[El Khatiri]

OK, I see your point. It would be nice if you could whip something up that does that though. It's one of those little things about the game that's always annoyed me.

+1.

I second Belanos' req - beside much better realism, eliminating canopy shadows could also compensate rain-induced fps drop..

Good for heavily modded setups.

[Milad Hajipour]

Possible, but I'd say that it's outside the reach of this mod - it could just as well be done in a separate mod, just a really short script using the IsRaining/Snowing/Pleasant/Cloudy functions and SetNumericINISetting.

I'd be careful with assuming this would be possible. It's well known that having this set to 256 instead of 512 will crash the game. I don't know if setting it to 0 would actually be safe to do, and I've never heard of anyone actually trying that.

[gary lee]

Ah ok, good to know you're just waiting on me. I'll go finish the Mania stuff then.

Also, I heard back from Cliffworms and he'll update Losing my Religion shortly to add the changes I made. I think Arthmoor said he already added it to the filter list? Then we can also include the AN patch files for it in the next AN release. Is that what we decided? Can't remember but that sounds like a plan...

Wait, what changes is he going to make?

Yes, the filter has been updated with LMR cell support, and the plan was to include the transparent mesh modifications to the cathedrals as a patch option. There wouldn't need to be an ESP based patch since the filter will handle the climate part.

[Scarlet Devil]

I'd be careful with assuming this would be possible. It's well known that having this set to 256 instead of 512 will crash the game. I don't know if setting it to 0 would actually be safe to do, and I've never heard of anyone actually trying that.

To disable trees's shadows, could bDoCanopyShadowPass be used instead?

(There's also fCanopyShadowGrassMult but I have no idea of what it does)

[Heather Dawson]

To disable trees's shadows, could bDoCanopyShadowPass be used instead?

(There's also fCanopyShadowGrassMult but I have no idea of what it does)

Yep - I was about to post this too. There's also

iActorShadowIntMax=10
iActorShadowExtMax=10

but they don't affect trees AFAIK, just actor shadows. I think I can only turn tree shadows on or off.

@ Belanos: How would that be, would you still like tree shadows turned on and off depending on the weather (ie. if it's pleasant (clear), cloudy, raining or snowing)?

[Kristian Perez]

@ Belanos: How would that be, would you still like tree shadows turned on and off depending on the weather (ie. if it's pleasant (clear), cloudy, raining or snowing)?

My 2c would be shadows only if clear.

[Jade MacSpade]

@ Belanos: How would that be, would you still like tree shadows turned on and off depending on the weather (ie. if it's pleasant (clear), cloudy, raining or snowing)?

Yes, that would be fine. I really don't think you'd get much of an effect anyway just reducing it from 512 to 256. I think the only option really if you want it to be noticeable is simply to turn it on and off. So if it's Pleasant the canopy is at 512, any other weather type it would be 0. The same goes for actor shadows if you want to include those as well. I really don't see a big difference if Streamline is running actor shadows at 10 or 5. It would be best just to have them on and off. But keep in mind that if you're going to add actor shadows, you could be causing some conflicts with Streamline. Shadows is one of the first thing that Streamline reduces in my game so it could end up that your script is trying to increase the shadow count at the same time that Streamline is trying to reduce them.

[JR Cash]

Yes, that would be fine. I really don't think you'd get much of an effect anyway just reducing it from 512 to 256. I think the only option really if you want it to be noticeable is simply to turn it on and off. So if it's Pleasant the canopy is at 512, any other weather type it would be 0. The same goes for actor shadows if you want to include those as well.

Uh, I'll not be messing with iCanopyShadowScale, that doesn't have anything to do with shadow strength, but shadow quality. I'll be toggling bDoCanopyShadowPass instead, which is just 1 or 0. I think actor shadows are already lighting-aware, as they are actual dynamic shadows, and don't require me to do anything to them.

Anyway, I've made the changes, now to test them. To prevent thread derailment, I'll next be posting about this on the Enhanced Seasons thread.

[Unstoppable Judge]

Uh, I'll not be messing with iCanopyShadowScale, that doesn't have anything to do with shadow strength, but shadow quality. I'll be toggling bDoCanopyShadowPass instead, which is just 1 or 0.

I see. I have no problem with that approach then.

[Damian Parsons]

Hi. I've searched through the latest AN thread's and haven't been able to find a resolution to this issue so I hope I'm not digging up old ground, but I'm getting rather bright lighting/glare indoors.

I know this sort of thing has been mentioned in various posts, but I couldn't find any specific answer to resolve this issue. Is my installation broken? Is it just HDR? Are there specific HDR tweaks that alleviate the issue?

And yes, I have searched for the answers, but haven't really had much luck so far.

It's just bugging me, because it's the only slight problem to what is an otherwise fantastic mod. So I'm not trying to come across as rude or anything, I'm just keen to get this fixed/improved if possible.

I haven't done thorough testing as to which buildings and what weather types it occurs with, but at the moment it's sunny in Anvil, and the Anvil MG's front desk candles look like glow sticks! Plus other things that are just too bright.

I also get highly reflective/shiny windows indoors. And those reflections tend to switch quite quickly, between no shine and bright shine, if I move into a certain range of the window, or even just move the camera slightly while standing still. Particularly noticeable in Benirus Manor.

Any help or advice on this would be much appreciated. If you would like more info let me know. I don't intend to be one of those unhelpful posters who whinges about a problem and then doesn't give enough info to actually help fix the problem. I'm just not sure how much information is needed at this point and I don't want to list a bunch of meaningless stuff.

I use WB v287, BOSS for LO, and I have all 3 AN esp's (not using RL atm) selected in import cells and activated except the weather filter. I followed the instructions as closely as I could, and I think it's intalled ok, though I'm still learning WB and modding in general.

[Myles]

HDR inside and outside has been toned down for next release, which should solve your problems. I haven't had any, at least.

[Hope Greenhaw]

HDR inside and outside has been toned down for next release, which should solve your problems. I haven't had any, at least.

You might want to also consider making some adjustments to the Sunlight settings for indoors as well. I noticed that you are using the default sunlight value for all of your weathers, but those aren't necessarily the best, especially for indoors. I made some adjustments to a few weather patterns, changing the sunlight value in the process, and my interiors are coming out much better now. I don't use HDR or Bloom, and sometimes things were still coming out quite bright. I would make sense that sunlight would have somewhat different properties than outdoors considering the kinds of windows the light has to pass through. They're pretty much all pretty small, so it shouldn't be quite as bright inside as it is outside. No building is really, the light is generally more diffused unless it's coming right in the window.

PS: Try lowering all the indoor RGB values for Clear Sunlight by 16 or 32. I think you'll find that the indoor lighting will look better that way, more realistic.

[kevin ball]

Hi guys, is it normal that it rains under bridges?

Thanks

[Justin Bywater]

You might want to also consider making some adjustments to the Sunlight settings for indoors as well. I noticed that you are using the default sunlight value for all of your weathers, but those aren't necessarily the best, especially for indoors. I made some adjustments to a few weather patterns, changing the sunlight value in the process, and my interiors are coming out much better now. I don't use HDR or Bloom, and sometimes things were still coming out quite bright. I would make sense that sunlight would have somewhat different properties than outdoors considering the kinds of windows the light has to pass through. They're pretty much all pretty small, so it shouldn't be quite as bright inside as it is outside. No building is really, the light is generally more diffused unless it's coming right in the window.

PS: Try lowering all the indoor RGB values for Clear Sunlight by 16 or 32. I think you'll find that the indoor lighting will look better that way, more realistic.

I think it was Arthmoor that set the interior sunlight values, I thought they were lower than vanilla - certainly interior weathers are dimmer than their exterior counterparts. Maybe I'm thinking of something else... I'll take a look at your suggestion.

Hi guys, is it normal that it rains under bridges?

Thanks

Yes, no collision for rain.

[Amber Ably]

I think it was Arthmoor that set the interior sunlight values, I thought they were lower than vanilla - certainly interior weathers are dimmer than their exterior counterparts. Maybe I'm thinking of something else... I'll take a look at your suggestion.

No, for clear weather the sunlight values for all the weather types, indoors and out, are strictly vanilla. I just tried lowering all the RGB values with the indoor sunlight by 48 and it's looking pretty good now. I good test is in the Imperial City, specifically the floors. I found that on a bright day the colour of the tiles would be all washed out. You want to lower the values until that orangy-red colour is clearly visible.

BTW, how does the transition time options work? I currently have it turned on but set to the default of 1. What does that equate to as far as an actual time value, and how much change would there be for each increase in the multiplier?

[Jessica White]

The interior weather sunlight and ambient light values were largely arbitrary, but none of them should be going over 50. I would strongly advise not touching anything there until the clearHDR changes get merged into the master for 1.1 and THEN making an assessment about whether things are too bright or not because the HDR brightness values have all been tweaked to remove that nasty glare issue in clear weather. The other weather types shouldn't be an issue in the slightest. Reducing the RGB values by 32 will make nearly all indoor areas dark, even in daylight, which is simply ludicrous.

Non-windowed interiors were given a hard 20/20/20 value and should not need messing with.

[Blackdrak]

I would strongly advise not touching anything there until the clearHDR changes get merged into the master for 1.1 and THEN making an assessment about whether things are too bright or not because the HDR brightness values have all been tweaked to remove that nasty glare issue in clear weather.

Even without HDR or Bloom, the interior areas can be too bright on a clear day. I don't use either and I've noticed it.

Reducing the RGB values by 32 will make nearly all indoor areas dark, even in daylight, which is simply ludicrous.

You're mistaken. I've reduced them by 48 and it's just about right now. I'm only referring to the Sunlight values here, not the Ambient values. That's what causing the issue. They're far too high for an interior space, they're exactly the same as the values for the outside weather, and exactly the same as the vanilla values. It's the same for both indoors and outdoors for all clear weather types, nobody has made any changes to the default Sunlight values.

PS: Some examples:

MTClear01:

R: 255
G: 241
B: 223

InteriorMTClear01:

R: 255
G: 241
B: 223

Vanilla:

R: 255
G: 241
B: 223

Those values are high enough that they'll have a considerable impact on an interior scene, it's getting close to pure white, and there's lots of room for lowering them. I suspect that no one has thought about how much of an impact the Sunlight values can have on the game's lighting. It can be pretty substantial not just on the overall level but on the colour of a scene as well. It plays just as much of a role as the Ambient values do, if not more so.

PS: Try these values for interior clear Sunlight, they're working pretty good for my game so far:

R: 192
G: 160
B: 112

I prefer a warmer colour so you might not find the red to be what you want to see.

[Gracie Dugdale]

Wait, what changes is he going to make?

Yes, the filter has been updated with LMR cell support, and the plan was to include the transparent mesh modifications to the cathedrals as a patch option. There wouldn't need to be an ESP based patch since the filter will handle the climate part.

I fixed the exterior cathedrals so they match his interior changes. Those changes he will merge into his mod since they aren't a "patch" but something to make his mod better.

The actual AN patch files I've uploaded to 4Shared. This is the pack that we can include in the AN package for Losing My Religion users. And yes, you are right, no .esp is needed since his mod uses the default cathedral interior cells. Users just need to properly install AN and use the Bashed Patch plus Filter patch for everything to work.

Here's the file:

http://www.4shared.com/file/1anVwGU_/All_Natural-Losing_My_Religion.html

[Wanda Maximoff]

You're mistaken.

Actually, no, I'm not, but you didn't make it clear enough until now that you weren't referring to the ambient light values - lowering THOSE by 48 would make most interiors pitch black. Which is clearly not something we'd want.

No, I don't normally consider sunlight values because the ambient has such a huge effect on things. As does the brightness clamping we put in for 1.1, so in any case, it's not going to get messed with without some serious examination first.

[Dan Stevens]

Actually, no, I'm not, but you didn't make it clear enough until now that you weren't referring to the ambient light values

Or maybe you just weren't reading carefully enough:

"You might want to also consider making some adjustments to the Sunlight settings for indoors as well.

- lowering THOSE by 48 would make most interiors pitch black. Which is clearly not something we'd want.

Well yes, you don't want to change the Ambient values by 48. The highest one I've seen is only 45 to begin with. I just assumed we were on the same page.

No, I don't normally consider sunlight values because the ambient has such a huge effect on things.

You might want to look at it more thoroughly then since it's just as important as the Ambient value, if not more so. You might also want to also consider making some adjustments to those values for Sunsets/Sunrises for interiors, as I find them to be too strong as well. As it stands it's exactly the same as if you were outdoors, which doesn't make sense at all.

[Brooke Turner]

May I suggest, strongly, that you dial back the hostility vibe a bit? Others here will probably tell you that if I'm picking one up, it's not just imagination at play since I sometimes have one of my own.

It's hard to tell if you're just complaining about something not being right or if you're seriously demanding that we make a wholesale change to interior lighting that suits your style.

[Lynne Hinton]

May I suggest, strongly, that you dial back the hostility vibe a bit? Others here will probably tell you that if I'm picking one up, it's not just imagination at play since I sometimes have one of my own.

It's hard to tell if you're just complaining about something not being right or if you're seriously demanding that we make a wholesale change to interior lighting that suits your style.

It is truly not any of my business, but I think you're hostility radar is being a tiny bit over-sensitive at the moment . Sounds like a simple misunderstanding, looking at the posts I certainly don't see anybody 'demanding' anything whatsoever. Looking forward to the next release, thanks for the continued hard work!

[Yung Prince]

It's hard to tell if you're just complaining about something not being right or if you're seriously demanding that we make a wholesale change to interior lighting that suits your style.

I'm doing neither, I'm trying to offer some suggestions about some things that I've noticed. I've learned a thing or two about modifying weather with Fallout, I did a complete overhaul of all the weather systems in the game. And I can see some important areas that you're overlooking in this mod. The Sunlight values being a key one. If it's too strong then the colours in a scene become all washed out and you lose alot of overall detail. If it's too week then everything will look flat and lifeless. While adjusting the Ambient values is fine for an overall effect, if you don't also deal with the Sunlight ones your image is going to look like crap. The two go hand in hand. The Ambient values act like a fill light in photographic terms while the Sunlight deals with the highlights in an image. You can't adjust the one without affecting the other. There's really no need to have some fancy brightness clamp as you're suggesting, you only need to take a look at those values and bring them down in order to balance out the changes you made to the Ambient light. Try the ones I posted awhile back, you'll notice a drastic difference in your clear interiors. The over-brightness is one of the first things I noticed when I started using this mod, the floors in the IC shops were almost blinding me. And most of the colours in an area were all washed out.

PS: I really don't care whether you make a whole scale change or not. I'm fully capable of making the adjustments that are needed myself, which I'm currently in the process of doing. I'm basically transferring what I did with Fallout over to your current weather patterns to suit my own tastes. I'm simply trying to point out how you can improve this mod yourself.

[ShOrty]

Have you even looked at the clearHDR file? I can assure you beyond any doubt that it needed the brightness values to be clamped to much lower levels than they were set for initially. I did it originally just for the outdoors, and it's made a rather dramatic difference in things. Wrinklyninja already spent a great deal of time awhile back tweaking the outdoor HDR values for coloring and they look great that way. I don't think the outdoor weather coloring needs any tweaking at this point. If it does, then you can always mess with the RGB color settings in the ini file which should help with that.

I haven't seen the results of changing the brightness clamps indoors yet, so I'll reserve judgment on what else might be needed until after Wrinklyninja can get that ESM file over to me. I'm looking at some random indoor weathers in the copy I have now and they've not been adjusted yet.

[Bek Rideout]

Have you even looked at the clearHDR file?

No, just like you haven't looked at the Sunlight values.

Wrinklyninja already spent a great deal of time awhile back tweaking the outdoor HDR values for coloring and they look great that way.

Which is fine if you happen to be using HDR, but the issue we've been discussing has nothing to do with that. I don't use HDR or Bloom yet I can clearly see some problems with some of the interior light values, specifically the clear weather ones. Your HDR clamp is not going to help with that.

I don't think the outdoor weather coloring needs any tweaking at this point. If it does, then you can always mess with the RGB color settings in the ini file which should help with that.

I'm doing much more then tweaking, I'm overhauling almost everything the same way I did for Fallout. I have my own vision of how the game should look, I don't need to accept anyone's version of it. There'll be a number of weather patterns I leave as is, like the sunrise/sunsets, but the clear patterns are definitely all going to be changed to suit my personal tastes. For one thing, I don't like all the blue I'm seeing with that kind of weather, I prefer a warmer, more neutral tone. And I really, really don't like the way the engine draws out the end fog. I'm pushing it way back to 250,000 to avoid those big blobs of colour off in the distance.