I like it, makes more sense.

On that topic: How do you think they could fix that if it becomes a major issue?

True if this was another game but this is Brink. Will people play operatives with the whole point of trying to sneak behind enemy lines to try and gets lots of kills I am sure it will happen. Will Rambo medics be around I am sure they will be, I could go on. :wink_smile:



I know right :spotted owl:



Well hard to say without having tried it.

In order to disguise oneself you need to find lone downed enemy. Then you can disguise yourself and he will know. If its a good team with mics the jig it more or less up there. You can't buff disguised operatives so spending any amount of time near supportive team players will give you away. Also with servers with no FF operative checking becomes even easier. The point is that disguises are more of a quick trick to get you behind enemy lines where they aren't watching.

Or were you referring to my addition to disguises?

No, you basically covered it. And yeah it is hard to say without playing it, but I meant more that if disguises became worthless due to the risks/obstacles, how would you fix it?

Well I won't think I know better than SD, and maybe there are somethings I don't know yet. However since you asked, that is a hard question. I will take inspiration from TF2's Spy which has a very similar style to the operative. I would say that enemies should be allowed to buff you. Call be crazy but the most hilarious thing to do on TF2 is have a medic ubercharge an disguised spy. Why would this help alleviate the problem? Well the point of a disguise is to blend in with the enemy. Right now there are far too many ways to give yourself away by being near your enemies but by staying away its obvious you don't belong, especially if your disguised as a medic.

That would make a lot of sense considering you said earlier that your own team can not buff you... good idea.

being able to steal buffs is a good idea to help the operative blend in and to help your team, you can trick the enemy medics use their syringes on you so they will run out of pips and wont be able to heal their team (untill the pips regenerate).

Wraith sees it my way, they're gonna be out behind the enemy lines, where not many of Ally Medics or Soldiers are.

They could make this an Ability, like

'Sneaky Scavenger'

"Pick Ammo from Dead Soldiers every-time you disguise"

-- Im not good at descriptions -- This will apply to other classes i just can't think of a good description --

Off-note: Does it say anywhere when you disguise you look normal to your teammates? Or does it just leave your team guessing?

Edit: Look at Original Post again.

Its starting to make more sense now that it wouldn't be a bad idea.
Now as far as how much of a boost you get is another topic within itself. I personally think the boosts shouldn't be high.
If you get ammo, you get 1 mag.
If you get health, you get 10-20% (Haven't worked out health due to lack of personal gameplay)
And so on with the other two.

Makes sense to me.

As long as it's not too overpowered, I'm fine with it. ^_^

We will see how the game works to see how balanced the classes are in-game.

Elaborate, please. Because I totally don't see your points.

We don't even know how/if the Operative is balanced in any way or if it's simply a class without as many useful abilities as the other classes.




To perfect your disguise, you should just pick up the enemys weapon.

Now if you can't "exploit" the primary-secondary-thing like on Call of Duty, allowing you to carry two primaries, it should allow you to pick up all ammo with the gun. But if you can carry two primaries (for your bodytype, that is), it wouldn't have to.


The teamplay part on the Operatives behalf is, to weaken the enemy team from behind the combat-line. Hacking their turrets, interrogating their members

Well what I am saying is that we know all of the classes are supposed to be as balanced as possible. True we don't know if they will.
But if operative get the advantage of being healed while take a medic's disguise it seems unfair to all other classes.

Someone mentioned picking up ammo off of a dead soldier when you disguise yourself as him/her. I like that idea but continuously getting health is a bit unbalanced. I could see maybe picking up an epi-pen when taking the disguise to heal your self, but not constantly.

A medic can buff himself. An Operative can't.

A soldier can rearm himself. An Operative can't.

An engineer can buff himself. An Operative can't.


The Operative is basicly the only class which can't actively improve his own attributes. All other classes allow for lonewolfing just as much.

You don't take the medics ability to heal, only heal once which could be 10%... 20% or which ever.
Wraith has suggested a good idea, but i don't like the idea of replacing the disguise ability with which class you disguise as.

And the idea will be an Ability later in the game. Not at lvl 1.

Yeah, an active ability would make sense, since player would be forced to drop another potenially useful skill for body looting.

One mag for looting a Soldier
One health pip for looting a Medic
A temporary Gun Buff for looting an Engineer

But what about Operatives?

They're not a buffer class but more like a support class that hinders the enemy team.
-Hack turrents so they don't kill your teamates
-firewall control points to make them take longer
-spot mines to make sure teamates don't step on them
-take sticky bombs off your teamates

They keep the team alive by countering enemy abilities.

Maybe their will be multiple levels of disguise but I doubt it.



Nothing for operatives.

I would like to take a revive needle from medics though than a health boost.



Seriously and yet people seem to think they will do nothing useful for the team.

As my exact words:

This could be because when people think of someone sneaking around, they think of them being alone, which implies, even with modern comms tech, that they aren't working with others.

It's also because being a high risk, high reward role, you spend more time dying/hiding and less helping.

However, just because you spend less time helping, doesn't mean you're less helpful, because wheny you are helping, you're helping loads.

As for the idea, I think it could work as a perk, it doesn't sound any more powerful than combat intuition, (where the positions of anyone aiming at you go in amber on your HUD).

Like stated above, they think people will just flank the enemy team and go for kills.


Touche.

This has probably already been said, but the key to the Operative is survival by cunning alone. If they got extra bonuses from assuming disguises, I'm afraid that a lot of people will start using it, and the game will break down. I could see the attraction of having extra bonuses if you were an Operative yourself, but for people like me who don't plan on being an Operative very much of the time, it could get frustrating.

That's because people are fools, hung up on the idea of teamwork requiring communication or being near each other, neither of which are explicitly true. A lot of it really boils down to the predjudice against "snipers" in most games leaking into Brink. People think that being away from the team means not playing as part of the team, in part because people are stupid (as you can see, I've suffered the negatives of the belief and am thus bitter at said people).

It's the same thought process that occurs when people think that players that are out for kills are useless in a game like this. Somehow they forget that part of being a team is being a collection of different players with different skills and purpose working toward the same goal. It doesn't mean doing the same thing, or doing things the same way.

Medics need to be near the team to be effective. Soldiers need to be near the enemy to be effective. Engineers need to have a goal (usually defensive) to be effective. Operatives need to have a goal (usually offensive) to be effective.

The team work begins to sort itself out because the soldiers move toward the main enemy and the medics follow. The engineers move to secure objectives, or the area in which their soldiers are fighting, and the operatives either drop into a defensive position or bolt to the other side as quickly as possible in order to get past the initial enemy rush. Where the natural progression fails is that sometimes you have 6 operatives and 2 soldiers so the battle gets brushed back too quickly, or you get 6 soldiers and two medics, so you get slowed down my lack of information, or being flanked because you have no defense playing.

"The teamplay part on the Operatives behalf is, to weaken the enemy team from behind the combat-line.
Hacking their turrets, interrogating their members"

maybe I phrased it wrong.... I did not mean that all operatives are not team players, I meant that it reduces the operatives need for his teammates. For example: a light operative with a Barret has very limited ammo. This is put in the game as an effort to balance sniping. Giving the Operative extra ammo like that means that HIS dependency on the team is reduced. I'm not saying his role is not important or that his actions don't benefit the team. My point is that this seems like it would make the operatives less dependent on his team for support such as health, ammo, buffs, etc. I understand that there will likely be many people who will play the operative like he is meant to be played, but doing this would give non-team-players (which I'm sure there will be many of) extra incentive to go only for kills because they won't need their teammates as much. I can see this maybe working as perk, but not as a universal ability for all operatives, and would have to be a small bonus to health or ammo.

i think IF you had a disguise bonus you should have it for the Op's only considering that's their job n all , maybe a health bonus or a melee bonus for one hit melee's? assassination style yah? :ninja:

I see where you're coming from.

However, those people will simply play Soldiers, so they have infinite ammo. Or medics, so they can heal and revive themselves every now and then.