I love the Bethesda/Obsidian defense force in this topic:

"Herp derp there's a lot of code it's tough to fix bugs."

Yeah, game design is a complicated process - that's why we pay money for videogames. If the game is broken - and Bethesda and Obsidian both knew it was, it shouldn't be released until it's fixed. NO ONE ELSE would get away with this in any other industry. What if MS Office or Apache shipped in this state? It would cause a major outrage.

Bethesda and Obsidian should both be driven out of business for this travesty. Chris Avellone in particular shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the industry anymore. He's a criminal guilty of fraud, he should be in prison.

I don't think it is unreasonable at all to expect a game to work at launch. If you are going to release DLC for it, you should have at least taken the time to test it first. I understand the company being under a time limit, also, and that publishers are only out for their own pockets( That's you, Bethesda). But releasing a game in this condition, as a retail, is disgusting. It's basically a big, G.E.C.K. Mod, is all, running on an engine that has been established for a long time. They should have had plenty of time to tweak and refine how the engine operates, since they didn't spend any time improving it graphically.

Is it a great game? In theory, yes. It has a good, well-written story and interesting characters with enough humor included to keep it entertaining. Is it better than Fallout 3? Heck no. FO3 worked. I never had a problem with it, not once. My load times increased from 5 seconds to maybe 10. In this, I'm up to two minutes almost. That especially svcks, when you are in a city like New Vegas and need to keep changing scenes. Load 2 minutes, walk 10 seconds to next door, load 2 minutes. This is not a major bug. But corrupted game saves and broken quests are. I hope they get it right next time, if they get a next time. But they are losing support fast like this and that will come back to bite 'em in the butt.

I like how I say that they've had 5 days, and people think I love having these bugs in the game. OH MY GOD I [censored] LOVE THESE GLITCHES. THEY ARE SO AWESOME. NEVER FIX THEM EVAR.

No, the game should not have been released in this condition. But saying that 5 workdays is enough to fix them is just [censored].

I completely agree that some of the features in FNV have not even been looked at nor tested. There are many people saying that they got the save bug glitch with or without the DLC installed. Now, on the developers' side however, how come a glitch which is not related to a certain module or a feature can be logged and displayed as a "DLC" error? Only a computer science graduate or a programmer would know that you need to log your exceptions with the best possible explanation, so you can debug easier...So if the save bug is NOT DLC related why are those people getting a DLC related error message? Logically thinking....

You have already mentioned it yourself - poor exception handling.

FWIW, I have an app at work (written by a fairly well known app vendor) that throws the error "User not found" no matter the actual issue. Client/DNS server trouble? "User not found". Bad password? "User not found" Hardware Failure? "User not found", etc. etc.

I seem to remember Morrowind throwing similar stuff. Deja vu.

I know exactly what you mean. This only support the thesis that these guys, with all the cash they are making, cannot do a proper and thorough testing and debugging sessions. People should have all the rights to be pissed, and to be expecting any kind of compensation. Honestly.

and what about the people who don't have an internet connection, is it acceptable to sell a game that is not playable if you don't have one?

what is reasonable is to test the game before it's released and not to expect the customer to do the testing for you

Ok you think its unreasonable for them to fix SO MANY BUGS in a short period of time, fine.

Do you think its also Unreasonable for them to give us an Update on what's being done? Because I sure as [censored] don't. A nice "hey We're working on it, we know its been rough, Sorry, we're in the process of finding out...." would really be very reasonable, hell it even makes perfect sense.

The frustration on alot of people including mine is the fact that we have these bugs that is deterring our Fallout New Vegas experience or for alot of us it completely negated it by the Game Save Bug. And we sign up or we come to these forums looking for an answer...its been 5 days..since the patch 8 Days since release...Its perfectly reasonable for us to be pissed off and since they cant give us a patch, or even a word of one... we're gonna demand one right now.

I can totally understand that Obsidian presumably had to deal with tight deadlines and that testing video games is difficult, especially due to the lack of automated tests in that area. Still, some of the bugs are so obvious that players discovered them within the first hour of gameplay. So, there is seriously something wrong with their QA.
What really blows my mind is that their crisis management is as poor as their software development. There is no apology to their loyal fanbase, not even a word about some little redemption (How about some free DLC? Well, it would probably cause even more bugs...) and absolutely no information about what's going on/when to expect the next patch (ever heard of William Timothy Coombs?). It's really bad enough that Obsidian released FNV buggy as hell, but they keep on screwing up.

Not that i indulge in either but piracy and the used games market seem to be the best way to avoid being burnt financially time and time again by Bethesda releases, sad but increasingly true. Once again i have spent money on a Bethesda title that i may well have picked up cheaper later on than put up with the horrendous amount of bugs at launch.

Fallout 3 GOTY PS3 ￡29.99
Rogue Warrior ￡29.99
Fallout New Vegas ￡37.99

A working Bethesda Game: Priceless

"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's Miracle Card."

Well, for me it's when the game freezes every 30 seconds, for starters... in Pip Boy, in VATS, or just walking. That's pretty game-breaking for me. I have always loves Bethesda's games, but this might be my last if some major fixes aren't here soon.

It's pretty appalling that the game was released in this condition. It might be "unreasonable" to expect all these bugs to get swatted in under a week, but this game was in development for months. I'm not qualified to guess how much under-the-hood tinkering was done to the game engine compared to the time spent on story, new textures and weapons, and all that stuff. But (when it's working) it sure behaves a lot like the FO3/Oblivion engine, which is certainly old enough to have achieved a measure of stability and playability. This game simply needed more time spent in testing and debugging.

I'm too casual a gamer to know whether this signals an alarming trend away from pre-launch testing, but what I do know is that Bungie Studios (for one) is a company that wouldn't dream of releasing a game in this condition, not even for a public beta. I bought all of their last four Halo games on day of release; not one of them had any bugs remotely as severe as FO:NV's.

Part of what is so infuriating about this is that FO3 was a hugely successful, hugely popular GOTY, which, while not bug-free by any means, was extremely playable from launch. FO3 was such a huge hit, that everyone knew its followup would make a mint in pre-orders alone. They didn't have to completely rebuild the game, even to the degree that Bungie did with Halo:Reach. All they had to do was take the existing FO3 and tell a new story in a new location with it. It really could have been a scaled-up version of what they did with Point Lookout. Hell, the factions and character wheel don't add much complication to it. It wasn't re-inventing the wheel.

But no. Knowing that they had a surefire instant moneymaker on their hands, Bethesda and Obsidian dropped the ball and rushed it through. ("Rushed"? Hasn't it been two years?) So those poor fans without access to Xbox Live (some of the world is still stuck with dial-up, you know) are stuck with a largely unplayable coaster, that cost them $60 or more, with no real hope of recourse. And the rest of us, who plunked down just as much money, are forced to wait around, thumbs up our fannies, until the developers finally finish the game that should have been free of these game-breaking bugs by the time of their first release candidate a couple months ago. We pay our money to buy games that work. We do not expect to subsidize the testing and debugging process by paying for unfinished games.

Never mind paying off the customers. The very least Bethesda and Obsidian can do is offer to create fully-patched game discs (when the game is eventually fully-patched) and offer them in exchange, on a one-for-one basis, for anyone who sends in their launch copy. Going back to Bungie and Microsoft, that's what they did when the Halo 3 Collector's Edition box was discovered to have scratched the game discs during shipment. Including a small cash rebate would be a classy move, but again, a classy company wouldn't have allowed this to happen in the first place.

If we break it, we own it. But if they break it, then they gotta take responsibility for it, and not just through occasional downloadable patches.

That's a good way to screw over the store you bought it from. That has absolutely no effect on obsidian at all. Once the store purchases the game, the company has their money, the store now has a game that they need to sell to get their money back and then some on.

How ever, I do not blame you for wanting to do that. Too bad I paid for this game in cash >_<

You cant really blame QA for this, as someone who is a QA Tester at a game company there is no way that they missed these bugs. Its more likely that they found them but the production team didnt want to fix them before launch because they knew they would have to miss their release date, maybe even miss the holidays completely with how long it takes for the submission process.

Alot of blame should also go to Sony and Microsoft because under their rules for submissions this game should never have past, seems like neither company wanted to be the one to fail such a huge game.

Do you know what would be awsome? If we weren't left to our own devices. I mean, how hard is it to take two seconds and post a little tinny tiney update on how things are going, even if its a month away it would at least bring our spirits up a little to know that we're not being left in the dark, that bethesda actually cared about our remorse on this issue.

Brink is Bethesda's next big project, you know who's ganna buy it? Bethesda fans, (us). But i have a feeling that we no longer have faith in Bethesda as a publisher and develper, game looks cool, but im not ganna buy it.

And for all those on these threads just to get on and flame distressed players who have lost their data and cant play the game, please leave them alone. Its not their faults they didnt know to save a million times, install the game, turn off autosave, or clear cache. We're all distressed and frustrated and rather sad that its difficult to play a game we love.

Why do you speak so much truth? Best post I've read since joining a few days ago.

Agreed on all points, a little communication would go a long way.

Brink was on my radar, but for the time being I won't touch anything else from Bethesda. I'm not paying to QA test another game for them.

Good luck to the people that didn't get glitched, I'm glad they're having fun with New Vegas. I was too before it started eating my save files and wasting my time. I saved all the time, cleared my cache and the game still doesn't [censored] work. I know people have suggested other workarounds (they've done more for the people playing this buggy mess than Bethesda/Obsidian). But why should I play on knowing that the game might decide to waste my time again at any point through no fault of my own? That my followers or items might disappear? That a quest might arbitrarily decide I can't finish it? Or that I might be locked out of a major quest hub?

The game doesn't work as sold and was in no state to be released on the platform I'm playing on, I'll be returning it as faulty software in the morning.

As noted http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1125221-please-read-from-the-teams-at-obsidian-and-bethesda/ (sorry if I sound like a broken record), we're continuing to look into issues that you guys are reported. We will be doing more updates for the game -- keep in mind that these updates, need to be tested, tested more, certified, uploaded, tested, etc. Sometimes these things take time.

I can assure you our teams are hard at work trying to resolve issues being reported. As soon as we have more details on updates for the games, we'll let you know.

Well, there's the news almost everyone and myself has been wanting.

Still, if Microsoft's certification process is anything to go by, we could be looking at weeks for the release. I hope this isn't the case. REALLY hope it isn't.

Reading comprehension FTW. I never said it was reasonable to release such a buggy game. What I did say is that it's unreasonable to expect it to be fixed so quickly.



That's funny, because a lot of people are frustrated because the only thing they're being told is "We're working on it".

I can't remember a single instance where a software company kept the public up to the minute on what they were doing to fix issues. It's just not something they do. I mean, what if they came on these forums and said "Good news! We found the issue causing game saves and the patch should be out within a week". Then 24 hours later they find that they didn't exactly fix that problem. Now they have to come to the forums and say "Bad news! We thought it was fixed, but it's not. We're still working on it though!"

So the best you're going to get is




Which is how it should be. As I said before they can't tell you something is for a fact fixed until the patch is on your console.

I can't remember a single instance where a software company kept the public up to the minute on what they were doing to fix issues. It's just not something they do. I mean, what if they came on these forums and said "Good news! We found the issue causing game saves and the patch should be out within a week". Then 24 hours later they find that they didn't exactly fix that problem. Now they have to come to the forums and say "Bad news! We thought it was fixed, but it's not. We're still working on it though!"

So the best you're going to get is




Which is how it should be. As I said before they can't tell you something is for a fact fixed until the patch is on your console.
[/quote]

Yes, your point is valid. But can you please tell me the date today, and the date of the stickied thread at the top of this forum with 'More info coming soon?' This news was posted today, not so long ago actually. Minute-by-minute updates I can understand are not needed, but it has almost been a week. This is the most we have heard from anyone since then.

EDIT - Deleted irrevelavent info, and ended up deleted quote brackets. Oh well.

I have been a member on this site since 6 years i think. (maybe more can't remember) TBH i have played all bhetesda games and all of them have been bugged to a point that the comunity of modders have to step in in fixing the bugs.

Still i have enjoyed all of bhetesda games (some on console"morrowind" and some on pc "oblivion-fallout")

i have been playing games since i was 7 and since i started on TES ARENA i learned the hard way to save in many different slots.

I have learned to deal with bugged bhetesda games that even if theyr bugged i still enjoyed to a point to don't care (daggerfall)

BUT with this game TBH i feel cheated of my money, cheated as a consummer , but most of all disapointed in bhetesda to a point where i will not buy any of their games again.

NOW i'm not a TROLL, like i said before i have been in this forums a while, posting , lurking, being helped by some people, i even helped some people, Such a great comunity.

So heres a question to bhetesda, and i now they will not read this but i have to ask.

What happened to you as a company, YES yo used to released bugged games, but WE COULD still enjoyed them and most importantly FINISHED THEM.

I understand the magnitude of your games and understand that because of all those quests, all those combinations, some if not many will have bugs , but when you release a game where THE PLAYER CAN'T FINISH THE MAIN QUEST it proves that you didn't TEST the game i mean, at least YOU as a company should make sure of that .

WE as PAYING customers that have been loyal not to your games but YOUR BRAND (bhetesda) deserve that.

IMHO a public apology in your MAIN PAGE is the least YOU could do.

(english is my 2nd languaje and my spell checking is not working)

I am just bummed out, because while I was actually playing the game it was awesome. Everything I loved from the first one was there and totally immersed me in the experience. After spending some thirty hours on it just to have my save file be bricked is just disheartening. I really want to play the game again but can't bring myself to start it again on mere principal. I appreciate that they are "updating us" but still am I going to really care when then finally release a patch for the game some weeks down the line......

Still in the dark:

in this quest im am at the point where i need to get these hepa filters... ive been in vault 22 before and when i came back to do this quest i picked up a keycard for the caves and when i went to use it it didnt work... looked in my inventory... not there... reloaded 2 different save and re-picked it up... not there

come on guys...

Dont bother making a new fallout.... i will not buy... maybe a year or tweo after the release... maybe

This company has wasted a great game by realeasing early...

agreed, but like some people said, this is one huge ass game world. you can't expect them to find all the bugs

if they did they would have to have had us wait longer to play it, and we gamers can be very impatient sometimes

i went through this game killer bug too, and i'm petrified to play a new game

i'm sure they are working on a patch for this damn bug, so i'm giving them till the end of november. if the bug isn't fixed by then.... fffffffFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUU :gun: