Weird NPC behaviour : IV

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:57 pm

Suddenly, NPCs behave oddly. My companion Vilja doesn't involve herself in combat, although she's set to - and always does otherwise - fight if attacked or something like that. Now she just stands passive - sometimes drawing her weapons, but then putting them back again. This being in Shivering Isles, Dark Seducer guards don't involve themselves either, just walking past the fights, but sometimes drawing/sheathing weapons. And the same with enemy NPCs who attack, but then suddenly stop and are passive - and switches between those modes.

No idea what might be causing it. I noticed oddness as soon as Vilja and my char teleported to Shivering Isles, as she said a line as when she's in wait and didn't follow my char at first either. And the above has been in Shivering Isles as well.

The only mods I've added recently are mods that hardly should affect this AFAIK:

1. Fearsome Magicka - Just added, as is Screen Effects 1.0, Pluggy v132, ALGOHOL v0.11.

2. Sensual Walks for Female NPCs - Recently added, but have played w/o issues after adding it.

3. 1em_Vilja OOO FCOM Fix.esp - But I've used it before w/o issues.

4. A couple of race mods.

In short, can't really see anything that might have caused it? Any ideas?

» Mon May 02, 2011 9:54 pm

1.Full load order would be better, I think.
2.I had similar with Skycaptain's "NPC Friendly Fire" and "Fearsome M".

» Tue May 03, 2011 3:15 am

2.I had similar with Skycaptain's "NPC Friendly Fire" and "Fearsome M".

I'm using both so that might be it then.

It gets weirder still. My char returned to Cyrodiil to check if the issue might be SI specific and also waited 4 days for a respawn - but even before having a chance to check out NPC behaviour two weird things happened:

1. The sky suddenly turned violet as if from a missing texture. Have never seen it before. Also, took a screenshot but it's completely black.
2. Got a missing mesh from an OOO item in an interior - but checking the resources, the mesh is there and everything seems as it should.

Really odd. Almost like the game has broken down - can it be a corrupted save?

Otherwise, I think I'll revert to a pre-Fearsome Magicka save and check.

EDIT: Also weird: the save file size suddenly goes from 9,030 kb to 8,266 kb in the two saves before and after waiting for a respawn. Seems oddly large.

EDIT 2: Here's my current load order:

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.2.1]02  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]03  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.35Alpha2]04  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b7]05  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB6]06  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]07  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]08  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]09  CustomSpellIcons.esm0A  ScreenEffects.esm**  Cobl Races TNR.esp  [Version 1.53]**  Cobl Races TNR SI.esp  [Version 1.53]0B  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.8]0C  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0D  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]**  Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp0E  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.2]0F  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.2.1]10  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.7]11  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.7]12  PTAutumnTrees.esp13  Enhanced Water v2.0 HDMI.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp14  All Natural - Real Lights.esp15  WindowLightingSystem.esp**  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp++  Cobl Bookjackets.esp16  FlyingCameraMod.esp  [Version 1.3]17  VanityCameraSmoother.esp18  ImprovedSigns.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]19  PTFallingStars.esp1A  RAEVWD Cities.esp  [Version 1.9]1B  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]1C  DS Time Manager.esp  [Version 1.1]1D  FormID Finder4.esp1E  P1DmenuEscape.esp1F  skycaptains NPCFF.esp20  Streamline 3.1.esp21  Enhanced Hotkeys.esp  [Version 2.1.1]22  DLCOrrery.esp23  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  DLCOrrery Vwalk.esp24  DLCVileLair.esp25  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]26  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp27  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]**  DLCMehrunesRazor Vwalk UOP.esp28  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  Book Jackets DLC.esp**  GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp++  MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp29  1SB_RavenousEleganceOutfit.esp2A  Adonnays Classical Weaponry.esp2B  Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp2C  Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs.esp2D  Binoculars.esp2E  Captain_Molly_HGEC.esp2F  DG Jewelry for All.esp30  DM-Lingerie.esp31  Forestlight Armor.esp32  KDClothCirclets.esp33  KDDwemerSpectacles.esp34  kikaiAS-SheogorathRT-sep.esp35  Nicos Gift NPC.esp36  Nicos Gift.esp37  PTArtifacts.esp38  Rogue Sun's Blood Lust Dress.esp39  Sinblood's Widow Dress.esp3A  Sinbloods_Nightweave_HGEC.esp**  VA_UniqueKatana1Replace.esp3B  Blackmarsh_Witch_HGEC_Clothing.esp3C  HGEC_SBBewitching.esp3D  Priestess_of_Dibella_HGEC.esp3E  Armamentium female.esp3F  Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp  [Version 1.03]**  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp40  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]41  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]42  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]43  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]44  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.35Alpha2]**  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul Vwalk.esp**  OMOBS.esp  [Version 1.1]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 1.1]45  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]++  Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs - Armamentarium piggyback.esp**  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]46  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb6]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]47  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]48  FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_SpawnRatesStronger.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb4]49  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_NoWyverns.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4A  Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Reavers.esp  [Version 3.7b7]4B  Mart's Monster Mod - No Carrion Rats.esp  [Version 3.7b4]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Bone Loot.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Slimes.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Fiends.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Lanterns.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Beholdens.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - No Uberhulks.esp  [Version 3.7b7]4C  Mart's Monster Mod - Zombies for Body Meshes.esp  [Version 3.7b7]4D  Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot OOO.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b7]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp4E  Plate Armor Plus - OOO_FCOM_version.esp4F  Ivellon.esp  [Version 1.8]**  ArtifactsFemaleArmor.esp++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.1]50  BenirusManorRebuilt.esp51  Gift of Kynareth.esp52  TheForgottenShields.esp53  DLCFrostcrag.esp54  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]55  FrostcragAlchemySorter.esp**  DLCFrostcrag Vwalk.esp56  Knights.esp**  Knights - Book Jackets.esp57  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1]**  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp**  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp58  Mighty Umbra.esp++  FCOM_MightyUmbra.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb6]59  Gah Falquan Umarile.esp5A  Bag of Holding.esp  [Version 1.5.0]5B  EVE_ShiveringIslesEasterEggs.esp5C  Respawning Varla & Welkynd Stones.esp5D  Enhanced Vegetation [110%].esp5E  StarX Vampire Deaths.esp5F  Teleport Everywhere.esp60  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]61  ATakesAll.esp62  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [Version 2.0.1]++  Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp++  Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp  [Version 2.1.0]++  Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp  [Version 2.1.0]63  RealisticFatigue.esp64  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90b]65  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.90]66  MidasSpells.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Midas Creature Ingredients.esp++  Midas Assimulator Addon - Temp Fix.esp67  Midas Assimulator Addon - Oscuro.esp68  FearsomeMagicka.esp69  SigilStoneSelector.esp6A  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy_No_Bounty_v2.esp6B  EnchantmentRemoval.esp6C  EnchantmentRestore.esp6D  Creature Damage Fix.esp  [Version 2.4]6E  Phitt's Phighting Phixes.esp6F  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]70  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]71  RealisticLeveling.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Placement for Frostcrag.esp  [Version 0.78]72  ZBRE.esp73  Lucha's Blood Witch.esp74  Moonshadow Elves - NoSc.esp75  X.Dea.Obscura.esp76  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 3.1]77  1em_Vilja OOO FCOM Fix.esp78  Cobl Tweaks - FCOM.esp  [Version 1.72]79  Cobl Races.esp  [Version 1.52]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp7A  ZUAmberMadnessOverhaul.esp++  ZUSIO-MMM SI-patch.esp7B  MRP - Loading area.esp++  [GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]7C  Shining Creatures.esp++  Shining Creatures_DLCFrostcrag.esp7D  Companion Compatibility.esp7E  trfj_merged.esp++  xs_WarCry.esp++  xs_MMM.esp7F  xs_OOO.esp++  xs_armamentarium.esp80  xs_Rogue Hair.esp++  xs_si_playable.esp81  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Creatures Expansion.esp  [Version 3.7b6a]++  MMM Balrog No Fleeing.esp++  MMM More Spriggan and Ent Rain.esp++  OOOLoDFlameFix.esp++  OOO Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp  [Version 1.03]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.2]82  Bashed Patch, 0.esp

» Tue May 03, 2011 9:13 am

Are you using the SI portal to travel between SI and Tamriel or are you teleporting from SI directly to Frostcrag ?

Make sure you are using the correct alpha extra wounding has I included the older version that did not have obse stuff?

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:41 am

Are you using the SI portal to travel between SI and Tamriel or are you teleporting from SI directly to Frostcrag ?

I'm using Midas Astral Mark/Recall, which is "SI safe" and always has worked liked clockwork - so that's probably not it unless one of the added mods interfere with it. Using the latest Extra Wounding I think - shouldn't be it as I've run my current version for a while w/o issues.

EDIT: I'll revert to a pre-FM save and go from there.

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:15 am

latest Extra Wounding I think - shouldn't be it as I've run my current version for a while w/o issues.

EDIT: I'll revert to a pre-FM save and go from there.

Had to ask how you where teleporting . Midas should be safe..

Last Extra Wounding Update Eloise posted was on MMM alpha page 48 post 2..

Perhaps FM is overloading your system..

» Tue May 03, 2011 4:46 am

Another thing to check: Did you exceed 400 BSA, esp and esm files in your Data folder? That is known to cause anomalies.

Use Wrye Bash's ghosting feature to avoid this problem...

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:30 pm

Uninstalling Fearsome Magicka and the associated plugins, reverting to a pre-FM save and redoing the same things as in the first post, everything seems back to normal so far. Vilja is herself again and enemies seem to act normal, including guards who intervenes.

2.I had similar with Skycaptain's "NPC Friendly Fire" and "Fearsome M".

So perhaps some odd incompatibility between them then? Also, I used Fearsome Magicka briefly earlier on in the same game and had not any issues like this, but that was before NPC Friendly Fire, which also points to some bad interaction rather. Beyond me to check as both are script based.

Perhaps FM is overloading your system..

If so it wasn't the fire works that overloaded it as I had issues w/o any FM spells being used at all.

Another thing to check: Did you exceed 400 BSA, esp and esm files in your Data folder? That is known to cause anomalies.

Use Wrye Bash's ghosting feature to avoid this problem...

Thanks, but I'm far from it. Wrye Bash says 205.

» Mon May 02, 2011 6:39 pm

I read in another thread that resetting abomb may fix things also. I believe it was Arthmoor who said after resetting it a bunch of stuff started to work (like NPCs following their routine), even though the abomb was low. Apparently it will not hurt anything to do that.

Worth a try.

» Mon May 02, 2011 7:29 pm

I read in another thread that resetting abomb may fix things also. I believe it was Arthmoor who said after resetting it a bunch of stuff started to work (like NPCs following their routine), even though the abomb was low. Apparently it will not hurt anything to do that.

Worth a try.

Shouldn't be that as I've also heard that so I'm using it regularly. Also, seems to have been Fearsome Magicka combined with NPC Friendly Fire for some odd reason. I'm currently removing NPC Friendly Fire and reinstalling Fearsome Magicka to see how it goes.

» Mon May 02, 2011 11:31 pm

I seem to get a sense that crazy things are happening recently which did not happen before with the same mods installed. Like for me I can't import actor spells from FCOM_Convergence anymore but other can. The only thing that has changed is Wrye Bash. Now since these seem specific to only a few people you figure that Wrye Bash is not the issue. But when you eliminate evrything else, what do you have left. You could always try not importing scripts and see if that makes any difference. It seems that the more tags we use the more there rare things happen.

Just thinking out loud. Might be worth eliminating this rumor by trying. Anyway, good luck.

» Tue May 03, 2011 12:01 am

I seem to get a sense that crazy things are happening recently which did not happen before with the same mods installed. Like for me I can't import actor spells from FCOM_Convergence anymore but other can. The only thing that has changed is Wrye Bash. Now since these seem specific to only a few people you figure that Wrye Bash is not the issue. But when you eliminate evrything else, what do you have left. You could always try not importing scripts and see if that makes any difference. It seems that the more tags we use the more there rare things happen.

Just thinking out loud. Might be worth eliminating this rumor by trying. Anyway, good luck.

So far so good. Using Fearsome Magicka w/o NPC Friendly Fire - and no oddities so far, but I have only played a short while.

Anyway, did you see http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1172373-bashed-patch-causes-oblivion-to-freeze-on-startup/? Same issue with FCOM_Convergence.esp and import actor spells - thought it might be a good idea to compare load orders to see if you have something beside FCOM in common.