Loapaga]

@ Tomlong: That's your Timescaled Clouds feature request in now. There's just one ini setting to enable or disable it, and it'll scale the cloud speed according to your timescale being relative to the vanilla value of 30. IIRC, the code is basically:

cloudspeed *= TimeScale/30

which works well in EW, so should do the same in AN.

In other news, I had a quick look through the OBSE v19 additions, and GetCellChanged has the potential to simplify a whole load of the condition detections in the weather scripts. Of course, I won't be messing with that until OBSE v19 is out of beta, but it's something I can look forward to.

Awesome, thanks. I can't wait to try out the release...in November or December...


Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

[Philip Rua]

Awesome, thanks. I can't wait to try out the release...in November or December...


Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

It could be sooner than you think.

... and that's all I'm saying. (No, it's not going to be tomorrow.)

[Trista Jim]

It could be sooner than you think.

... and that's all I'm saying. (No, it's not going to be tomorrow.)

Yeah, probably, but I will be stuck at school until one of those months arrives, haha. No rush...really...

[JESSE]

Previously in this thread I had requested that the chandeliers in Bruma be turned on. I turned them on in my copy of Real Lights (using 256 radius of the same chandelier). Wrinklyninja and Arthmoor had asked I go back in bright sunny weather - well I finally got some good weather and made it back to Bruma. As I suspected, turning on the chandeliers doesn't make much difference, so if you guys would enable these, I'd appreciate it

http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab118/AndalayBay/Oblivion/BrumaEntry1.jpg
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab118/AndalayBay/Oblivion/BrumaEntry2.jpg
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab118/AndalayBay/Oblivion/BrumaDR1.jpg
http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab118/AndalayBay/Oblivion/BrumaDR2.jpg

Wrinkly, I haven't had any fog, but I've got your debug ring loaded now, so if I get some weird colour effects I send along the info.

[Bambi]

Well the reason you haven't had any fog is due to another bug which we've already fixed

I also enabled the chandeliers in Bruma already. 256 seems tame enough to not be an issue.

[Honey Suckle]

Well the reason you haven't had any fog is due to another bug which we've already fixed

I also enabled the chandeliers in Bruma already. 256 seems tame enough to not be an issue.

Actually I had nothing but fog for quite a while! Is there another patch that you guys snuck out? I'll check the downloads page.

Thanks for the chandeliers

[Rik Douglas]

Actually I had nothing but fog for quite a while! Is there another patch that you guys snuck out? I'll check the downloads page.

Thanks for the chandeliers

No, no patch yet. Arthmoor's talking about the fixes we've made but haven't released yet. We'll do so once we've got all we need to do done.

[Scared humanity]

Not really a big deal but the window sills in Arborwatch Suite have some weird collusion

Just wanted to report that part of the wall is clipping through a book shelf in Glenvar Castles library.

I finally fixed both these issues...thanks popcorn71 for reporting them way back in July...