Well-being of Markarth

Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:22 am

Ok, so this isn't exactly anything new, but I have spent more time than ever before thinking about this on my current playthrough;

Regarding the quests present in Markarth - perhaps the most corrupt and troubled city in Skyrim (subjective) - and namely 'The Forsworn Conspiracy / No One Escapes From Cidhna Mine', I have been further contemplating the choices that must be made.

Centerpiece: Thonar Silver-Blood and Madanach, the King in Rags.

Markarth is a city that - no matter what - ends up in a somewhat ambiguous state, it's simply about deciding what choices make the most sense from a RPing perspective.

Countless times, I have gone through the Forsworn questline on every character without thinking too much about it - and almost every time I have ended with killing Madanach and escaping alone, being greeted by Thonar upon leaving the ruins.

This is the first time that I have considered actually skipping over the entire quest and allowing it to become cancelled following Markarth's entry into the hands of the Stormcloaks. This is where things reach the point of pure RP (I'm not talking about gameplay/visible world effects).

The point where this idea gives me pause is the thought of people like Madanach and Nepos remaining alive, as well as Thonar being able to potentially continue his crooked manipulation of Madanach.

The thought of the Stormcloaks being in charge makes things more agreeable - as is shown by the quest being cancelled (implies that the stormcloak guards would not allow/follow such conspiracy nonsense) - but I still find it unsettling to think of these crooked individuals remaining when I know of their true nature.

So then I come back to the idea of pursuing the quest and killing Madanach - but this brings me to the moral dilemma that many have faced: the fact that you are essentially assisting Thonar - the real man behind it all. I don't have much of an issue with Thongvar, as he is more of a straight-up stormcloak supporter, but Thonar is a spineless puppet-master with an over-bloated ego.

Do note that my current character is a Nord Stormcloak supporter with a heavy cultural connection to the Skaal (tradition and value-wise).

Needless to say, this is one of the most morally grey quest-lines in the game, but I've just been having particular difficulty finding proper justification for any choice on this current playthrough.

Is it worth going ahead with the quest knowing that it will involve my noble character being sent to prison where he will inevitably need to kill to get out?

Is it worth allowing the quest to become non-existent under Stormcloak rule and remain blissfully ignorant of the city's issues - even though deep down I know that all is not well, and Thonar's corruption is most likely as rampant as before?

Anyways, I would very much like to see what anyone thinks about this matter, and how you approach and interpret the well-being of Markarth and its future.

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gemma king
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:32 am

Do you want to satisfy your RP or your meta needs? If you ignore the quest and the city goes over to the stormcloaks, how would your character know that things are still amiss?

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..xX Vin Xx..
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:17 am

I found a way that is nicely golden mean, in my eyes.

Spoiler
Most times I kill Madanach in his cell after pickpocketing the key from the Orc. Then I escape, get the reward from the Silverblood guy and then kill him. Often by pickpocketing a poison on him. If done fast enough no-one will see you do it, no bounty or hostile guards. I also tend to avoid the casualties in the bank place by simply never going there, so the Silverblood woman gets to live and becomes a widow. No new dialogue from her or the old maid/ Forsworn agent who also gets to survive. In Nepos' house I pickpocket the journal from him and then sneak out again. After the quest all the inhabitants surive but are hostile if you enter their house.

This way the heads of two corrupt organisations die with minimal other casualties.

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Alexx Peace
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:46 pm

I never kill Madonach or his Forsworn so he can kill Thonar and the corrupt guards. Thonar is worse trying to use Madonach for his own greed instead of just killing Madonach. After killing Thonar and the guard, they leave Markath and go to their hideout. They retain friendly disposition with the player if encountered there. All other Forsworn unassociated will attack you however unless you are wearing the Old Gods set.

I never do the Civil War quest until I have completed every quest in the game besides the main quest (I only do the Dragon Rising quest then I simply ignore the Greybeards until later). My goal on most characters is to do every quest in the game, though the outcomes of each quest may differ for each character. If you do the Civil War quest prior to completing various quests, it will often screw something up.

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lacy lake
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:43 pm

Thanks for the responses.

Unfortunately, my character is absolutely not the kind of character to back-stab.

Thus, I can not justify killing Thonar.

It's even difficult for my character to take out Madanach, but it's a bit more justifiable.

Remember that this is purely RP we're talking here.

The thing I like to think is that after everything is over, Thonar might cut back on the corrupt behavior (seeing as his wife is dead, madanach is dead, and I possess enough info to expose him publicy for the crook he is [even though no such option actually exists])

Still though, it's difficult to figure whether or not my skaal-born nord would get involved with such a thing. I'm the kind of person who gets irked by things left open - with the vigilant in markarth being a prime example.

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Lauren Denman
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:00 am

A craggy wretch of a city, never thought Id ever agree with anyone from the Thalmor but Ondolemar took the words right out of my mouth.

Molag Bal, a cannibal peasantry, racial tensions waiting to explode (one of these days the Reachmen are going to try and take back the Reach, and when they do, blood will spill), A Corrupt family housing a terrorist basically runs the place, puppet Jarl, so many problems with so little in-game solutions.

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Kortniie Dumont
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:02 pm

Side with Madanach, then after you kill Thonar simply betray Madanach and kill him too. Best of both worlds. The corrupt leader is dead and so is the leader of the Forsworn.

Thonar is arguably worse than Madanach. Just roleplay that your character is making a personal sacrifice and compromising his own ethics to help the innocent citizens of the city.

Or perhaps You side with Madanach just for his help in escaping and Thonar leaves your character no choice but to kill him in self defense. Then you kill Madanach because you realize what a monster he truly is and his continued existence could only lead to more death.

If you have a good imagination you can justify anything.

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RaeAnne
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:45 pm


You know that your character will end up in prison, but your character doesn't know that until it happens. Make your decision based on the information that your character has access to, not that you have access to. So, would your character want to leave such an obvious injustice as the guards ignoring a murder/attempted murder in the marketplace uninvestigated? Your answer to that will make your decision for you as to whether or not to even get involved.


Again, you know that all is not well, but does your character? And is your character aware that he cannot right every injustice in Skyrim? Is he OK with that, or would he feel the need to try anyway?


For me, it has differed from character to character. For example, I had a sneak thief character who didn't touch that quest: the potential for notoriety--something she avoided at all costs--was too high. Also, as a thief, illegal activities didn't exactly bother her, and she had little outrage over Thonar's antics. Another character of mine, a Stormcloak-supporting mage, decided to eliminate Madanach so that the SCs would have one less hassle to deal with when taking over/holding the Reach. Actually, I also had an Empire-supporting bard character who decided to eliminate Madanach for similar reasons, although of course, she was more concerned about the problems it would save the current administration rather than an incoming SC administration. My first character was a naive Breton who identified and sympathized with Reach natives, which led her to help Madanach escape. I call her naive because she didn't consider that a lot of Reach natives hate the Forsworn, so she wasn't actually helping most Reach natives by supporting the Forsworn. Anyway, she was shocked and horrified at the carnage that followed the escape, and felt totally guilty after that. Her guilt and remorse actually informed the rest of that playthrough, so I consider it a good thing!

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Arrogant SId
 
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Post » Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:30 pm

Have only played through twice...both times I have avoided the Markarth politics (once as a Nord warrior, currently as a Redguard archer who sided w/ the SC). The characters both viewed the city as a total mess to be avoided...silver wealth corrupts all. The Nord attempted to help until the guards attempted to arrest him. He fled the city, "These people are hopeless." The Redguard is definitely not a fan of the Forsworn: she has been attacked too many times. She sums it up: "Nice dogs, bad city," Maybe my third character will tackle the city's many moral problems!

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Jessie Butterfield
 
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