[Donatus Uwasomba]

Double post, but regarding the short discussion about turning lights off, may I present you with http://obse.silverlock.org/obse_command_doc.html#GetLightRGB. It looks like it might be possible to turn off lights without disabling them, if the RGB values are set to zero. Turning them back on would require recording their original values with GetLightRGB before they're turned off, and then setting them later.

Am I right in thinking that this would be enough for lights without naked flames, and for lights with naked flames we would also use Add/RemoveFlames? If so, it sounds like a purely scripted approach, soley modifying lighting values and the presence of flames, is possible.

Unless there's something I don't know about that puts a spanner in these works?

I'm also looking at the possibility of using GetCellChanged to simplify AN's per-frame checks, but unfortunately it's bugged in the current release of OBSE v19 beta, which makes testing difficult.

[sally R]

Well the only two things I can think of that might muck up the works with the RGB values:

1. Setting 0,0,0 may not do what is desired. It'll need testing, but that might simply cause it to emit black colored light.

2. Possible bloat issues. Unless there's a way to discard the changes after you've left the cell, it seems to me that knocking out a bunch of lights is going to get permanently recorded in the save.

[Gisela Amaya]

Well the only two things I can think of that might muck up the works with the RGB values:

1. Setting 0,0,0 may not do what is desired. It'll need testing, but that might simply cause it to emit black colored light.

2. Possible bloat issues. Unless there's a way to discard the changes after you've left the cell, it seems to me that knocking out a bunch of lights is going to get permanently recorded in the save.

Hadn't thought of those. I just assumed for the second that changes would be runtime-only, and be discarded when you exit the game, much like the weather changing functions behave. I'll ask in the OBSE thread though.

[Veronica Flores]

not sure if this is something to do with All Natural or not but does All Natural change anything with the night sky? I was taking a swim around the water front in the IC when I noticed during a clear night the planet or moon was missing. here's a screen shot notice the missing section of stars. it's about 2/3 up in the center http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w139/tatts4life_photos/Oblivion%20Glitches/ScreenShot139.jpg

[Sarah Kim]

not sure if this is something to do with All Natural or not but does All Natural change anything with the night sky? I was taking a swim around the water front in the IC when I noticed during a clear night the planet or moon was missing. here's a screen shot notice the missing section of stars. it's about 2/3 up in the center http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w139/tatts4life_photos/Oblivion%20Glitches/ScreenShot139.jpg

Probably just New Moon day. Try waiting a couple days and see if it comes back (it should).

EDIT: to actually answer the question: no, AN does nothing to the night skies.

[Penny Wills]

Probably just New Moon day. Try waiting a couple days and see if it comes back (it should).

This is the first time I've ever really payed attention to the sky. Plus I forgot the game had moon phases.

[Juan Cerda]

Just installed the mod and looks great! Just one question though... why is it raining indoors? I have searched but cannot find a straight answer to how to fix the problem.

[Elizabeth Falvey]

Just installed the mod and looks great! Just one question though... why is it raining indoors? I have searched but cannot find a straight answer to how to fix the problem.

It's raining indoors because something is interfering with AN, most likely. Post your load order, and tell us what interior you're in, and we might be able to help.

[mishionary]

Oblivion.esm
All Natural Base.esm
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm
Beautiful_Women_NiceOnly.esp
Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
All Natural - Real Lights.esp
All Natural.esp
All Natural - SI.esp
Living Economy.esp
Living Economy - Items.esp
ExnemEyeCandy.esp
Deceiver's Armour.esp
HellSpawnDaedric for Exnem.esp
Seductress Armour.esp
StockClothingArmorBBBHGEC_Standard_ECupLBotPPN.esp
Opale armor for Exnem body.esp
Immersive Interiors.esp
Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp
GoddessArmor_Exnem.esp
Emerald armor for Exnem body.esp
Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp
OOO-WaterFish.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Get Wet.esp
Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Thats my load order.
I was in the Inn by the gate in Skingrad (not three sisters, the other one)

Thanks

[Ownie Zuliana]

I'm most suspicious of Get Wet, since that's to do with rain and all, and I haven't used that in ages so I don't know how it plays with AN. Are you using the updated version, BTW? Try disabling it anyway, and see if the rain stops appearing inside.

[Paula Rose]

I'm most suspicious of Get Wet, since that's to do with rain and all, and I haven't used that in ages so I don't know how it plays with AN. Are you using the updated version, BTW? Try disabling it anyway, and see if the rain stops appearing inside.

I doubt that Get Wet is the culprit. I've used both mods for years now and I've never seen it rain inside.

[Prue]

I doubt that Get Wet is the culprit. I've used both mods for years now and I've never seen it rain inside.

Hmm, OK. I can't think why else it would rain inside, the rest of the mods are either item mods or ones I play with. The climate setting is correct in All Natural.esp...

@ Snillum: Did you make sure to import cells from All Natural.esp into your Bashed Patch?

[Taylor Thompson]

Well, it seems http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23757 and All Natural won't play nicely with each other.
I first created my character and chose an Inn in Leyawiin as starting location, haveing disabled All Natural and some other mods from my mod list. The I saved, exited, reenabled All Natural, rebuild BP and loaded the game. But what I feared would happen, happens: weather changes nearly every time I change from interior to exterior cell.
No such problem with full mod list except All Natural.

I'm gonna try Cliffworm's Roleplaying Beginnings and see if that works better.

BTW, using no alternate beginning mod, but instead COC'ing out from the prison cell, will that break All Natural in any way? In case the problem persists with Roleplaying Beginnings I want to test with no alternate beginning mod, but I don't want to go through the whole tutorial dungeon just for testing.

[Stace]

Is All Natural compatible with http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18407 ? It changes interiors quite a bit. Also is QTP redimized ok to use with AN?

[Gill Mackin]

Q is fine, it just depends on your hardware. Even at 512mb it can be hard depending on what else you are using. There is a package that further reduces redimized version, or you can use other ones.

[Paula Ramos]

Well, it seems http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23757 and All Natural won't play nicely with each other.
I first created my character and chose an Inn in Leyawiin as starting location, haveing disabled All Natural and some other mods from my mod list. The I saved, exited, reenabled All Natural, rebuild BP and loaded the game. But what I feared would happen, happens: weather changes nearly every time I change from interior to exterior cell.
No such problem with full mod list except All Natural.

I'm gonna try Cliffworm's Roleplaying Beginnings and see if that works better.

BTW, using no alternate beginning mod, but instead COC'ing out from the prison cell, will that break All Natural in any way? In case the problem persists with Roleplaying Beginnings I want to test with no alternate beginning mod, but I don't want to go through the whole tutorial dungeon just for testing.

I don't see why it would matter, even if you saved in an odd spot. How long did you give AN to settle in before you started testing that? Can you see what happens if you repeat that scenario but make the game wait 24 hrs or something? It may just be an issue of timing and variables not getting setup right.

The only other possibility, which is remote at best, is that the start mod you're using doesn't properly terminate the chargen quest. Not doing that properly has been known to throw off all sorts of things and it wouldn't surprise me if weather handling is one of them.

Is All Natural compatible with http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18407 ? It changes interiors quite a bit. Also is QTP redimized ok to use with AN?

If the cathedral mod changes the cathedral meshes in any way, one of two things will happen:

1. Their meshes will assert and you won't see the transparent AN versions indoors. This can only happen if they change the meshes and redirect the static definitions for them.
2. AN will cause their meshes to be ignored and you'll see our versions instead. This would happen if their meshes are a straight replacer and no changes to the static definitions are made.

QTP3 is 100% compatible with AN, in any form.

[Michelle Smith]

Q is fine, it just depends on your hardware. Even at 512mb it can be hard depending on what else you are using. There is a package that further reduces redimized version, or you can use other ones.

Actually I was more worried about possible mesh conflicts or something like that. The game runs fairly well with qtp r and the host of other mods I'm using including the real lights part of AN. Real lights is the most demanding part of this mod isn't it? Those immersive interiors look very enticing however...

Don't know if it's possible but it would be great to have moon beams with dust motes coming through windows at night similar to Thief: Deadly Shadows.

[Schel[Anne]FTL]

Well, it seems http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23757 and All Natural won't play nicely with each other.
I first created my character and chose an Inn in Leyawiin as starting location, haveing disabled All Natural and some other mods from my mod list. The I saved, exited, reenabled All Natural, rebuild BP and loaded the game. But what I feared would happen, happens: weather changes nearly every time I

What happens when after creating the character and having them placed in the world that you disable Start Choices then enable AN?

Is there a reason to keep start choices active?

I've heard of this conflict before but never details.

[Hazel Sian ogden]

I don't see why it would matter, even if you saved in an odd spot. How long did you give AN to settle in before you started testing that? Can you see what happens if you repeat that scenario but make the game wait 24 hrs or something? It may just be an issue of timing and variables not getting setup right.

The only other possibility, which is remote at best, is that the start mod you're using doesn't properly terminate the chargen quest. Not doing that properly has been known to throw off all sorts of things and it wouldn't surprise me if weather handling is one of them.



If the cathedral mod changes the cathedral meshes in any way, one of two things will happen:

1. Their meshes will assert and you won't see the transparent AN versions indoors. This can only happen if they change the meshes and redirect the static definitions for them.
2. AN will cause their meshes to be ignored and you'll see our versions instead. This would happen if their meshes are a straight replacer and no changes to the static definitions are made.

QTP3 is 100% compatible with AN, in any form.

Cool, the cathedral mod doesn't touch the meshes - it's only composed of an esp and some sound files. It rearranges the interior slightly but does add a lot of lighting effects and gregorian chanting. Seems like the big confict would be with the lighting.

[Blackdrak]

I don't see why it would matter, even if you saved in an odd spot. How long did you give AN to settle in before you started testing that? Can you see what happens if you repeat that scenario but make the game wait 24 hrs or something? It may just be an issue of timing and variables not getting setup right.

The only other possibility, which is remote at best, is that the start mod you're using doesn't properly terminate the chargen quest. Not doing that properly has been known to throw off all sorts of things and it wouldn't surprise me if weather handling is one of them

I did another test, now with Cliffworm's mod. First I created a character with All Natural disabled and saved. Then added All Natural, loaded the game, waited half a minute and the waited for36 hours. Still the same problem - weather change at almost every cell transition.

Will try again with no alternate start mod loaded, COC to Weye and see how that works out.
If there's still problems I guess I'll just have to try again the hard way, by disabling some of the mods, test, rince and repeat.

What happens when after creating the character and having them placed in the world that you disable Start Choices then enable AN?
Is there a reason to keep start choices active?

Yes, as it deactivates items and dialogue pertaining to the Main Quest and also changes some quests and dialogue, so it definitely needs to be installed as long as you haven't completed the Main Quest.

[Laura Richards]

I did another test, now with Cliffworm's mod. First I created a character with All Natural disabled and saved. Then added All Natural, loaded the game, waited half a minute and the waited for36 hours. Still the same problem - weather change at almost every cell transition.

Will try again with no alternate start mod loaded, COC to Weye and see how that works out.
If there's still problems I guess I'll just have to try again the hard way, by disabling some of the mods, test, rince and repeat.

What about creating a character with AN enabled? I use CDM's Character Generation Overhaul (which sadly isn't available any more), and that's never given me any problems. I don't think there's anything specific to alt start mods that would make them cause problems for AN specifically, though it's important to note that you may get a few weather changes across the first few transitions as AN's variables get populated.

On an unrelated note, below is an OBSE v19 script that, when attached to any light, allows you to turn it on or off by activating it:

scn LightTestarray_var rgbarray_var rgbbaseshort flamesshort waitBegin OnActivatelet rgb := GetLightRGBif Eval (rgb[0] + rgb[1] + rgb[2] > 0)	let rgbbase := rgb	SetLightRGB ar_List 0 0 0	set flames to 1elseif Eval (rgb[0] + rgb[1] + rgb[2] == 0)	SetLightRGB rgbbase	set flames to 2endifUpdate3Dprintc "LightTggle"EndBegin GameModeif wait	if CanHaveFlames		if flames == 1			RemoveFlames		else			AddFlames		endif	endif	set wait to 0	set flames to 0endifif flames	set wait to 1endifEnd

This has a few limitations:
1. Update3D is needed to make the lighting changes immediate. However, this makes the object flicker. I'm pretty sure all current on/off mods have the same problem though, as they enable/disable two different objects, which is essentially what Update3D does, but to 1 object, I think.
2. I have no idea how you'd go about getting arrows, etc. to toggle the light - OnHitWith is ideal, but only works with actors and activators, AFAIK. On the plus side, it's pretty simple for magic hits to work.

Still, it is of some interest, and I thought I'd record it here.

[Zoe Ratcliffe]

I did another test, now with Cliffworm's mod. First I created a character with All Natural disabled and saved. Then added All Natural, loaded the game, waited half a minute and the waited for36 hours. Still the same problem - weather change at almost every cell transition.

Have you tried with Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp? That's the one I use, and AN has never had any issue with it. Though I've always started with AN and the alt-start mod enabled from the beginning. I might be missing the point.

Realistically what you're doing should be no different than someone coming along well after having played for ages and then installing AN, and I know that's always worked for me because I've done any number of clean save tests on that.

[leni]

Have you tried with Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp? That's the one I use, and AN has never had any issue with it. Though I've always started with AN and the alt-start mod enabled from the beginning. I might be missing the point.

Realistically what you're doing should be no different than someone coming along well after having played for ages and then installing AN, and I know that's always worked for me because I've done any number of clean save tests on that.

Haven't tried Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp since it limits you to Anvil.

But I did a test with no alternate start mods and using the Immediate Character Generation.esp instead. Then I waited 24 hours and COC'ed to Weye. And now it worked as it should - no weather changes on cell transitions!
So the problem is solvable.
Will try Cliffworm's mod again (since that's the one I really prefer) with AN enabled from the start If that doesn't work I'll try Alternative Start by Robert Evrae.esp, and possible try with both an alternate start mod as well as Character Generation.esp.

[Liv Staff]

It may just be an issue of timing and variables not getting setup right.

Looks like this may be the case. Starting in a city I experience random weather changes, but if I COC to Weye and then to another city the weather stays stable
Need to do some more testing, though.

[amhain]

I think I've figured it out.
The weather only starts working properly when you enter the Tamriel Worldspace.
Just did a test. Started in an inn in Leyawiin and the weather changed on cell transitions. Then left the city and went in an out the door of the stables without any weather changes. Entered the city again and was able to walk in and out of the inn without weather transitions.