My question about werewolf packs/tribes/clans/whatever, would be.. if they existed, how would they work? Ie. what would they do, how would they live, etc. A group needs to have some common purpose, and them just being all werewolves wouldn't really cut it, IMHO.


Starting with what a werewolf is (forgoing Hircine's Ring as that's atypical).. a man or mer that's forced to change into an uncontrollable beast and is driven to kill, a couple times a month (or every day before the Bloodmoon). Existing information makes me believe that a person in werewolf form doesn't remember their normal self, and a person doesn't remember what they do as a werewolf. In my mind, this puts some heavy restrictions on groups forming. Assuming groups are formed as man/mer, when they change they lose all sense of allegiance they may have had.. they could be a danger to each other (it's quite likely that werewolves can attack and kill each other), as well as the general populace (and depending on the person's demeanor, more werewolves together = more killing = bad), which would not be very healthy to survival. It could draw more attention from hunters, scare people away from town, and/or drive otherwise good people insane (effectively breaking any kind of pack). There's a question if you even could befriend someone who you know regularly kills people.

If the groups form as werewolves, then their normal-selves may not even realize it. A person might get what's going on eventually, but for 20+ days a month, they still have to have some common purpose to effectively remain a group, and some of the previous points still apply. Additionally, in any significant numbers, werewolves working together would be a serious threat, and it's my understanding that werewolves are barely known to exist, let alone be a significant problem in the empire as a whole.


Going with that, then, there's really only one way I can effectively see packs forming. If there's a common purpose in looking for a cure, or in keeping each other sane, it would be easier with someone that you can talk about it with more openly instead of having to hide it. Though they still would have trouble with the locals.. more werewolves in an area means more people being killed, etc. They could try to lock themselves away when forced to transform, but I don't know if not fulfilling bloodlust is considered fatal for non-player (ie. non-special) werewolves, or what kind of psychological effects not killing could have. Otherwise, a pack that regularly hunts together would be too much of a threat to let remain, or would quickly run out of food supply. I'm not sure what else a werewolf pack/tribe/whatever could do that wouldn't involve one of these.


That's how I see it, though I'm curious about other people's thoughts.

Well I generally agree with you there, but it's highly possible that after awhile the members of the Pack might realise what they're and what they have to do to keep themselves together.

As you all know, Werewolves are furious creatures, and the people who transform will most likely be killed by the Guard or thrown out of their homes, and therefore when finding others with similar "problems" join together to survive.

Of course it's highly possible that Werewolves can turn against each others, but still it's also likely that Werewolves can share a great bond with each other after awhile.

Of course they need to somehow find a place where they can find enough food to sustain the hunger.

Right, but that's my point. A werewolf must kill. The more werewolves there are together, the more people get killed and the more attention they draw to themselves. As a werewolf, you can't really control that, as you're not in a rational state of mind. If you're trying to survive, drawing attention to yourself is the last thing you want, lest the guards or hunters find you out. Basically, joining together would be counter-productive to surviving in most cases.

Exactly BUT it can also be very good if Hunters find your cave/hideout.

But first and foremost they need to find a suitably large area with lots of food to hunt.

After being changed into an ancient beast and the personification of a deity, why would you continue to associate along artificial geographic lines?

I suppose it depends on the area (size, population density, etc), availability of guards, and prevalence of hunters. I still don't think it would work in most cases though, since enough "food" (ie. people) would imply towns/cities, which means guards. It would have to be in areas of smaller settlements, but then there might not be enough for long term sustainability. The more food there is, the easier you can be discovered, thus fewer werewolves needing fewer people would have a better chance of surviving.

An interesting question I just thought of, though.. does one werewolf need to kill one person? Or would two or three werewolves killing and eating one person fulfill those two or three? In that case, having more werewolves together may not be so problematic, assuming the werewolves wouldn't attack each other and don't kill beyond their need, but larger groups would still have issues.

Indeed one Werewolf dont need to eat One person to sustain their hunger, but they could share if they would be able to share this bond.
But also, Werewolves dont need to eat People but could just as well eat other meat.

To the first section. The curse comes from Hircine himself. It'd be pretty silly if all Hircine wanted you to do was kill anything, but instead punishes you for not killing a human(This is true in both Daggerfall and Bloodmoon). As Hircine explains himself in the final trial. He wants someone sporting to hunt. He wants a challenge. So his werewolves are given the same goal. Kill something challenging. People tend to be defaulted for this in Beth's games.

As for the second, where do you propose they came from? Even Molag Bal had to infect the first vampire personally. Either Hircine, or one of his representative hounds infected the first of each werecreature.

I doubt that Werewolves would have any hideouts.... In the day they probably live a normal live... And as werewolves... they just run around the land to find a prey.. That's ALL they do.. So going to a hideout would just make no sense.... besides that they first have to find it...

Werewolves just live alone, hunt alone and stay alone... The only exception that they would be together would be at moments that Hircine tells them (the bloodmoon for example)

so, when the player becomes a werewolf, does he/she lose control over the character until the transformation phase is over? is the player still allowed to join factions and form bonds with whichever NPCs he/she wishes? is the player's every action and choice dictated by Hircine?

just a thought for all the people who say werewolves can ONLY behave a certain way.

A werewolf is driven by a bloodlust and a need to hunt and kill mortal humanoid races. Or the lycan does not, it suffers penalties that can severely hurt the person when they transform back. So, it's not like Hiricine tells them "KILL THE HUMANS/ELVES!", but more of a "You are yo hunt and consume flesh, or you will suffer heavily," and that is manifested in a complete need to kill, consume, and hunt. When they turn, they become animalistic, coupled with a really great bloodlust that is extremely hard overcome. The ring of Hiricine is the exception. With that ring, you are in complete control of your actions, and there is no bloodlust.

Lycan can still join guilds, factions, etc, but they HAVE to keep their curse a secret, and get out of town every time the full moon approaches, or else they may end up slaughtering their friends and family due to the bloodlust. It's not that they behave in a certain way, it's that most of them are driven to behave a certain way, thanks to the bloodlust infused with the curse.

i like how you quoted my post, as if you were planning to aknowledge or rebut it somehow... then didn't. :goodjob:

It's a habit to, more often than not, quote the person I am answering.

I would just say a clan is uneccessary, all werewolves appear to be of one mind, anyway. For lycan variety, there are boars, bears, sharks, etc. These roughly represent vampire clan variety.


I think wolf packs are rather fluid, and they repect eachother's territory, which may fall on their own sense of what geographic boundaries exist.


Turf Wars look like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6KJpVxxzII&feature=related

What are talking about? Hellmouth's post was a reply to the questions in your post that he quoted.

You seem to have a very big chip on your shoulder. I wonder if you treat people you meet face-to-face so rudely.

i may have taken Hellmouth's post in the wrong way, honestly. i think saying i have a chip on my shoulder is going a bit far, i just have strong opinions i'm willign to fight for just as everyone else.

apologies if i gave the wrong impression.

It's difficult to discern, really. In human form a person acts normally, though some go crazy because they can't handle the thought of what they've become, and others become recluse. However, known lore has a person unable to control themselves during a transformation, with a need to hunt and kill.. they can't talk and there's no known way of communication except from Hircine himself, and being a werewolf doesn't protect you from other werewolves. The question that arises is, is the player's ability to control themself in werewolf form a simple gameplay mechanic (after all, it would be pretty boring if you couldn't control the character in werewolf form), or does it indicate that some werewolves can retain a sense of their normal self (and if so, what are the requirements for being able to do that)? I would lean to the former, given the lore and how being a werewolf works.

that, to me, seems a very personally selective and unofficial way of determining what is canon and what is not. in real life, do you judge reality based upon the the same criteria of what you've personally seen first hand? or do you accept that other derivations might exist, based on what you understand of Nirn's laws?

i think we're all right and we're all wrong.

the questions is, "is it possible?"

No, I decide based on the likelihood of it being true given what I know, along with my own personal beliefs on the matter (which I fully admit, I could be way wrong on).


I suppose it's possible, sure, but only because it's not explicitly stated to be impossible (in the same vein then, cell phones and machine guns could possibly exist, too). IMO, though, it's unlikely given what's known. All known accounts of people in werewolf form have them as monsters showing no connection to their normal self, and their normal selves having no specific memory of their activities while transformed. If there's some "official" text that states differently, though, I'd be interested to read up on it.

Note that I don't necessarily object to clans (it really depends on the story as to whether they'd be believable in that story). But, if looking for lore-friendly names, I think there needs to be a basis in lore for them. Who can really say "Werewolves of Death" is any less lore-friendly of a clan name than "Wolves of the Northern Mountains", for example? I don't think there's anything to extrapolate what werewolf clan names would be, since werewolf clans aren't known to exist.

Actually, as lycanthropes don't remember their actions when under the influence, none of them would remember if they were part of a clan or not...

I think the best way to do a clan thing would be to just impliment the different types of were creatures. I'd love to see the were crocadile from black marsh. or the elusive wereshark. but theres also werevultures of valenwood, werelions of elsewhere, were bears of skirim, and wereboars from the illiac bay. You can become one of the last in daggerfall.