sounds ok to me.

By the way, the setting is taking a bit longer because I'm trying to make it an explicative story.
I don't know if I should give away anymore before I'm getting it done.

thats ok, when are you thinking of starting the sign/up.

Don't peg me down to this, but I feel like I can only give away date, place and some general info before 1700 hrs since that's when I've to leave for some obligations. That's likely, considering it's near 1600 hrs over here and I've got a bunch of work to do on other things. I'l only be able to get back to work after 2100 hrs, so it depends on how tired and creative I'll be tonight. In any case, I'm trying to pull this off ASAP.
Edit: have to solve something, will have to leave at 5, so I didn't improve or add much since the original post unfortunately.

That's usually how it's expressed in write-ups. Commonly the order goes:

Execution -> Search/Location Change (if applicable) -> Sleep -> Murder -> New Day.


I really like how you've outlined the rules for feedback from us vets, but can I suggest you steal the rules from some prior game for your sign-up? Current format's a little imposing.

Are you suggesting I should drop all of that? :blink: There are things I thought about myself and I suppose they can't be nicked like that.
If it's just about writing style, I hope there's someone who can help out and render it more readable if that's the issue.

Whilst your efforts are commendable, I have to agree with those who said that it'd be a better idea to play a few more games. It's nothing about you personally, from what I can gather from your posts you'd do better than some players we've had, but still, you can't rely solely on intelligence. It sounds strange, but Werewolf as we play it here is a game of habit. You can observe games all you want, but you just will not get the correct feeling for a game. You'll probably be able to produce a fancy writeup, but would you be able to handle questions during the day? I've only hosted once, a game which I thought to be sub-par. Would you be able to judge for yourself if your game was going well or not? I don't think you would, simply because you lack the amount of games of Werewolf played on these forums. We've had people before who claimed they wanted to host a game after just 1 or 2 games, and as far as I know we've always rejected those offers simply because the consensus was that they were not ready. It would be unfair to them if we were to let you host.

Now that that's out of the way, I hope I didn't come across as too rude. With regards to your last question of DC suggesting you drop all of that; he's not. He is suggesting you copy the ruleset used for this game or any other, really, and then twist that set to your own will and preference. You can always add your own new ideas, but be warned; there should be no changes to the base of the game. Spicing it up can be done, but shouldn't be overdone. Experimental games have been done (successfully) in the past, but by experienced hosts. For your first game, you really should stick to the ruleset that has been "standardized". Of course, the 48-hour day is an exception that is needed for you, but once again, be careful. You'll have to find something to keep everyone amused for two times as long as usual, which is quite a challenge.


Disclaimer: These are just my thoughts. They're a bit mean, because I mean. I hope I didn't offend you in any way. Feel free to call me names, or preferably ask questions.

This starts to sound as a familiar story. So what do you expect me to do now? Just throw in the towel and say "Okay, I quit before I've posted a single letter" just because fanatics can't help but give flak before I've even got a chance (I think it's right to consider this presenting of my ideas a conceptual stage)? This starts to look like an exclusive cult that preserves special knowledge, it even has nothing to do with my intentions or abilities as a host. Automatically because the High Council has decided I am a newb, all my ideas must be abysmal (we're not even in the stage of executing them yet). It's kind of hard to say beforehand whether I'll do a subpar job or not. Now I do assume moving on from the card game to the forum version will prove "instructive". You people keep amazing me. I suppose the aftermath thread will prove useful, although I already requested here that people can have a look at my plans and only Donkey actually did so in a helpful way (I recognize some more came in to confirm some of this). After all this debating, I still don't see the huge disaster in getting a chance and so it seems, more importantly, your trust I won't ruin your day by those five minutes taking a look at the current state of things and making that vote. I think it's totally worth it. I'm putting all this time in writing my own ruleset and creating a setting that can support a story for the length of a game. Besides, I don't see the point of being mean to a person who means no harm to the community, quite the contrary really. I'm just getting used to it because I've seen and heard it all before. Lock on and fire away.
By the way, how could calling you names possibly do any good? :blink: :pinch: :confused:

Dont give up man, and i dont see why everyone is worried, even if the game doesnt turn out great, its really no harm done.

Whilst I do side with the majority of the vets in terms of the experience thing - surely it's better to have a game rather than no game? If no one else is willing to step up to the plate then we could give it a go??

I'm goin' to have to disagree with parts of your assessment.

I find that observin' games is more beneficial then playin' them. Lurkers have been able to jump in and avoid many of the common noob mistakes and the ability to view the game from an objective stand-point is good for a host. The one major problem I've seen from hosts with limited games is that they lack knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes or in other words, how to handle players who posses roles. If Krigaren is to host I would like him to first read some of the private pms between hosts and wolves to give him a feel for the game.

I'd also like to remind some of the newer vets (those of y'all who have been here for ~20 or so games) that Woolly hosted after playin' only one full game, Mr. E after four, and I after five. None of us had experienced bein' a member of the wolf team (I think) and we turned out to be okay. So, while I will agree that hostin' without a single game will be a challenge, the hard part of hostin' without ever playin' as a wolf has been accomplished multiple times.

As for the people who have wanted to host after only playin' one or two games bein' to told wait... I myself (and a lot of vets) have been very a stronger supporter of this, but it was based more around the fact that those games crowd out the established hosts. When summer hits a lot of the newer players want to put out their games, this is not a bad thing to see such ambition but there will be other potential hosts with more experience competin' with them. I remember when I first proposed Devils' Island there was another fella who wanted to host. He got upset because he was told to put his game on hold because there was no way in hell that I was goin' to let some noob tell me when I was allowed to host my game. So, it is partially there in order to make way for the big games without offendin' the newer players who want to host. Since right now there is nobody else wantin' to host, he is not crowdin' anyone out. Really, this down-time is meant for the newer guys to prove themselves so that they will be able to host the summer games.

As long as he is willin' to take and ask for advice I'm willin' to see what he can produce.



Okay, normally I would have commented by now, but college is keepin' me busy. For that I apologize for not critiquin' your rule-set.

My two-cents is this, experimental rule-set games tend to fail and those that do "succeed" tend to be about average. So, we are not attackin' you personally, but rather everyone in general. This is why we suggest a standardized rule-set, the one you have right now looks sufficient. Since this is a time of low activity I will warn you that findin' players might prove to be difficult.

One more thing I would like to address is the role-playin'. The reason why this game is still allowed to be played on the forums is because it is a mystery-game first. If your game is good then the players with naturaly begin role-playin' but tryin' to promote it will do no good and will possibly take away from the game.

I was just suggesting that I thought it was a little confusing when I read it. I'd happily help you restructure it if that's what you'd rather do - I was just suggesting taking an old description of the rules and then adding any of your own rules (so far your game seems pretty close to the norm, with a few additions), but either is fine. I'm not suggesting altering the rule-set.



I disagree with Oranos and I'm all for you hosting this game (and I don't see it as being particularly experimental), but I think you're taking criticism a little personally. "Us people" are not some kind of "exclusive cult" or "High Council" who have predestined your game to failure - we're all just trying to help you host the best first game you possibly can. You don't have to take any of this advice if you don't want to, but please don't feel like anybody's targeting you, because nobody is.

Anyway my thoughts have all been stated - you're clearly smart and keen and with nobody else willing to host, I can see not a single reason for you not to go for it. Just keep an open mind and be prepared to at least consider advice from those players who have played and hosted before, and I think you'll do a fine job.


Something else which I think would be worth mentioning is that krigaren eg kjhsf hjshdjas (:P) has experienced a game before, just without actively participating - he maintained a correspondence with me throughout my game, and did a better job at picking out the wolves than many of the innocents.

I'm agreein' with wolf_bite - I hosted after 5 or 6 games, having only played as innocent (and one day of being a wolf). I think an understandin' of the game is worth more than pure experience. I mean, Fighters played about 9000 games before hostin' at it still turned out rubbish!

Just to give y'all a heads up, any member of Werewolf who mocks my Texan dialect will experience a painful death in my next game :biggrin:

I'm just hoping we get to move forward. Since my last game I've been craving some more Werewolf, and I would have played this last game if it hadn't been for my internet connection being really lousy(it still is, but I'll be damned if I'm going to miss another freaking Werewolf), so even if you turn out to do a lousy job, at least you'll be getting experience, and I"ll be getting to fill my Werewolf craving ^^. Honestly, I wish I had your courage to just go for it in terms of hosting. I just don't feel like I'd do a very good job of hiding evidence whilst still making it possible to figure out who the wolves really are. I applaud your forwardness and hope to see a sign up soon man!

It looks like a frantic fear that if I make a mistake, someone will press a big red button and nuke their place.

That was my first reason why I'd be willing to host to begin with. Everyone was like "I wantz n00 g43m" and there I stepped in offering to host while immediately self-acknowledging my flaws as well, a bunch accepted and I just have to quote myself to get this into some heads here:

And so this goes on and on, not even bothered to quote other parts where I literally said that I'd like to play first.
Now doesn't that display my huge sense of HUMILITY yet? Point proven I think.

See my quotes above. That's what I've said literally for a gazillion times.







By the way, sorry for the leet nonsense above but that expresses how fed up I am in a light-hearted way.
Victory, I didn't know I could cram this all into a single post.

just go ahead with it man, im sure more people will start signing up once you post an actual sign up :teehee:

He doesn't even have a ruleset posted yet. If he were to post a signup now, that'd be a mistake. We do have a system for this, you know.


@Person with name that noone will ever be able to say or spell:

Some time back a few of us made a wiki that should help you get more acquainted with the game here.

http://bgsfwerewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Werewolf_Wiki

That's just conclusive proof you haven't read relevant or even sizable parts of the thread. I thought you would have before making judgements like that. I have posted a first draft, to which Donkey replied. Thereafter I posted an updated one. So there are three versions in total in this thread: a draft, one with commentary and an updated one that incorporates most feedback.
I know whole nations who can, even if their citizens don't speak exactly the same language. For your convenience, I could have picked the user name "Jordb?rsyltet?y" which has a silly meaning (although as a kid I thought it owned the world) but the thought alone that English speaking persons would try to pronounce or even write this would make me laugh for a life time.
I already know that wiki. It's in my favourites, but thanks for posting anyway!


So you say if people wanted to sign up, they would do so in a thread I'd create with the purpose of signing up... Makes sense. :laugh:

Achtung! After the ruleset I feel like posting my intro. I wrote this last night (as in really night, 0200 or so) with a sleepy head, but I think it's a good one. This bit of text is pretty important too, since that's the first thing everyone will read. Their interest may depart after a bad intro, so I just leave it here so you can share your thoughts about it.

Okay, okay - I think we should all just chill a bit, especially you Krigaren. I'd have to agree you're way to defensive. None of this is a personal attack. I was told the exact same thing when I wanted to host after my second game.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, isn't whether you could host or not, but whether you have enough experience with these people. We have a bit of a culture of our own I suppose, and even if you had a better grasp on the rules of Werewolf than any of us, it could still end up being an issue if you don't really know all that much about that culture. I don't think I explained that very well, and I'm probably coming off as someone obsessed with keeping silly traditions, but unfortunately I have to go to school now.

*nevermind, this doesn't deserve an answer*

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Dead_Lounge/index.php?showforum=2 is the page where some of our former games are stored.

http://z6.invisionfree.com/Dead_Lounge/index.php?showtopic=57 page has a game where the pms were stored. I do not know which ones have them included, but I'm not goin' to spend time goin' through each page.

I recommend that every potential host go through these old games; some of those games are considered to be the best that we've had so far. They range from 2006 to the most recent games.

I more or less agree with everything DC has said since my last post (including comments on your ruleset). And unfortunately, as much as I'd like to, I don't really have the time to play . So if while hosting you have any questions ranging from "is this good evidence?" to "should I smite Fighters for breaking the game?" feel free to send me a PM if you want. Also on the Dead Lounge, I'm not sure if you're a member and can see it, but there's a section for the current game, that only the host, dead players, and people not playing the game can see. You'll be able to ask any questions there and get quick feedback on how players think your game is going so far. So all that being said, I wish you good luck.

Have you given up..... or are you still working on a write up

Count me among those who doesn't have time to play right now.

I don't want to wade into this mess of an argument, but I'll say this much: insularity is part of Werewolf. The game literally wouldn't work without constant new blood, and we always want to welcome new people, but we're a little xenophobic. We don't trust anyone until we kill them a few times.

Sometimes this makes us seem like elitist d-bags, but there are good reasons for our apprehension. We've had a lot of people take for granted what it takes to be a player in a friendly competition and either flake on the game altogether or just be arrogant, presumptuous, and rude. We've also had people take for granted what it takes to be a good host and insult the efforts of their players with inattention or incompetence.

The underlying reason that people are hesitant to play a game you host because the host-player relationship is a two-way street; when we sign up, we pledge a certain amount of investment of time and emotion and we want to know that we'll get a satisfying return. We've been let down before, and that's not just disappointing in the context of that single game; it also makes it harder for us to get new players to sign up next time we host, and chips away a little at the goodwill with the mods that allows us to stay in Community Discussion rather than face exile to Spamland or the RP forum.

What we want to know, more than anything else, is whether we can trust you to see the game through to the end. When a host drops out or a signup fails, it makes us fear for the future of this little corner of internet we started carving out almost five years ago. You can understand why we might be territorial about it.

So yeah, we have rules and traditions and procedures and we think it's important that our host understands that we're going to give him our best and we expect his best in return. It's just a game, but it's a game that those of us who have been around for a while have spent hundreds of hours playing, designing, and building into a reliable community of real people. We've made commitments and done our best to hold to them and that's the constantly expanding web of human interaction that's made the game so rewarding for its' most ardent players. When, like in this past game, I am totally useless, I've failed to make the contribution I promised when I signed up.

Maybe it sounds like I take this too seriously, but that's the point: I love Werewolf and when I play and host, I view it as a commitment -- a lower priority than my real life, but a commitment nonetheless. What we want, I think, is some recognition of the fact that though this is just a game, we respect the game and we respect each other and that's something that's generally earned. I've got no problem with an inexperienced host; as noted above, I was one and I turned out all right. But just saying, "Hey guys, I get why this is a big deal to you and I'm not going to bail" would go a long way. Beyond that, Bang and I are good at helping even if we can't play.

There we go. Woolly pretty much said exactly what I meant, but had trouble wording.

However, that isn't to say I'm completely against you hosting. I guess it must be asked since it's been awhile since you last posted, but are you still interested?