I was so happy to see gamesas resurrected I had to post something. Descent was my favorite game for a long time. Back in the days of the Voodoo graphics cards you could always count on the Descent development team to push the limits of state of the art graphics and interaction.

As far as I know, except for Forsaken, Descent is the only game with full 360-degree freedom of movement. I’m curious what the developers have to say about why Descent was not the smash hit it should have been. For what it’s worth here’s my opinion and wishes for Descent 4.

I assume the biggest problem at the time was that to get state of the art graphics and movement at acceptable frame rates required a state of the art computer. Of course today even a moderate computer would easily do the job. There is no longer a need to push the state of the art to make a great game.

High-resolution graphics and more varied environments would make all the difference. The tunnel system was great but it got a bit monotonous. The outdoor environments of Descent 3 was a welcome addition but I found the open vistas was not conducive to compelling game play. In addition to tunnels I would like to fly and do battle in more familiar environments like cities. Think a flying version of Half-Life 2.

The other problem is the matter of controllers. I’ve played Descent with several game pads but they svck. For a visceral experience of flying there is nothing better than a joystick. My weapon of choice was the old Thrustmaster Mach-something. This joystick was not very well made but what I liked is that it is the only joystick I’ve seen that has buttons for every finger. Many joysticks have plenty of buttons but having to use a joystick with two hands is ergonomically unsound. With the Thrustmaster you had the combination of axis and hat switch, buttons for forward/reverse, and still have buttons for primary/secondary weapons, all easily actuated with one hand.

I’m not familiar with the Wii system. I certainly look forward to trying the new Descent at the video store. Ultimately I think Descent 4 will have to be a PC game. Sorry guys but you may be best off to package a custom Descent joystick with the game.

I also hope you stick to battling robot enemies. I’m all for violence in video games but not against people. Mechanical damage with spurting lubricants is just as satisfying as severed limbs and spurting blood. In fact there is more creative opportunities with robot destruction and targeting. The typical slasher stuff is getting to be a bore.

With respect to the above I’d like to see Descent 4 to maintain the same basic game play that made the earlier versions so compelling and fun to play.

Hello. I'm new here. My name's Tony, and although I'm an engineer, I've never learned how to program these game levels (i.e. Mission-Builder). For me, coming home and getting lost in a game is the perfect way to unwind. And Decent 3 was for many years my favorite game as well. Perfect mix of Sci-Fi fantasy with a good sense of flight. I also really liked that it wasn't a blood and guts game as well. There's too many of those out there.

Today, I mess around with mostly the flight sim games for PC. And I agree, PC's are by far the most versatile. What makes the flight sim games so good? It's very realistic, and the graphics have improved so much. What I see in the flight simulators out now is what I also see in what Decent 4 could be. It could be a huge step forward. The timing is unfortunate. What, almost a decade now? I fear that many of the former enthusiasts (like myself) have moved on, out of frustration waiting for this Decent 4 that never came. But we'll come back just as quickly.

What I suggest is to try and advertise this game. Look at how the new Halo game is being advertised. A good marketing strategy is also excellent insurance. Secondly, offer a wide range of gaming platforms. I suggest PC use as being the main media, but it would only help its popularity if it's also available with Wii, Xbox, etc. But don't offer one of those and NOT offer the PC version. You can't ignore your roots.

I also feel that Decent 3 was awfully buggy. I never knew about the patches that were available, and not being the computer programmer type, I wouldn't know what to do with the patch if it bit me in the ars. Sorry. I'm a user, not a game-builder. So please test the new Decent game and try to weed out the patches. To this day, I have an unpatched Decent 3 game in which some levels are unbeatable. I can use cheats to get by those levels, but it would be best if it's not "Microsoftized" (rushed to market without adequate testing). I do want Decent 4 badly, but I also want it to work well.

Thirdly, I think one of the limitations to Decent 3 was the extreme difficulty of some of the levels. I don't have any problem with a level that requires improving skill to beat it. What I don't like is a level that you need an IQ of near-genius level to figure out just HOW you're supposed to beat it. There were a couple of levels like that. Incredibly fun, but I never figured them out.

Then again, it's also taken me almost a decade to figure out there are forums on the subject.
Figures. Hopefully, I stumbled on the right forum.
And guys, I'm the first one to admit that I don't know everything. So please be nice to the "newbie".
Thanks!

I totally agree that a new
Graphics at the level of UT3 will be more than enough and runs good on most computers today.

But the main think I hope about Descent 4 is that they wont rush it,
We waited for 10 years , we can wait more until gamesas is fully back on their feet and able to make a game of these porportions, I would really hate to see Descent 4 going out as a small game and then failing in sells because of it.
I really hope they will also advertise it like miwtech said , When this game comes out I want everybody to know about it, not only the hard core fans, hopefully many of the old Descent fans will come back to it.

About making levels in cities , I'm against that, A classic descent for me is post-terran-mines like in D1&2.
I do like the idea of being able to get out of the mines like in D3 but it should be better implemented and have a much bigger and open outdoors.

Oh and pleeeeaassssss dont make any robot that punch with their fists like in D3 beaaaaaaa

Personally, I'd like to see the next Descent itteration built on something like the CryEngine 3. IT has joystick support and does the 360 degree thing. I think that UT3 will do it, but it's not happy to. It might require a commercial licence to get to the core source too to mod it correctly. You can try NOW on the non commercial license if you want. You just can't make any money on it and you get access to something like 85% of the engine's features.

I think the Cry Engine is purdierr. ;D Also, if you'll remember what when D3 first came out, it pushed EVERYONE'S systems to their limit. It was used for bench marking for a while. Q3 (which came out a bit before D3 did) ultimately became benchmark king. The user base was much larger. It might be that Descent is being worked on right now. SkunkWorks stuff ya know. (ooh.. sry, some of ya might be too young to know what that is. )

An engineer should be able to apply a patch.

Download -> double click -> watch until it's done -> be happy.

Hard?
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

As a computer engineer myself I agree that a game
should come out only when its free of almost all the bugs.
(after all the only bug free program is a "Hello world" program)
I spent many long nights working on code to make it bug free until the deadline.

Patches are welcome for more content like ut3 - black edition.

miwtech,

http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?topic=536.0

Sure, not state of the art, but at least something until we can get our hands on a real, modern Descent 4.
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

My Descent 4 wishes, well I just want alot of things to collect to make my collection even bigger So to make this possible, a separate USA and EUR version would be cool, as different Box Arts would go, a PC, Linux, Apple Macintosh and Playstation version would be welcome, probably an X360 and Wii version, to make it more complete, the more versions the more there is to collect, collectors Editions is an idea, models of the robots or spacecraft you fly like the PyroGL, Pyro-GX things like this, would be welcome as well, maybe a DVD as extra with the making of and how you all got to the idea for a Descent 4 and everything that took place when gamesas and Outrage were discussing this idea, and how the story would of been if Descent IV: Invasion would of taken place, you name it, just make it a very cool and complete package that will blow any Descenter's mind, that is what I'd do with it. Holder Of The World's Largest Descent / Freespace Collection:

To be perfectly honest, the computer on which my copy of Descent 3 is installed is one that has been completely removed from internet use. It's an old computer, with a hot video card and it does gaming pretty well, so that's all I use it for. Therefore, downloading a patch is not so easy on this computer, you see?

I'm not saying I can't figure out how to do a patch, I'm saying I thought I couldn't do a patch, at all. When my computer was on the internet (before the problem it has now), I searched for patches, looking for gamesas, and found that it was out of business. I did not know about some of the websites that support Descent games and provide patches, such as Planet Descent.

Hard? Yes. In that regard.
And I am NOT a computer programmer. I'm a EE. Sure, we've had C and C+ in college, but I honestly haven't messed with any programming since then. So just because I'm an engineer, doesn't mean I know everything. And it's sort of a pet peeve of mine that that's precisely the expectation.

Now that I know about the patches that are available, I'm sure I can download them on one of my laptops, burn it to a CD, and then install it on the gaming computer.

Now, let's get back to the topic.

Here's a wish...

In the past few years, I've really gotten into Microsoft's combat flight simulator. The first version was kind of similar to Descent 3 in that when you took damage, your life-strength decreased until you died. But you never saw any damage.

As CFS improved to #2 and then #3, damage was programmed in so that if your fighterplane took fire, it would actually show the damage taking place on the plane in real time, which you could also feel in how the plane handled. Provided you didn't explode, your plane could degrade to the point where it really was not flyable anymore and you'd have to punch out.

This sure would be cool to add to Descent 4. As you take fire, your ship shows the damage and performance steadily degrades. As a pure spaceship, this isn't really how it would happen. But Descent 3 ships mimicked aircraft flight by banking as you turned. Simulating aerodynamic flight is not such a bad idea. All the sci-fi movies do.

I also think it would be cool to be able to actually leave the surface of a planet and chase enemies into space, rather than being held within the confines of the specific level you're in.
And then when you change levels, it would be cool to actually be allowed to pilot your ship off the planet, dial in your next destination (which would be the next level)- or even a previous destination (level)- and then hit a hyperspace button and then be transported to your next level...which you would then have to fly down to, from space.

I don't know exactly what to expect from D4, but I really hope they drastically expand the game to really be spectacular; and not just an upgrade to D3.

Descent is very different in the way that you have a shield that protect the ships hull, so that the ship doesn't get damaged .
Your idea can be implemented after the shield is reduced to 0. and then if the ship is damaged even when you get more shields the ship should still be crippled.

Yeah, I like that. That makes sense.
I mean, I like the lightning bolts around the ship just before it dies, but it still has its full abilities in D3. I'd like to see a more crippling effect.

But my favorite idea really is how you would travel from one level to another. Rather than being loaded into a mother ship, I like the idea of actually being allowed to fly out of the gaming level's area, through the atmosphere and out into space. Then select the next destination, by "loading it into the ship's computer" for automatic navigation, and then hit hyperspace and have the effect of actually being pulled into light-speed. Also, additional realism such as plasma around the spacecraft as you enter an atmosphere, would be great, along with details such as having to watch your speed so that it doesn't get critical and burn up on the way in.

If something like the latest Halo engine can be utilized, then each flight area can be loaded up AS YOU APPROACH IT. That way, your PC doesn't have to store such a massive amount of information. I think that's basically the way Microsoft does it in their flight simulators, and in this way, you can traverse great distances. Having that kind of freedom of movement could really revolutionize the Descent 4 game, and in fact, would make it on the same level playing field that other modern games now have.

Back when they were developing D3 and Outrage was asking for opinions and Ideas, I requested ablative armor that would give you say.. 30 points worth of defense once the shields were down. They thanked me for the cool idea, but implementing that kinda thing was past the development curve. That is to say, it would have to have been included in the game engine(s).

Also, a pyro doesn't act like a plane. Perhaps more like a helicopter. It does not require continuous forward momentum. The slight banking that is there when you turn may have been put in for a couple of different reasons. Maybe for visual aesthetics, maybe with the idea of offsetting g-Forces when turning. Maybe it just "made sense" to the developers. We will probably never know.

Remember that the only thing taking damage when your ship is hit, is the shields. The weapons in Descent are at such a high energy yield, the regular skin wouldn't withstand a naked hit. So there are no "damage indicators". That's why in this game it is absolutely necessary to keep one on the HUD at all times.
Oh, btw, the rendering idea that you are describing is called "LOD". Nearly every game does it.
They just do it at different ranges. The xbox is so under powered for a game like Reach that the LOD is at a closer range; so you will notice it more. D3 has a setting for it as well in the graphics options.

I haven't played D3 much lately. My old video card died, and it used to do a nice job with Decent 3. I replaced it with a much more powerful video card, and now the performance is actually worse with this game. The video card overheats and crashes the computer, unless I have an external fan blowing in the side of the computer with the cover panels removed. Plus, when a lot of action hits simultaneously, the image on the screen becomes "jumpy" and delayed. You can tell the computer is struggling with it.

#1, I need a good video card that'll work with D3.
#2, I need a lot more RAM to go along with the video card.
#3, I need to get it fixed so it can access the internet to download patches.

And #4, I need to get it to work with my joystick, because it never did.

THEN, it would be a cool game again.
Interestingly, Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator works just fine with this video card, but didn't work worth a damn on the old video card. I'm not sure I understand why CFS would improve but D3 would get worse.

Were you running the game in D3d?

That isn't supported anymore, at least in that kind of format. While D3 was coded first for Glide (voodoo cards) then D3d, it svcked at OPGl. In the post-mortem they did on the game's development, they said that coding for all 3 formats was nothing short of a nightmare.

What card are you running, what drivers are you using? And what are the settings you have the game on?


The game hasn't done that to any of the 5 vid cards I've owned since the Voodoo 3K. (which I still have!) So I'd say whatever is going on is intrinsic to your system. TECH TIME!

Sorry for the long delay.
Know what? I don't remember what card I'm using. But I can look it up when I get back home.

I have an older method of plugging the video card into the motherboard, which is no longer supported. You can still get SOME video cards for it, and this was one of them. But after buying it, we've read reviews on it that complain about the card's bad overheating problem.

Really, I would like to upgrade my video card to the best I can get with the old motherboard format...if I can. I realize at some point in time, I should get a totally new computer, but when I do, it will be an Apple.
But in the meantime, as long as it works, might as well use it.

And that brings up another question. Does Descent 3 work on any of the latest Apple computers?

incidentally, new Apple computers are Unix based OS now, built on Intel CPUs. ..That and I think they're stil Scsi...a good thing...

Simple question, hard answer.
If you want to use the Macintosh D3 client, then no, it will no work on the latest Apple computers. The reason for this is that the Macintosh D3 client was created for Mac OS 9. For a while Mac OS X had a Mac OS 9 emulator (called Classic) and the Macintosh D3 client did work in it (although there were a few bugs here and there). But the latest version of Mac OS X does not support the Classic emulator anymore, let alone Intel based Macs definitely did not support it with the difference in CPU architecture. Therefore, no, you can not run the Macintosh D3 client on the latest Apple computers.
But there is now an interesting twist to this. You can install x86 Linux onto the latest Macs and then run the Linux Descent 3 client there. I will leave this as an exercise to the reader.


SCSI, as in Small Computer System Interface? As in a hard drive connection type? Then, no, Macs do not have SCSI connections any longer. Only SATA. Peter
"Another one bites the dust!"

Ahhh , right you are. Thank you. Just looked it up. ...guess a little due diligence would be useful huh?

And Bearcat, I too would LOVE to buy a mac ... (either Pro or iMac) but yikes! $$$$ I don't have that much cash to spend. Almost might as well buy an Alienware box.
Kevin Bentley was working on the 1.5 patch (is, but haven't heard from him in almost a year) which included older Mac compatibility. He has some stuff on U-tube demoing it. pretty cool stuff. I don't know if he is working on new mac functionality though. :\

Yeah, I followed that thread too. Basically he used the Linux port and went from there to make a Mac OS X version. In fact, all platforms are based off the same code base! Generally speaking, it would be easier to port Linux to Mac OS X than it is Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Funny how that works out. Pretty cool how Matt Toschlog even showed up in the thread! Peter
"Another one bites the dust!"