[RELz] Weather: All Natural, Thread 31 : IV - Oblivion

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:08 pm

Changing textures on the ground dynamically probably isn't possible, but hey, with OBSE you really never know what they can pull off.

Reneer may be the one to prod about how to go about using dynamically placed objects to serve as puddles. His interiors mod is already doing a huge amount of work for generating exterior views on the fly so he may know of a way to accomplish something like this.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:00 am

If you've got the scripting resources to mathematically anolyse landscaping then you could throw down (say) ten puddle spots at random locations in a loaded cell and then use a search space algorithm to check if any adjacent location is lower than the current location. That's pretty well-known math, though it can be computationally expensive. On the other hand, all you really need to do in this case is make sure there's no adjacent location that's lower than the current location for it to look ok: you don't necessarily need to find the global minimum in a given cell, just a few local minima and that's much less expensive. After checking the adjacent spaces, you can move your search point to the new lowest local minimum and then re-run the search until you no longer find a lower adjacent location. That'll give you several puddles per cell, shouldn't take *too* much CPU power and should look pretty good. If you throw in a catch for overly steep drops (hillsides/cliffs) that terminates the puddle-placement-process for that puddle that could also save some computational resources and avoid wierdness.

Vac

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:04 pm

; ==========================================================================
; | Colour Tints : Adjust the colour of weather types' tinting in Tamriel |
; ==========================================================================

set ANVars.CTEnabled to 1 ; Enable/Disable Enhanced Colours for SI. (0)

shouldn't it say, Enable/Disable Enhanced Colors for Tamriel?

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:37 pm

shouldn't it say, Enable/Disable Enhanced Colors for Tamriel?

Depends on your https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-our.2C_-or, I favour the current spelling

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:59 pm

Depends on your https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-our.2C_-or, I favour the current spelling

He is correct about the part where it says SI and should say Tamriel though Not something that really matters however.

But indeed, I definitely prefer colour over color.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:49 am

Hello friends,

Today I have made tremendous progress and have completed 7 more Dementia houses! Quite amazing progress really, amazing what 8 hours straight can do for you...so I only have 6 more meshes and they are all very easy. I will get them done very, very quickly so at last NIW part of AN shall be complete.

Perhaps screenshots tomorrow, too tired today, must rest so I can perhaps finish it all tomorrow.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:23 am

shouldn't it say, Enable/Disable Enhanced Colors for Tamriel?

Depends on your https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#-our.2C_-or, I favour the current spelling

The comment for that setting should say Tamriel, not SI, yes. As for color/colour, I'm a British English speaker and writer, but an American English programmer.

So for me, colour is correct.

Hello friends,

Today I have made tremendous progress and have completed 7 more Dementia houses! Quite amazing progress really, amazing what 8 hours straight can do for you...so I only have 6 more meshes and they are all very easy. I will get them done very, very quickly so at last NIW part of AN shall be complete.

Perhaps screenshots tomorrow, too tired today, must rest so I can perhaps finish it all tomorrow.

Excellent news! I've been running around SI testing stuff and have been greatly enjoying your work there so far, including the AWLS textures.

(Any plans to do matching interior AN options for the AWLS exterior options?)

EDIT: I've been fixing bugs in the SI weather system, and it seems to be working now. Just in case I did break everything, I've uploaded my latest changes in a new plugin (same name though) http://www.4shared.com/file/9aXMCAeG/AN_Scripts_2.html. Could anyone in SI at the moment please test to see if I missed anything?

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:03 pm

You've reminded me--mostly off topic, sorry--I wonder if there's much demand for Illumination Within-style nighttime windows in Shivering Isles? I know AWLS is pretty much the solution for window lights, but I'm very picky and can't do without the actual light sources, so I stuck with IWRR after trying out AWLS. Maybe an expansion of IW for SI can be my first torturous mod project to stumble through! For the other two or three people out there who stuck with IW because they think actual light sources on the windows make things more pretty.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:47 am

You've reminded me--mostly off topic, sorry--I wonder if there's much demand for Illumination Within-style nighttime windows in Shivering Isles? I know AWLS is pretty much the solution for window lights, but I'm very picky and can't do without the actual light sources, so I stuck with IWRR after trying out AWLS. Maybe an expansion of IW for SI can be my first torturous mod project to stumble through! For the other two or three people out there who stuck with IW because they think actual light sources on the windows make things more pretty.

Well, I liked the actual lights of IW, but they just hit performance a bit too hard on top of everything else for me, IIRC. What I'd envisage for such a mod made now would be more of a 'Real Lights for AWLS', which would just add light sources outside windows, since AWLS does the texture swapping best already. You could probably even script this, if Reneer's recent work is anything to go by.

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:33 pm

Yeah, sometimes I wonder if my tolerance for playing the game at sub-30fps is due to Morrowind crippling my computer back when it first came out. I associate Elder Scrolls games with low framerates apparently. When I first installed Oblivion six months or so ago it ran close to 60fps, and as the mods piled on that number got lower and lower. Also that black sky screenshot from a while back was from 1100mb of textures trying to load on my 1gb video card (but no more crashes or black textures now after I installed QTP3 Redimized hooray).

Anyway, that's actually a much better idea. I suggested the SI extension of IWRR mostly because I have no modding experience and it seemed like it might be more suited to my lack of skills. But perhaps with some time I may be capable of what you're suggesting, if someone doesn't get on it first. It's definitely a niche kind of demand, but adding a "real lights" option on top of AWLS would make it more complete, I suppose, at least for people like me who don't mind sacrificing framerate for that extra bit of beauty. Perhaps you'll see a new post on the mod forum in a couple months announcing this, heh. My Oblivion-related free time is currently focused on the website I announced my presence with that's like a vastly expanded version of your environment mod list (http://i52.tinypic.com/246417m.jpg because I'm obsessed with finding nice color combinations). I spent the holidays paging through literally thousands of mods just to make sure it will be as complete as possible.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:21 am

I would like to say, this is really the best weather mod ever created!

However, I realized that my windows although translucent, are currently tinted quite blue. As i have installed immersive interiors, the exteriors cannot really be seen with this blue tinting of the windows. Are the windows really tinted blue, as from some of the screenshots i have seen, the windows are really transparent.

Mods i have that may have an effect:
All Natural (of course)
AN Scripts
Immersive Interiors with Lights Addon
OBGE?
Animated Window Lighting System with Brumbek Mixed Textures

Also, I have imported all the cells while rebuilding my bashed patch. Can anyone help?

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:08 pm

It's not blue like http://lh4.ggpht.com/_77B7B8HgEWM/TSPphBCEYfI/AAAAAAAAAEk/EnDX5QGfuN0/s912/%231017%23%20Looking%20Out%20a%20Window%20in%20Chorrol%20%28Thanks%20to%20Immersive%20Interiors%29.jpg or http://i53.tinypic.com/i5pusz.jpg, is it? If so then it's normal I think, but different windows have different kinds of "glass" (or sometimes none at all), for me at least.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:55 am

I can't remember, is it normal to have cloudy (pre-storm) weather in Cheydinhal and clear weather outside of Cheydinhal, even after running back and forth through the get a couple times? It was pretty consistent, ha-ha. Also, sunrise is too early for my tastes, and sunset is too late...but I guess I should be using Enhanced Seasons to change that. Okay, well, otherwise, everything looks beautiful as usual.

Thanks again!
- Tomlong75210

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:38 am

I can't remember, is it normal to have cloudy (pre-storm) weather in Cheydinhal and clear weather outside of Cheydinhal, even after running back and forth through the get a couple times?

Nope.

Could you send me an appropriate save so I can take a closer look?

On a happier note, daysire has completed the German translation of 1.1, which can be found http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=27&func=fileinfo&id=2165 and http://www.egg-of-time.us/portal/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1178. This replaces the very old 0.9.4 translation previously available on the former site. I have updated the Nexus page mirrors to take account of this.

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:37 pm

When can we expect version 1.2 to be released? I'm still having trouble with rapidly changing weather, and I thought I read that 1.2 will fix that.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:52 am

@many UK ppl: ahah british english. Didn't see that coming.
@brumbek: Good. =) 1.2 is being anxiously waited.

So, the reason of the post is that I noticed http://img840.imageshack.us/i/buggwenfarmanvillightal.gif/ Is that a misplacement?

=)

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:20 pm

Nope.

Could you send me an appropriate save so I can take a closer look?

On a happier note, daysire has completed the German translation of 1.1, which can be found http://www.scharesoft.de/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=27&func=fileinfo&id=2165 and http://www.egg-of-time.us/portal/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1178. This replaces the very old 0.9.4 translation previously available on the former site. I have updated the Nexus page mirrors to take account of this.

I save pretty regularly, so that may be a possibility. I'll let you know by tomorrow, anyway.

Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

Edit: Well, I didn't catch it going back to those saves, but if I notice that behavior again I'll make a note of it. Thanks for the reply anyway!

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:40 pm

Well, I liked the actual lights of IW, but they just hit performance a bit too hard on top of everything else for me, IIRC. What I'd envisage for such a mod made now would be more of a 'Real Lights for AWLS', which would just add light sources outside windows, since AWLS does the texture swapping best already. You could probably even script this, if Reneer's recent work is anything to go by.

Wow, this is a phenomenal idea! +1 genius to wrinklyninja. Everybody agrees the real lights in IW are better than AWLS, but previously the performance hit was too much. Course, my major reason for using AWLS has always been the inconsistency between vanilla and mod-added stuff having no lights at night. So you're saying there might be a way to add actual lights through scripting by somehow referencing the window locations in the .nif? That'd be great for sure.

I do like the idea of adding lighting to AWLS for at least non-modded locations, but unless there's some way to make it work for all mods, then that goes against AWLS universal compatibility goal.

About Dementia, yes, it is done, yes, you read that correctly.

Shivering Isles is Now Complete!! This also means all Natural Interiors support is Now Complete!! After years of working, my life is Now Complete!!

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia05.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia04.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia03.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia02.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia01.jpg

http://www.4shared.com/file/UYGwIJVX/AllNatural-v1-2-BrumbekCumulat.html that combines all my prior stuff that will be merged into AN v1.2.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:51 am

When can we expect version 1.2 to be released? I'm still having trouble with rapidly changing weather, and I thought I read that 1.2 will fix that.

Are you using the Scripts fix? You shouldn't still be getting fast weather if you are...

Shivering Isles is Now Complete!! This also means all Natural Interiors support is Now Complete!! After years of working, my life is Now Complete!!

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia05.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia04.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia03.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia02.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/Dementia01.jpg

http://www.4shared.com/file/UYGwIJVX/AllNatural-v1-2-BrumbekCumulat.html that combines all my prior stuff that will be merged into AN v1.2.

Very good news.

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:33 pm

Awesome! I for one am super thankful for all of the hard work you and the whole team has put into All Natural. The main reason I keep this thread open in a tab and occasionally ask off-topic questions is because I admire the combined modding wisdom between everyone active in this thread and I doubt there's anywhere else on the same level (unless there's like some IRC channel all the experienced modders hang out in). But it's good to hear I'm not the only one with a special place in my heart for Illumination Within's lights, heh. Once I finish my massive website project I'm going to dive head first into the Construction Set and see if I'm capable of making that optional "real lighting" addition to AWLS (I'm slightly terrified to be honest lololol). And of course that is if someone more experienced doesn't work on it in the next month or two before I get started. Anyway it's good to hear I can finally venture into Shivering Isles knowing it's truly complete! I've spent so much time obsessing over mods I've had the game for six months and haven't even gone east of the Imperial City.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:03 am

Oh boy. Doom upon us all, for Brumbek has completed his task before mine!

Sorry, but I'm calling delay on 1.2 until I can get at least one city fully covered by rain/snow boxes. Which won't happen until I finish with beta testing for the Faregyl update. Yeah, you heard it here second, that's getting close. Not too much longer hopefully as I and my testers aren't finding much left to fix.

Then I'll be able to finish off Chorrol and 1.2 will be ready. Full coverage from the weather boxes is not expected for some time due to the enormous number of locations that need to be hit up.

As for this RL+AWLS thing, if someone is intending on having a light source attached to the mesh come on and off, certainly I'd be all for that. I can't see much point in trying to do an entire ESP devoted to that purpose because it would be instantly incompatible with any mod anywhere than either moves an existing building or places a new one. IW got abandoned because that mode of thinking is too rigid and labor intensive. So I'd suggest if someone wants to take a go at it (not me, I'm not on speaking terms with Blender) that they take one or two widely used meshes and experiment there first.

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:21 pm

As for this RL+AWLS thing, if someone is intending on having a light source attached to the mesh come on and off, certainly I'd be all for that. I can't see much point in trying to do an entire ESP devoted to that purpose because it would be instantly incompatible with any mod anywhere than either moves an existing building or places a new one. IW got abandoned because that mode of thinking is too rigid and labor intensive. So I'd suggest if someone wants to take a go at it (not me, I'm not on speaking terms with Blender) that they take one or two widely used meshes and experiment there first.

I was more thinking of a scripted approach, finding out where the windows are on meshes and placing lights there, but I'm not sure what's possible, that was just going off Reneer's Rain mod's work. Attaching to the mesh sounds like another good idea, though isn't there some issue with that? Otherwise I'm not sure why we didn't do that for the ayleid stones in RL, I'm pretty sure that there was a reason we didn't do it...

» Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:25 pm

Now that I think about it, yeah, the reason we didn't go that route is because attaching a light node to a mesh isn't enough. It would need to become a light source for that to work, and that wouldn't be possible to substitute in without needing ESP changes to go with it, which just brings us right back to incompatibilities galore.

It didn't help any that the functions of welkynd and varla stones are hardcoded into the engine.

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:34 am

Are you using the Scripts fix? You shouldn't still be getting fast weather if you are...

What script fix?

Oh boy. Doom upon us all, for Brumbek has completed his task before mine!

Sorry, but I'm calling delay on 1.2 until I can get at least one city fully covered by rain/snow boxes. Which won't happen until I finish with beta testing for the Faregyl update. Yeah, you heard it here second, that's getting close. Not too much longer hopefully as I and my testers aren't finding much left to fix.

Then I'll be able to finish off Chorrol and 1.2 will be ready. Full coverage from the weather boxes is not expected for some time due to the enormous number of locations that need to be hit up.

As for this RL+AWLS thing, if someone is intending on having a light source attached to the mesh come on and off, certainly I'd be all for that. I can't see much point in trying to do an entire ESP devoted to that purpose because it would be instantly incompatible with any mod anywhere than either moves an existing building or places a new one. IW got abandoned because that mode of thinking is too rigid and labor intensive. So I'd suggest if someone wants to take a go at it (not me, I'm not on speaking terms with Blender) that they take one or two widely used meshes and experiment there first.

What are these weather boxes you speak of?

» Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:07 am

But it's good to hear I'm not the only one with a special place in my heart for Illumination Within's lights, heh. Once I finish my massive website project I'm going to dive head first into the Construction Set and see if I'm capable of making that optional "real lighting" addition to AWLS.

You can theoretically run IW (any variation of it) and AWLS at the same time. I've never tried this but often thought I should try it. Anyone ever tried this? As for doing a IW version of AWLS, it seems all the tedious work is already done by IW, which you could almost copy directly.

But yes, some way of scripting lights to be attached to all windows would be best, but I believe Reneer said it wasn't possible to pinpoint exact faces/vertices in a mesh...so I really don't know how a scripted solution could work...but anyway, enough about AWLS.

Full coverage from the weather boxes is not expected for some time due to the enormous number of locations that need to be hit up.

I'm eager to see these weather boxes in action...and given my sudden completion of NIW I perhaps could help you with this...