[Trish]

Well, my reply to that is the same as to every other complaint made about how weathers look (admittedly, not many): you've got to give me more to work with than that before I can do anything about it. If a specific weather doesn't look good, tell me which weather specifically that is. There is a weather debug ring available for this purpose.

Sorry, I don't plan to give you or AN develop team more work.
Maybe I'm not very sure of my purpose. At first I was only a little anoyed that some new weather effects are not as good as their original mod, and even worse than vanilla. Fanolly I only wonder the reason of that. I'm not very farmiliar with mechanism of AN and was told they all use same textures, so I guess the unified scripts and overall settings are not suitable for every types of weather. And now I know that although textures are same, special adjusting is still needed to archieve best effect.
Well, special adjusting for every weather (texture, parameter, script, etc.) is a complex work, and I think it isn't worth doing except that is one's job or interest.
Visual effect is not necessary for me, but if I don't know why, it will leave a pity in my heart for giving up new weather effect.
So, there is no need to special adjusting for my complaint, and I have already found vanilla weather effect is enough for me.

[Lauren Graves]

They do use the same textures. Those were all taken from the original mods and unless Wrinklyninja did some tweaking, they haven't changed.

What has changed though is the HDR strength. Without having done that, everything had that nasty nuclear bright glow. It was rather bad before we figured out what to change to bring it down to acceptable levels.

The script has really very little to do with all this other than to pick one when the time is right. Each weather still has its individual characteristics. So we really would need to know specifically which one is at issue here. Simply telling us they're all borked isn't going to cut it because that's simply not true.

[Bad News Rogers]

They do use the same textures. Those were all taken from the original mods and unless Wrinklyninja did some tweaking, they haven't changed.

What has changed though is the HDR strength. Without having done that, everything had that nasty nuclear bright glow. It was rather bad before we figured out what to change to bring it down to acceptable levels.

The script has really very little to do with all this other than to pick one when the time is right. Each weather still has its individual characteristics. So we really would need to know specifically which one is at issue here. Simply telling us they're all borked isn't going to cut it because that's simply not true.

Well I haven't finish my last post, when editing to add some examples (though I don't demand them to be adjusted) I saw your post.

Here are some examples about some issues. (I didn't active HDR and only use a normal 17 inch LCD). Some examples I have mentioned before and I hope you both have fully read my posts.
AWS type, sunny or cloudless day, strongly red light while sunset, the red light make my eyes ached. (And I haven't active AWS again since this first try.)
NW type, sunny day, no blur around sun and little blurred mist near horizon, making the sky have no colour trasition form sun to horizon, all is pure blue.
NW type, cloudless day, with little misty thin cloud in blue sky, so the cloud looks like thin smoke with a little purple colour (perhaps due to grey cloud adding blue sky), sunshine in this weather is still bright, but this weather belongs to cloudy, so street lamps is still lighting in day.
Some heavy fog weather (I'm not sure which type, maybe NW or AWS), some small objects such as iron bars close to player charactor become nearly white , while bigger objects such as hills, towers and city walls far away remain as white or black outline.
EW type, (heavy) fog day (including fog storm day), hills remain pure white outline in the white fog, and especial when storm with fog, sky remains a overcast sky with no white fog (this feature may be real, but compared to bright sky, fog is too heavy for rainy day). This feature is similar to vanilla weather, so I don't know whether it is due to EW, but at least it is not a drawback of vanilla.

Well, I only remember these. Some other effects about shower, rain and storm are not remembered clearly now.
So I think AN is not really perfect in visual details , the more weather feature added, the more problems it will come. And a complex weather without well adjusting will not as good as vanilla weather.

ps. when I was trying original NW I found a heavy fog day with no outline left in the white fog. I'm not sure I have seen same sub-type in NW of AN, but at least I remember one heavy fog weather in NW of AN leaves objects far away black outline, and I have never seen a fog of AN make things far away disapear into white fog. If there isn't any other heavy fog, the two will be a same weather, then I wonder using same texure why they are not the same.

[Kristian Perez]

Well I haven't finish my last post, when editing to add some examples (though I don't demand them to be adjusted) I saw your post.

Here are some examples about some issues. (I didn't active HDR and only use a normal 17 inch LCD). Some examples I have mentioned before and I hope you both have fully read my posts.
AWS type, sunny or cloudless day, strongly red light while sunset, the red light make my eyes ached. (And I haven't active AWS again since this first try.)
NW type, sunny day, no blur around sun and little blurred mist near horizon, making the sky have no colour trasition form sun to horizon, all is pure blue.
NW type, cloudless day, with little misty thin cloud in blue sky, so the cloud looks like thin smoke with a little purple colour (perhaps due to grey cloud adding blue sky), sunshine in this weather is still bright, but this weather belongs to cloudy, so street lamps is still lighting in day.
Some heavy fog weather (I'm not sure which type, maybe NW or AWS), some small objects such as iron bars close to player charactor become nearly white , while bigger objects such as hills, towers and city walls far away remain as white or black outline.
EW type, (heavy) fog day (including fog storm day), hills remain pure white outline in the white fog, and especial when storm with fog, sky remains a overcast sky with no white fog (this feature may be real, but compared to bright sky, fog is too heavy for rainy day). This feature is similar to vanilla weather, so I don't know whether it is due to EW, but at least it is not a drawback of vanilla.

Well, I only remember these. Some other effects about shower, rain and storm are not remembered clearly now.
So I think AN is not really perfect in visual details , the more weather feature added, the more problems it will come. And a complex weather without well adjusting will not as good as vanilla weather.

ps. when I was trying original NW I found a heavy fog day with no outline left in the white fog. I'm not sure I have seen same sub-type in NW of AN, but at least I remember one heavy fog weather in NW of AN leaves objects far away black outline, and I have never seen a fog of AN make things far away disapear into white fog. If there isn't any other heavy fog, the two will be a same weather, then I wonder using same texure why they are not the same.

Look, I am this close to ignoring you from now on unless you start providing some actual details. All you've posted so far are long, difficult to read complaints about the quality of weathers in All Natural, displaying little to no knowledge or research into how AN actually works. You're also complaining about stuff which is purely game engine mechanics, like the fog blending.

ATM your posts are just a bunch of near-meaningless incredibly vague waffle to me. You don't think AN is perfect. That's great, everybody has an opinion. I don't think AN is perfect either, not least because it's something I've had input in. However, if you really expect me to do anything about it, you need to give concrete, useable details. If you don't expect me to do anything about it, can you please stop giving me a headache?

EDIT: By details, I don't mean:

"I thought I saw a weather that I think was from AWS, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it had a bit of blue in the sky, but the clouds looked really flat and the shading didn't look natural. Also the sunlight wasn't shading the mountains right. It doesn't look like the vanilla clear, which is much more orange."

I mean:

"Found a weather I think could do with improving. 020064EF's sunlight doesn't match the tint of the colours for the rest of the weather, and the lower clouds look too dark a grey compared with the rest of the weather, and other weathers of its type."

There are roughly 120 weathers in AN. I'm not wasting my time searching through them looking for possible matches to your descriptions when you could save me the effort by downloading and activating one more plugin, then performing one extra keystroke.

[Princess Johnson]

Wenwu, please read the PM I've sent you before you post here again.

I'm pretty sure this guy's English is causing over half the problems, and guessing from the style of mistakes he's making, for example using the wrong word forms ("active" instead of "activate") and poor word choice, and choice of tenses but excellent spelling and erratic syntax, that he's not a native speaker rather than that he's just being lazy, so try not to be too harsh on him/her.

Politely and respectfully, :wavey:

Vac

[Taylrea Teodor]

Wenwu, please read the PM I've sent you before you post here again.

I'm pretty sure this guy's English is causing over half the problems, and guessing from the style of mistakes he's making, for example using the wrong word forms ("active" instead of "activate") and poor word choice, and choice of tenses but excellent spelling and erratic syntax, that he's not a native speaker rather than that he's just being lazy, so try not to be too harsh on him/her.

Politely and respectfully, :wavey:

Vac

True. I've edited out the 'poorly written' comment in my post above, because it isn't really, I suppose. Doesn't stop it being difficult to read though, but I suspect not much can be done about that. It's the vague nature of his posts that cause me more problems. I can deal with something being difficult to read, and I'm no stranger to reading non-native-written text, but when it contains no useful content it just makes my 'decoding' efforts fruitless. :shrug:

[SiLa]

Understood, and for what it's worth, thanks for your patience.
I do hope he reads my PM first and takes my advice to back out of this politely until he learns more of the technical vocabulary used here. Things like FormIDs and the various components involved with Oblivion's internal records can be complicated even for the best of us when we first start. :tongue:

Vac

[Charity Hughes]

Hopefully Vac was able to lend some assistance. I would say from the text structure the guy is Asian, possibly Japanese. I just finished dealing with a Japanese girl who did a translation of Oblivion XP. We had a really tough time understanding each other. I couldn't even understand what she was trying to say half the time. Anyway, I just kept my sentences short and didn't using conjunctions (I would say did not instead of didn't, for example). We eventually got there. Now I have absolutely no idea what the Japanese translation of Oblivion XP says or if it even bears any resemblance to the original text She could be going on about how crazy the mod author is for all I know!

Having said all that, I love AN's weathers! So it might be more an issue with the fact that it looks better with HDR now than without. Hopefully he can grab the debug ring and post some specifics if he wants you guys to look at anything in particular.

Edit: Oh I see Vac is from Taiwan - well he'd know better than I!

[koumba]

I remain curious based on what he brought up, and because I don't know how the weather system works in detail--is it possible that by itself, one of the weather mods applies some kind of global color/brightness/contrast/etc. change that the individual weather conditions the mod uses then inherit? Or is the sum of the visual effect provided by any particular weather applied by only that weather condition itself? For example, I remember hearing Natural Weather is more yellow. Would that be because there's some kind of global filter being applied, or is it just that each individual clear weather imparts the yellow coloring? I'm sure there are some added complexities to the weather system I am not considering, but when he brought all of this up (confusingly), the idea of some global effect present in the individual weather mods but not adapted for their use in All Natural is what occurred to me.

Also I just finished watching Star Wars episode 3 having never seen it, and some of the CG skies made me want to play Oblivion, haha. I guess it's a compliment that AN's weather atmospheres stack up against a $$$ movie. The funny thing is I really only watched it so I can fully appreciate the insanely long redlettermedia review I'm about to watch that will tear the movie apart in hilarious ways. Sorry George Lucas.

[Lalla Vu]

I remain curious based on what he brought up, and because I don't know how the weather system works in detail--is it possible that by itself, one of the weather mods applies some kind of global color/brightness/contrast/etc. change that the individual weather conditions the mod uses then inherit? Or is the sum of the visual effect provided by any particular weather applied by only that weather condition itself? For example, I remember hearing Natural Weather is more yellow. Would that be because there's some kind of global filter being applied, or is it just that each individual clear weather imparts the yellow coloring? I'm sure there are some added complexities to the weather system I am not considering, but when he brought all of this up (confusingly), the idea of some global effect present in the individual weather mods but not adapted for their use in All Natural is what occurred to me.

Also I just finished watching Star Wars episode 3 having never seen it, and some of the CG skies made me want to play Oblivion, haha. I guess it's a compliment that AN's weather atmospheres stack up against a $$$ movie. The funny thing is I really only watched it so I can fully appreciate the insanely long redlettermedia review I'm about to watch that will tear the movie apart in hilarious ways. Sorry George Lucas.

Weathers all individually supply global ambient light, sunlight, cloud textures and colouration of the various sky components. NW's weathers are more yellow because each of NW's clear weathers has a more yellow ambient or sunlight (can't remember which, or both) than vanilla weathers. When weathers transition, you get blending between the settings for each weather, which I assume is linear. It's actually pretty simple, which is both a plus and a minus, as it means it's not difficult to understand, but relies on a large amount of numbers and means you can't really do that much with it (though I admit I'm not very inventive). Fog is also done on a per-weather basis.

[Nuno Castro]

Weathers all individually supply global ambient light, sunlight, cloud textures and colouration of the various sky components. NW's weathers are more yellow because each of NW's clear weathers has a more yellow ambient or sunlight (can't remember which, or both) than vanilla weathers. When weathers transition, you get blending between the settings for each weather, which I assume is linear. It's actually pretty simple, which is both a plus and a minus, as it means it's not difficult to understand, but relies on a large amount of numbers and means you can't really do that much with it (though I admit I'm not very inventive). Fog is also done on a per-weather basis.

Okay, thanks for confirming how it all works. So that means there shouldn't be any difference between a particular weather from a weather mod on its own and that same weather incorporated into AN, aside from the transitions between weathers that had belonged to different mods producing new combinations, etc. Therefore I don't really understand what wenwu means, unless it's all just complaints with how the engine does things, visual "problems" that AN can do nothing about. Oh well, I tried. lolololol

[Jonathan Windmon]

Okay, thanks for confirming how it all works. So that means there shouldn't be any difference between a particular weather from a weather mod on its own and that same weather incorporated into AN, aside from the transitions between weathers that had belonged to different mods producing new combinations, etc. Therefore I don't really understand what wenwu means, unless it's all just complaints with how the engine does things, visual "problems" that AN can do nothing about. Oh well, I tried. lolololol

Well, the weathers aren't all 1:1 copies. Some looked rubbish, others didn't fit in their groups, others got slight tweaks to things like tinting (all of NW's clear weathers lost their yellow tint, though that might have happened before I came along...). A very small number got a complete overhaul with some very nice textures provided for me (IIRC they were 3 AWS weathers).

Although, even taking into account that taste varies, all the changes were made to make things look better, and were done on user request/with consultation...

[Donald Richards]

Look, I am this close to ignoring you from now on unless you start providing some actual details. All you've posted so far are long, poorly written, difficult to read complaints about the quality of weathers in All Natural, displaying little to no knowledge or research into how AN actually works. You're also complaining about stuff which is purely game engine mechanics, like the fog blending.

ATM your posts are just a bunch of near-meaningless incredibly vague waffle to me. You don't think AN is perfect. That's great, everybody has an opinion. I don't think AN is perfect either, not least because it's something I've had input in. However, if you really expect me to do anything about it, you need to give concrete, useable details. If you don't expect me to do anything about it, can you please stop giving me a headache?

EDIT: By details, I don't mean:

"I thought I saw a weather that I think was from AWS, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it had a bit of blue in the sky, but the clouds looked really flat and the shading didn't look natural. Also the sunlight wasn't shading the mountains right. It doesn't look like the vanilla clear, which is much more orange."

I mean:

"Found a weather I think could do with improving. 020064EF's sunlight doesn't match the tint of the colours for the rest of the weather, and the lower clouds look too dark a grey compared with the rest of the weather, and other weathers of its type."

There are roughly 120 weathers in AN. I'm not wasting my time searching through them looking for possible matches to your descriptions when you could save me the effort by downloading and activating one more plugin, then performing one extra keystroke.

Well, I said I can't play TES4 now. And from your post I understand all you need is just the weather ID.

I think the one who creats weather will make a type list and then prepare texture and adjust settings for each weather to make a proper effect, so he will know exactly about each weather's ID and texture and setting and in-game effect. For people haven't creat those weather, he never experienced those process about them, so it is really a hard work to know exactly about them.
Though there is no more than three sunny weather in NW of AN, searching them from 120 weather is surely a terrible work for the one who don't know which weather ID is for NW sunny day.

I said modding is not your job for money, and though assembler also has interest, he won't have the same emotion as creator. So special adjustment of weathers is turely a waste of time. As a result I won't ask you to adjust those weather.

But at last I found I have make a mistake, that sometimes seeking mod to custom a realistic game world is not a pratical effort, for TES4 is a RPG, and no matter how similar to real, it is only adjusting meshes and textures.

[Alex Blacke]

The one I think you're talking about, bright blue sky with no clouds, is part of NW. It was designed that way before we made use of it. Being in California I can assure you that such a plain bland weather type exists and we see it a lot here. Even up in the mountains. It is not a weather type the game selects often but when it does it looks just as good as all the others.

This is why we need specifics. Saying in general that one or two weathers out of 120 are off in some way is not enough. Just because we maintain the mod and write in new stuff for it does not mean that we know exactly which one is which by a description that could fit 35 different ones. Looking at them in the CS, they are just numbers. So we really would need the ID for it from the debug ring at the very least. A screenshot of the one you are having trouble with would help even more.

Otherwise all that happens is we go around in circles for several pages and eventually someone reaches the limit of their patience.

[Music Show]

Well, I said I can't play TES4 now. And from your post I understand all you need is just the weather ID.

I think the one who creats weather will make a type list and then prepare texture and adjust settings for each weather to make a proper effect, so he will know exactly about each weather's ID and texture and setting and in-game effect. For people haven't creat those weather, he never experienced those process about them, so it is really a hard work to know exactly about them.
Though there is no more than three sunny weather in NW of AN, searching them from 120 weather is surely a terrible work for the one who don't know which weather ID is for NW sunny day.

I said modding is not your job for money, and though assembler also has interest, he won't have the same emotion as creator. So special adjustment of weathers is turely a waste of time. As a result I won't ask you to adjust those weather.

But at last I found I have make a mistake, that sometimes seeking mod to custom a realistic game world is not a pratical effort, for TES4 is a RPG, and no matter how similar to real, it is only adjusting meshes and textures.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about what is hard, terrible, interesting, emotional or practical for me. I'll chalk it up to your meaning being lost in translation, but what you've written just rubs me the wrong way.

I may not have created any of this mod, but I have spent a lot of time work on it, and I'd say I know more about the weather part of it than anyone else. I'd also say that I'm more familiar with what there is to modding weather than anyone that's still actively modding (HTF is clearly my better at it, my ego isn't that big ).

I wouldn't have stuck around (over 2 1/2 years!) and continue to do so if I didn't care about AN, either. It represents a significant investment of my time and effort, and I'm happy that it is. I chose to work on it because I really liked the idea, and didn't want to see it die. Now I'd like to see it be as good as possible, and that means I need you to stop making my decisions for me and just tell me what exactly you think is wrong with the mod.

[Charles Weber]

Hi! Just wanted to drop by and say thanks for making the best weather mod out there :thumbsup:

[Heather beauchamp]

http://www.4shared.com/file/QS9hEHSp/AN-v1-2b_Update_Pack.html. I've hopefully fixed the Anvil windows weird lighting issue. Plus I redid the Farmhouses to make them better. If anyone tests this pack, let me know if Anvil works ok. Thanks.

Thanks alot for the quick update, but I did some more testing and somehow the updates are causing additional issues with reflected lights on some walls (only walls with windows?) without correcting the window reflections.

The specific test I did was using the "haunted house" in Anvil which uses the mesh... "anvilupperclassinterior01.nif" after completing the "Spirits have lease" quest. After updating, the windows still aren't correct, and some walls are also missing all reflected lighting. Deleting the updated mesh from the all natural folder under meshes restores it to the pre-update screens below with correct walls and messed up windows. Maybe it's possible my install is screwed up after all if I am the only one experiencing this.

Edit: By the way, I was reading the past couple of pages in this thread and I want to say that most of us DO appreciate the incredible amount of time and effort that goes into mods like this.

Screens before updating:

http://yfrog.com/5koblivion201103210244435j
http://yfrog.com/g4oblivion201103210244450j

Screens after updating:

http://yfrog.com/5moblivion201103210246544j
http://yfrog.com/4joblivion201103210246555j
http://yfrog.com/9goblivion201103210246469j
http://yfrog.com/nhoblivion201103210247239j
http://yfrog.com/1soblivion201103210247349j

[jasminε]

Thanks alot for the quick update, but I did some more testing and somehow the updates are causing additional issues with reflected lights on some walls (only walls with windows?) without correcting the window reflections.

Thank you again for finding this. I've fixed it. It was just a random export error when I corrected the mesh the first time. Crazy exporter does this stuff to me sometimes just to drive me mad. Anyway, I've actually got a very large 150mb update for AN just about done. I'll upload later today and include this fix. Thanks again for your testing, I really appreciate it.

http://www.4shared.com/file/IAxO1ds1/AN-v1-2c_Update_Pack.html. This fixes a lot of the glowing windows issues people would get at night when windows should be totally black. The other main change is I redid Leyawiin interiors so you can see the actual building exteriors instead of the old way I did it which was not as good...plus found a few places in Leyawiin where you could see into other rooms through windows.

Oh, and the other main change is all Leyawiin front doors now have transparency since for some reason they never had this before. Now all windows and doors should be deliciously see-through-able.

Behold the http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/AN-Leyawiin-NewFG.jpg.

[Sun of Sammy]

http://www.4shared.com/file/IAxO1ds1/AN-v1-2c_Update_Pack.html. This fixes a lot of the glowing windows issues people would get at night when windows should be totally black. The other main change is I redid Leyawiin interiors so you can see the actual building exteriors instead of the old way I did it which was not as good...plus found a few places in Leyawiin where you could see into other rooms through windows.

Oh, and the other main change is all Leyawiin front doors now have transparency since for some reason they never had this before. Now all windows and doors should be deliciously see-through-able.

Behold the http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj317/Brumbek/All%20Natural%20Oblivion%20Mod/AN-Leyawiin-NewFG.jpg.

Thank you very very much Brumbek! Installing this now :celebration:

[Kate Murrell]

Double thanks to Brumbek for always being on top of these things and getting fixes out so quickly. Since I haven't encountered recent problems myself I'm like two fixes behind at the moment looool

[stevie critchley]

Brumbek: So, the 1.2b update need not be installed, right? I'll just go directly to this 1.2c version.

Thanks for the updates!

[Bellismydesi]

Brumbek: So, the 1.2b update need not be installed, right? I'll just go directly to this 1.2c version.

Thanks for the updates!

Yep, just use 1.2c. We'll be releasing a full AN 1.3 very shortly, maybe next weekend.

[Dalley hussain]

I notice that the new 1.2c update has 2 additional esps - as I am running short on esp slots, I request you to please include them in the main All Natural esp in the next main version 1.3. Thanks!

[Stefanny Cardona]

After spending ages trying to figure out what nothing was happening when I was killing spriggans, I looked in TES4Edit at all my mods, and found that MMM for OOO uses OOO's creature script for them, which doesn't include the weather stuff. I got 4 out of 7 Ents to trigger a weather change though, and all the weather changes were correct, which is good.

If Arkngt is reading this, that's probably the same reason why you never got a message while killing spriggans.

[Marquis deVille]

Aha, that would explain it. Perhaps FCOM_Convergence.esp also carries over the OOO script. Thanks for checking it out!

EDIT: Yes, that's the case with FCOM_Convergence.esp as well, so not odd that the rain/thunder script doesn't kick in. But oddly enough, http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/18688/1246642.jpg in the Bashed Patch - and even if loading all mods in TES4Edit I can't figure out where it comes from. So it wouldn't help to edit FCOM_Convergence.esp. Weird or, rather, beyond me.

EDIT 2: Thinking about it, I guess that's the script from OOO you get when befriending animals at a certain quest stage. In short, I'll ask Corepc to check this out...