[Nick Jase Mason]

Clean save the game without All Natural and reactivate it.

This gets rid of all the script data and makes the mod restart from scratch.

[Jade]

In my opinion it would be more immersive if the enemies had the same troubles as me in the darkness : /

They do, right up until they detect you. If you can't see in the dark without a torch, neither can they. Unless you're the worst stealth type in history, they're not likely to hear you coming and you should be able to slip right by.

The sewers thing is entirely normal. Remove all of the fake light sources and what do you have? An enclosed dark, damp, underground area with no natural light. There are goblin and NPC camps down there though, so the entire sewer won't be pitch black. Those NPCs/goblins will actually need their fire light to see by. Those areas in vanilla that have visible sky above holes in the ceiling will only have light in them during daylight in weather that's not overcast.

All in all, dungeons and other underground interiors are behaving exactly as they're intended to. So there's nothing really to fix. Only stuff like that blinding mess in that IC shop still needs to get worked out, but do keep in mind it's also possible mods are throwing their own junk lighting in that we have no control over.

@Brumbek: Other than more weather boxes we have nothing on tap for a next release. I just don't know when that will be or how quickly more boxes will get placed. That stuff is beyond tedious to do.

[Jordyn Youngman]

@Brumbek: Other than more weather boxes we have nothing on tap for a next release. I just don't know when that will be or how quickly more boxes will get placed. That stuff is beyond tedious to do.

:whistling:
You're the one that asked for them. :rolleyes:

For what it's worth, they do look fab (even if I say so myself); I'm very glad you did request them and that I started using AN.

Vac

[Tai Scott]

I know, but damn. There's so many cells. And I have so many far more interesting things to work on

[Justin Hankins]

You know? We should have a tedious task exchange... I'll take your dozen weather boxes for my dozen NPC AI packages... A break is as good as a rest, isn't it?

[Katie Samuel]

That's not a bad idea of andalaybay's. Maybe you could make a list of cells not yet done

Spoiler

All of Leyawiiin except cells: "xxxx"
"xxxx"
"xxxx"

and people can make a dependent patch that adds the boxes to those cells, so people who are capable and willing can do a cell here or there, like andalaybay suggested. Maybe nothing happens. Maybe you only get a dozen cells done for you. maybe a whole lot of work gets done for you and you just have to merge it into the main file.

The only real problem is you still have to check each cell over (quality control) in TES4Edit (dirty edits) and the CS (is every window covered and aligned correctly), but that should be rather less work than doing it all from scratch yourself, I think.

It's worth considering, anyway.

Vac

Edit: Spelling...

[Chris Guerin]

I really wouldn't mind something like that. I do have a ton of rather tedious edits to do too, and if I can exchange them for something different, we all benefit.

[Beulah Bell]

Arthmoor, andalaybay.

I honestly doubt it'll go far (unless we count page 200 of the forums far), but http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194058-menial-task-exchange/. Feel free to post your requests there as well and maybe you can both get some help.

Vac

[Amy Cooper]

I might do some of the weatherbox placement - I can do one or all of the districts in the Imperial City. Also, I'm sure it won't be that difficult since most of the windows are only on the first floor!

Also, some more debug pics. This wasn't while it was raining, as this came from previous save while it was overcast. There's definitely a difference between the outside and inside for this weather pattern:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4126/2011052300001.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/297/2011052300002.jpg

[Erika Ellsworth]

I've been PMed by The Vyper, who says that his http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34868 mod might be responsible for any stuck Oblivion weather people are experiencing. If you've experienced the bug, could you post saying whether or not you use this mod?

Also, anyone who uses All Natural with Enhanced Seasons' seasonal day lengths will find that their interior climate sunset/rise times don't match the exterior times. It's taken me almost two months to reach leyawiin where the problem was reported, but now I've replicated it I should have a fix out soon.

Also, some more debug pics. This wasn't while it was raining, as this came from previous save while it was overcast. There's definitely a difference between the outside and inside for this weather pattern:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4126/2011052300001.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/297/2011052300002.jpg

Thanks for those.

[Natalie Harvey]

*raises hand* Yeah, I'm one of those who gets stuck Oblivion weather and is using the Gate Closer spell. In fact, the worst cases of stuck weather are when I use the spell to close a gate. However I will get stuck weather even if I'm just walking by.

[Lindsay Dunn]

They do, right up until they detect you. If you can't see in the dark without a torch, neither can they. Unless you're the worst stealth type in history, they're not likely to hear you coming and you should be able to slip right by.

The sewers thing is entirely normal. Remove all of the fake light sources and what do you have? An enclosed dark, damp, underground area with no natural light. There are goblin and NPC camps down there though, so the entire sewer won't be pitch black. Those NPCs/goblins will actually need their fire light to see by. Those areas in vanilla that have visible sky above holes in the ceiling will only have light in them during daylight in weather that's not overcast.

All in all, dungeons and other underground interiors are behaving exactly as they're intended to. So there's nothing really to fix. Only stuff like that blinding mess in that IC shop still needs to get worked out, but do keep in mind it's also possible mods are throwing their own junk lighting in that we have no control over.

Solved. http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4126/2011052300001.jpg is what the imperial prison sewers look like after a plugin reset, the way Thomas told me to do it. I did it because the weather got somewhat stuck in heavy rain. Also, Conscribe didn't log a single error in the last session. So, my guess is that the plugin breaks overtime, in a way that even in clear weather you can't pretty see much anything in the sewers, including those areas with the holes in the ceiling. Oh, I don't use the Gate Closer spell.

[Tamara Dost]

Count me in if you guys need any help with the weatherboxes. Doing Immersive Interiors is about the most tedious and repetitive thing you can possibly do. I'm used to it

[Je suis]

No, I haven't made any changes yet. Why do we need to have another release soon though?

Because releases are fun! Err, well, I starting updated the scripts since the new Wrye Bash 292 breaks old scripts. So we'll want to put a new version or very small script patch out once WB 292 comes out. Course maybe that won't be for a while...

Now that I have the new OBMM .ini edits working, it is MUCH easier to customize AN since you don't have to do tricky hand editing of the .ini. So that will be good to release to users soonish.

Count me in if you guys need any help with the weatherboxes. Doing Immersive Interiors is about the most tedious and repetitive thing you can possibly do. I'm used to it

I also excel at tedious tasks. Arthmoor, if you want to write up some basic instructions/guidelines, I could help as well.

[Tiffany Holmes]

PS: About the interior bug I'm having, the way I see it the interior weather should essentially be darker than the exterior weather in order to compensate Oblivion's rather lacking shadows. As it is right now it is rather bright with the addition of ambient and real light sources - Oh, and I'm not running the RL plugins.

[helliehexx]

PS: About the interior bug I'm having, the way I see it the interior weather should essentially be darker than the exterior weather in order to compensate Oblivion's rather lacking shadows. As it is right now it is rather bright with the addition of ambient and real light sources - Oh, and I'm not running the RL plugins.

You just described exactly what Real Lights does. :poke:

[Bonnie Clyde]

Honestly, I like some of the ambient light in places, especially Alyeid Ruins and some forts, so I'd like to keep them as is. Maybe if there was a "RL - Above-Surface Interiors Only" plugin I might use it...

[Albert Wesker]

And Real Lights does not touch the ambient lighting in dungeon cells. It only removes fake light sources.

If you don't like that, you are perfectly entitled to modify the Real Lights plugin to remove the changes it makes to the dungeons. But with the weather boxes still to do, the AN team is at their limit of tedious work to do.

Sorry, but I don't know of any alternatives, especially since All Natural is the only mod out there that allows for interior weather simulation in this game.

[des lynam]

PS: About the interior bug I'm having, the way I see it the interior weather should essentially be darker than the exterior weather in order to compensate Oblivion's rather lacking shadows. As it is right now it is rather bright with the addition of ambient and real light sources - Oh, and I'm not running the RL plugins.

It already is, if we allowed for the light level to be equal to the exterior brightness level, you'd go blind. Tweaking interior weather lighting levels is not easy to do, they're quite delicate and small changes produce huge swings in results.

Weather boxes:

Thanks for the offers of help. I'll get something written up in a bit. It's not terribly hard, there's just a mind numblingly large number of cells to do it in and it effectively needs to be done twice for light+heavy rain. CSE isn't far enough along yet to reduce the tedium to zero. So perhaps splitting the task up into some doing light rain boxes and others doing heavy rain boxes will get us there faster. As you can imagine, Chorrol was a serious pain because it needed snow boxes too.

[CSar L]

For each interior cell with windows that exists outside, a weather box needs to be placed by each window. For purposes of this, placing the heavy rain box will suffice.

These heavy rain boxes need to be set to initially disabled, with ANHeavyRainController in the enable parent tab. This object is found in the AllNaturalWeatherDummyCell.

The boxes need to line up close to the windows in any interior that has them. If you need examples, there are plenty in Chorrol and Bruma to look at, as well as the chapels and the Faregyl Inn.

Anvil, Bravil, Cheydinhal, Leyawiin, Skingrad, and the Imperial City need to be set.

The boxes come in two types. A normal length one and a triple length one. If you have more than one window on a wall, try and cover it with one triple length box instead of two normal ones. It will save on some internal processing that way.

Shivering Isles needs to be done too, but there's a relatively small amount of interior cells there so I'll do those myself unless the Cyrodiil stuff goes quickly.

Best done with CSE installed as it will at least let you mass set the initially disabled flags and you won't need to do anything weird to load the ESP up as a master.

Whatever work is done should be done in a file with All Natural.esm *AND* All Natural.esp as masters. I will merge the results in once they're ready.

And thanks to all who pitch in. It will be greatly appreciated. If I've not explained something clearly, please ask.

[Amy Masters]

Arthmoor, I've done the Praxographical Center. My TES4Edit trick works a treat, which enables me to only place one set of boxes via the CS. Do you want to http://www.4shared.com/file/nvje5pC1/Weather_boxes_in_AN_test.html?

For those who are curious, the trick is simple.

Spoiler

Place one set of boxes (I did the heavy rain boxes) according to Arthmoor's instructions.

When you decide you've done enough, save and quit, making sure the plugin name mentions which boxes you've done.

Make a copy (or two copies if you need snow boxes too) and name them for each kind of box.

Open all the new plugins in TES4Edit.

Use the "Change Referencing Records" function in TES4Edit to change the heavy boxes currently in the "light box" plugin to become light boxes. Do the same to change the heavy rain boxes in the "snow" plugin into snow boxes.

Then use the "Change Referencing Records" function again to change the parent references from ANHeavyRainController to ANLightRainController for the light rain boxes, and to ANSnowController for the snow boxes.

Save.

You now have two (or three) plugins with all the boxes necessary. Of course, if you're only doing one cell the time saving is slim. The thing is the TES4Edit work takes only a little longer for two hundred boxes than it does for two boxes. And you can do each cell twice (or three times) as fast in the CS as you only have to place one set of boxes. Put another way, done just in the CS, maybe you can do 7 cells in an hour, this way you can do 7 cells in half an hour (CS) and three minutes (TES4Edit), or 14 cells in an hour (CS) and four minutes(TES4Edit).

Feel free to do things the long way if you're not familiar with the TES4Edit funtions I'm talking about.

I'm *really* surprised Arthmoor didn't do this before...

Vac

Edit: Spelling and a period "." on the wrong side of a spoiler tag.

Edit2: It just occured to me that Arthmoor might be about to hate me :swear: as he did three times more work than he really needed to for Chorrol and Bruma already. :shrug:

[kevin ball]

Well I hadn't really thought about doing the needed work in a separate ESP before. Silly me. Yes, it would be incredibly fast and easy to do what you're suggesting and it will make the entire job that much easier for anyone wanting to help out because I can obviously do all the TES4Edit parts myself after the initial placements of whichever boxes is all done.

I used a somewhat less efficient method in getting Chorrol done, which in hindsight was not really all that great. Basically placing one set of boxes, then doing duplications in each cell until the other two sets were done, and then going into TES4Edit later and cell by cell bulk-changing things into different boxes. Yeah, what can I say Your method is leaps and bounds better.

[jaideep singh]

it will make the entire job that much easier for anyone wanting to help out because I can obviously do all the TES4Edit parts myself after the initial placements of whichever boxes is all done.

Good point, you actually don't need other people to do that TES4Edit work themselves, you just need them to all only place one kind of box.

Perhaps you should rewrite your instructions to only mention one rain box (i.e. the heavy rain box) and state that you will duplicate the light rain boxes and the snow boxes from the heavy rain boxes and therefore people should not place those themselves.

Sorry I didn't think of this method *before* you did Chorrol and Bruma. :angel: I wasn't paying much attention to AN at that time.

About the only "downsides" I can think of to this method is that when viewed in the CS, all the effect boxes will overlap perfectly, so you can't reliably select the one you want in the CS render window (but can still select the one you want in the object window).
The other "downside" is that it's easier to place snow boxes everywhere in Cyrodiil than to not place them everywhere. The esp duplication and re-referencing for snow boxes adds a small fraction of time to the TES4Edit process, selecting *only* the boxes in cells which might have snow will actually take much longer than that, I'd guess. But then, as long as the boxes are disabled (no snowy weather in Leyawiin?) the impact on performance is... non-existant?

Vac

[Alex [AK]]

Sorry, I kind of wound up backing out of this a bit. I'm keeping an eye on it though and may pitch in at some point. Basically a couple of other things came up that wound up snatching me away.

Arthmoor, could you list which ones still need doing? Perhaps just update post #95.

[quinnnn]

Post 95 edited to reflect the new process. That will make it far easier on everyone in the end since only one box type need be placed and I can duplicate the others using tes4edit.