[ezra]

Thanks for maintaining this mod, it makes the game so much more enjoyable.

I've been experiencing the Oblivion Gate weather sticking as well, below are my observations. I'm using All Natural version 1, OBSE 18, and Wrye Bash 287.

I think that during weather transitions city/interior/exterior loading causes the weather to reset to the previous weather, possibly canceling the transition. If the weather is in the process of transition from Oblivion Gate weather when this happens, the Oblivion Gate weather comes back and behaves like "normal" weather rather than being dependent on proximity to a gate. You then have to wait for it to run it's course like normal weather - although I've found continual city or interior/exterior loading can cause it to go away.

To test this I used a default All Natural ini and timescale of 30. I triggered Oblivion Gate weather and then ran to Cheydinhal. The weather had mostly transitioned back but I could still hear a little thunder. Upon entering Cheydinhal the Oblivion Gate weather was back in full force. It took hours of game time to go away if I just stood around (I would change my timescale to 1000 and it eventually went away) however entering and exiting buildings or the city could cause it to immediately disappear (no transition).

Having a lower timescale with the default All Natural ini exasperates this effect as you are more likely to cause city/interior/exterior loading during a transition (because transitions take longer) and weather lasts longer. I recommend lowering Transition Times for all weathers in the ini to match your timescale. I use this formula y/30=x where y is your timescale. Solve for x to get ideal Transition Time. As a work around to the Oblivion Gate weather consider reducing transition time even further. If you are already experiencing everlasting Gate weather, make sure you are not close to a gate, set your timescale to 1000, wait for it to go away. It should within minutes. Change back to your desired timescale.

To the authors of this mod are these recommendations sound? Please let me know if there is anything specific I can do to help.

That's a good anolysis and that has been my experience as well. I don't normally have the patience to wait around to determine when the gate weather actually stops - I either force it to clear or go inside a building, shop or whatever and then fast travel somewhere. I often wind up resting and by the time I'm done, it has cleared up. If I'm still outside, without entering a city, building or dungeon, then the gate weather clears up ok, but I think it should be instantaneous when you close a gate. However it usually hasn't fully cleared by the time I do a zone transition and it will reset to full force.

[Lakyn Ellery]

[quote name='dudecool' date='21 September 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1285105686' post='16411289']To the authors of this mod are these recommendations sound? Please let me know if there is anything specific I can do to help.[/quote]

Interesting breakdown. It certainly seems like a plausible explanation. Gate weather is supposed to begin transitioning out once you're > 5000 units from the gate. Roughly translated, 1.25 cells. So going from the Cheydinhal gate into the city is supposed to be far enough away, although if the transition wasn't complete then you'll run into the problem of the weather resetting back.

Timescale has nothing to do with how fast the transitions occur. The game doesn't care. It does matter in terms of how long you'd have to wait for one to actually start, because the duration times for each weather type are tied to how fast time is moving in the game. Which is why you run into having to wait out the change from gate weather to something else.

For transition speeds, I find the following works well:


This way when weather wants to change, I don't have to wait eons for it to actually happen. The smaller you make these numbers, the faster it goes.

That last one is the speed for transition from normal weather to gate weather. It's already insanely fast now, and lowering it at all has proven to cause problems for me while playing.

[quote name='wrinklyninja]We have an interior version of the OblivionStormTamriel weather, we could instead apply that just before the game applies its own weather. Just an idea, I'd have to check things out myself before making any changes.[/quote]

We don't want to do that. In this case we're going to have to step in and impose something AFTER the game tries to change it or you'll end up with rain falling in the council chamber.

An even simpler solution would be to just remove the rain from our changes to gate weather. It really wouldn't bother me one way or the other if we went that route.

[electro_fantics]

In a previous version the mod would tell you when there was a transition so that if you were about to change cell you had the possibility to wait for the change to take effect. That was actually my suggestion, but it seems to have disappeared from newer versions. Maybe bring it back (optional from the ini) and with a more immersive message like "you [or I] can feel a weather change coming"?

[Shelby McDonald]

I thought it was possible to preserve weather transitions when switching between Tamriel/City cells? I never had any problems with weather suddenly reverting back to the weather scheme that was transitioning out upon a load screen when running Enhanced Weather on its own, it (EW) would always pick the transition up where it left off.

And when it comes to a weather transition sparking a message, that would seriously break immersion for me no matter how digestible you try to make it, because the mod is then warning you not to switch cells via a load screen so it can transition the weather uninterrupted. I do not want to be stuck outside the gates to Bravil waiting for it to stop raining and the sun to come out so that AN won't completely forget it was switching the weather and reset it back to raining when I actually enter the city, or AN just buggers the transition and fast-switches the weather.

I know I'm sounding brash right now, but that does not mean in any way I do not appreciate the effort everyone who is working this mod is putting into it, and trust me, what's been done right (which is to say almost the entirety of this mod) is mind-blowing.

[Jon O]

Timescale has nothing to do with how fast the transitions occur. The game doesn't care. It does matter in terms of how long you'd have to wait for one to actually start, because the duration times for each weather type are tied to how fast time is moving in the game. Which is why you run into having to wait out the change from gate weather to something else.

I might be misunderstanding your meaning but I see a connection between timescale and transition duration in my game. For the sake of clarity transition duration means to me for example: red from Oblivion Gate weather fading into the sky. A slow transition is a slow fade and fast transition the red appears instantly with no fading. If I go up to an Oblivion Gate with a timescale of 5 I see a slow fade of red into the sky as the weather gradually changes. If I go up to an Oblivion Gate with a timescale of 1000 the weather change is instant with no fade. I think this means timescale affects how long the transitions last. Changing transition times in the ini also has the same effect, lower numbers equal faster fade. So transition duration is connected to timescale and you can change the transition times in the ini to correct timescale's affect on transition duration.

Also I vote to remove rain from gate weather. I think it will create a more ominous feeling.

[Channing]

Another odd thing I noticed in the Bruma chapel is a very thin seam running left-right through the roof and walls of the chapel towards the back where the altar is (at certain angles the sun can be seen through this seam.

Thanks for the seam report. I'll check it out. I think I saw this before but forgot to fix it.

[Mason Nevitt]

Bug report from Nexus: Bravil Mages guild 2nd floor windows are not transparent.

Regarding this whole transitions debate, I think the system may need some refinement if dudecool's feedback is correct. When you go through a load door during a transition, we are limited to doing one of two things: setting the previous weather fully on, which then will stick until the next time for a change (unless in special circumstances), or setting the new weather fully on, which will act the same. We can't resume a transition somewhere in the middle, as nice as that would be.

However, I thought the script was choosing one of these two things depending on how far gone the transition is, whereas it seems to be just setting the previous weather. I'll try changing it to apply the new weather if the transition has passed 50%. That should solve those cases where it's almost gone and then comes back full force.

I'm not going to be adding messages though, as helpful as that would be, it's just a workaround showing there's something wrong, and I'd rather fix what's wrong if possible.

[Avril Louise]

However, I thought the script was choosing one of these two things depending on how far gone the transition is, whereas it seems to be just setting the previous weather. I'll try changing it to apply the new weather if the transition has passed 50%. That should solve those cases where it's almost gone and then comes back full force.

Would it be possible to check if the weather you are transitioning from (the old weather) is Oblivion weather, and if so always apply the new weather? If so, one prevent the Oblivion weather from being stuck.

[evelina c]

Would it be possible to check if the weather you are transitioning from (the old weather) is Oblivion weather, and if so always apply the new weather? If so, one prevent the Oblivion weather from being stuck.

Yes, but if it's only 0.001% transitioned, then you'd get a pretty jarring change that way too. :shrug:

[glot]

Bug report from Nexus: Bravil Mages guild 2nd floor windows are not transparent.

Specifically, these meshes:

bravilmagesguildint2ndfloor02.nif
bravilmagesguildint2ndfloor03.nif

Yeah, the stupid interior is built from 4 parts. Wonder how we missed those.

Regarding this whole transitions debate, I think the system may need some refinement if dudecool's feedback is correct. When you go through a load door during a transition, we are limited to doing one of two things: setting the previous weather fully on, which then will stick until the next time for a change (unless in special circumstances), or setting the new weather fully on, which will act the same. We can't resume a transition somewhere in the middle, as nice as that would be.

However, I thought the script was choosing one of these two things depending on how far gone the transition is, whereas it seems to be just setting the previous weather. I'll try changing it to apply the new weather if the transition has passed 50%. That should solve those cases where it's almost gone and then comes back full force.

I'm not going to be adding messages though, as helpful as that would be, it's just a workaround showing there's something wrong, and I'd rather fix what's wrong if possible.

+1 for the switch to new weather if we pass 50%. It's better than nothing, even though that may still not catch it all since transition times from gate weather to regular weather are determined by whatever got chosen.

Would be better, jarring or not, to do the special case detection on gate weather and ALWAYS transition that to the target weather. I don't know about you, but really, I'm getting a little sick of seeing "busted gate weather ur mod sux0rs" all the time.

Also, yes, messages about it being broken would be too much. There's no way to properly fix it, anything we do will be a hack, so I can't see any valid reason to pester the player about it.

[NAkeshIa BENNETT]

Well, when I come to looking at the transitions, I'll sort them out.

Meanwhile, the fog is being a pain in the ass - it looks like Sfon DN LOD Fog only changes the far distances, and it only changes them to 8000, no matter the weather, and Redbag's Fog mod changes all the distances by various amounts to different values. :sigh: If you want to replicate these mods' changes for all of AN's weathers, then I'm going to have to make this very complicated to use. If you just want to be able to bring fog closer and further, with near and far distances changing by the same amount, I can leave it as-is, but you won't get the same effect as in those mods.

Though why you'd want to use Sfon's mod is beyond me, at least Redbag's has some variation, even if it makes things more difficult for me. Bah. <_<

[Taylor Bakos]

Meanwhile, the fog is being a pain in the ass - it looks like Sfon DN LOD Fog only changes the far distances, and it only changes them to 8000, no matter the weather, and Redbag's Fog mod changes all the distances by various amounts to different values. :sigh: If you want to replicate these mods' changes for all of AN's weathers, then I'm going to have to make this very complicated to use. If you just want to be able to bring fog closer and further, with near and far distances changing by the same amount, I can leave it as-is, but you won't get the same effect as in those mods.

Though why you'd want to use Sfon's mod is beyond me, at least Redbag's has some variation, even if it makes things more difficult for me. Bah. <_<

Yes sfons is a bit of a stone wall and a bit too close which is why I for one preferred redbags. Replicating the mods is not necessary really in the detail, the user being able to vary their own settings I think is the main value of All Natural being able to do this, and however you feel happy about doing it would be much appreciated. Anyone dabbling with the ini has to give it a bit of study anyway so if it has to be complicated go for it I say , but if you have a simpler (ie less time consuming method for yourself), then I think it would satisfy most users need for fog distance limiting and would achieve a similar to sfons but user variable which is more desireable.

Either way the effect of immersion enhancement for those that feel theres a bigger world out there if you cant see it all at once will still be achieved. Opens up another plugin slot, and users of AN will feel more assured that AN's method is not adversely affecting AN where another mod could be.

I saw the earlier post reference negative multipliers making the start/end distance cross over and effectively turn positive - I think I was tired or your post installed a fog multiplier in my head at the time , but if I understand it correctly I think your idea of how it should work sounds right.

Once implemented there will be a fair few of us doing stupid things/learning by mistakes as usual and eventually a few happy bunch of settings suggestions will evolve.

Had a go at finding pseron wyrd morrowind fog :unsure: No clue.

[Star Dunkels Macmillan]

Had a go at finding pseron wyrd morrowind fog :unsure: No clue.

http://morrowind4kids.com/pseronwyrd/PW_MorrowindFog.zip

He just posted the link on another thread

[Petr Jordy Zugar]

Regarding All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp I see from looking at the Bashed Patch that some of the interior cells from Feldscar have NIWBrumaNoWindows [CLMT:04001BAB] Climate, but lack the 'Behave like exterior' flag?

[Khamaji Taylor]

Oops. An oversight in the filter. Will be fixed on the next update.

[phillip crookes]

I seem to have a problem with this mod. It is always thunderstorming outside. Even if I change the weather with console codes, it changes back once I enter and exit a building. Help would be greatly appreciated.

[Jessie Rae Brouillette]

Oops. An oversight in the filter. Will be fixed on the next update.

Looks like BrumaLuciaPetLoverHouse "Lucia the Pet-Lover's House" [CELL:##00767A] from Better Cities Resources.esm got the wrong Climate - Generic instead of Bruma climate.

[Rachael Williams]

I seem to have a problem with this mod. It is always thunderstorming outside. Even if I change the weather with console codes, it changes back once I enter and exit a building. Help would be greatly appreciated.

The weather can last quite a while and if you go inside a city or building, you will reset the transition. If you have a look at some of the previous posts in this thread from just a few days ago, you'll see that we were actually having a bit of a debate on how to handle this - especially in relation to Oblivion gate weather. If you use the console to clear the weather, it will reset to what it was previously when you come back out of a building, dungeon or city. I've had a thunderstorm last eleven hours in-game time. It did eventually clear up. I figured Wrinklyninja must be from England and was nostalgic for the weather in November

[Dustin Brown]

I figured Wrinklyninja must be from England and was nostalgic for the weather in November

Scotland, actually, so it's even wetter. Though I do study in England.

In my defense, I never touched the weather chances, they're still at what Chong Li put them as. Though I suppose that just means I find them OK.

[NEGRO]

What timescale are people playing this game at that it's taking so long for weather to roll a change? I'm at 12 and things seem to roll along at a decent pace.

[Quick draw II]

What timescale are people playing this game at that it's taking so long for weather to roll a change? I'm at 12 and things seem to roll along at a decent pace.

I'm also playing at 12, and in general the weather changes at a reasonable rate. However, I did have one day recently where it rained the entire day. Which is... realistic, especially around here at this time of year, but I don't know if it's supposed to be possible with AN. Certainly with EW (which I used previously), if it decided to rain for a long time, I still saw a transition (from rain to rain :laugh: ) every so often, but there were no noticeable transitions this time. I'm also using Storms & Sounds, if that is relevant.

One other thing I noticed recently: I wandered into the Market District from outside, and while I was outside, it was nice and sunny. The moment I entered the Market District, it was raining. And I don't mean it started raining, but it was as if it already was raining.

[Taylor Bakos]

I've just discovered that several windows in the Better Cities Bruma chapel have not been properly converted to AN equivalents (checked with FormIDFinder, only some of the stained glass windows are correct):

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3785/anbadwindows.jpg

BC uses the http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19490 for Bruma, replacing all the STATs in the Chapel of Talos with the Darker Cathedral Ones. Unfortunately the windows themselves are not seperate STATs, but part of much bigger STATs, so unless you edit the DK Nifs you are stuck with DK's non-transparent windows or you can replace them with the vanilla STATs which uses the All Natural meshes.

But looking at cathedralstenintback01.nif in NIFSCope it looks like it's just a matter of editing the NiSourceTexture file paths to point to for example textures\allnatural\architecture\cathedral\CathedralWindowStendarr03.dds instead of the vanilla path for CathedralWindowStendarr03.dds.
Can someone more knowledgable confirm that I'm on the righ track before I test it? My mouse is not working properly at the moment so I feel a bit handicapped...

[Katie Samuel]

I'm also playing at 12, and in general the weather changes at a reasonable rate. However, I did have one day recently where it rained the entire day. Which is... realistic, especially around here at this time of year, but I don't know if it's supposed to be possible with AN. Certainly with EW (which I used previously), if it decided to rain for a long time, I still saw a transition (from rain to rain :laugh: ) every so often, but there were no noticeable transitions this time. I'm also using Storms & Sounds, if that is relevant.

One other thing I noticed recently: I wandered into the Market District from outside, and while I was outside, it was nice and sunny. The moment I entered the Market District, it was raining. And I don't mean it started raining, but it was as if it already was raining.

I'm playing at 10, so it takes a while sometimes. I've also noticed the same thing with the weather, which I reported previously. Nice and sunny one second, absolute pooring rain or even a thunderstorm as soon as I enter a new area.

@Wrinklyninja - aha that's it. Cold and raining - no wonder you feel at home in Tamriel Bruma's got the right temperature, but it's too dry

[Andy durkan]

What timescale are people playing this game at that it's taking so long for weather to roll a change? I'm at 12 and things seem to roll along at a decent pace.

I'm at 10 and weather changes seems completely natural 99% of the time. That is, I've never had weather that seems to stick too long or switch too fast. Once in a full moon I can get an abrupt change - seems to happen when fast traveling into cities at those rare occasions.

[Robert Devlin]

But looking at cathedralstenintback01.nif in NIFSCope it looks like it's just a matter of editing the NiSourceTexture file paths to point to for example textures\allnatural\architecture\cathedral\CathedralWindowStendarr03.dds instead of the vanilla path for CathedralWindowStendarr03.dds.
Can someone more knowledgeable confirm that I'm on the right track before I test it? My mouse is not working properly at the moment so I feel a bit handicapped...

As you say, all you have to do is open:

cathedralstenintback01.nif
cathedralstenintentrance01.nif
cathedralstenintfrontwin01.nif
cathedralstenintside01.nif
cathedralstenintside02.nif

And for each one change all the window path's to include ALLNATURAL\ after the beginning "textures\" line. However, you also MUST add a NiAlphaProperty Node to each of the window blocks. If you do both those things, you will have transparent windows.

But I just so happen to have done all the work for you because I'm such a nice guy.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=763Z02MH

So I guess I should message Ismelda about this since we'd prefer to put this in Better Cities rather than All Natural, I believe.

ALSO: To whoever said they saw seams and cracks in the Cathedrals where sunlight was coming in, please tell me where. I don't see any places. Thanks.