I suggested in a topic to implement a special perk tree for vampires and another one for werecreatures:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1167464-perks-for-vampireswerewolves/

...I think it would be a relatively minor effort to implement (the game already has perks and keeps track of what you do) and it would allow to customize your vampire/werecrature, create different "stereotypes" of these creatures as NPCs, improve the experience when you play as one.

Please name the next thread Werewolves&Vampires&Werebears 8!!! I'll make the thread just to be sure!

Uhh...
Why do we need so many were creatures???
There should be one were creature and that's werewolf.
Besides werebears make no sence. I'd imagine if I'd become one I would spend my day eating berries and fishing.
Which would be cool for the first 15 minutes.

Are they not in the lore? i thought that was the reason everyone who is excited about them is excited about them.

i hated the having to feed every day thing with my vampire in oblivion also. i wouldnt mind it if it was that way for 1 game week. then maybe move to every 2 days for a week or 2, then every 3-4 days, for about 3 weeks then finally once a week. but of course i would like to see the use of vampire abilities need blood and as an alternate healing ability feed. but to heal from silver, sunlight, or fire you should have to feed. no magic or potion should heal it.

They ARE in lore...
source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:On_Lycanthropy

Well, judging by their Manifesto, they are all suppose to either have goals to be allies with politics or be politics themselves or do something of higher power that will involve manipulating the lesser people for their own goals.

"By the virtue of Imperial structure and bureaucracy, Cyrodiil has become our stronghold in the third era, and we suffer no savage rivals within our boundries reveal ourselves to none, and manipulate the hand of society to mete out our agendas."

So, since the Empire is crumbling, they have reason to move location. And the whole "Cyrodiil has become our stronghold in the Third Era" could mean they changed provinces before, wiping out the clans as soon as they invade. Maybe went to Skyrim, planning on wiping out the Volkihar. They were the largest clan in the Third Era in Cyrodiil and the only. But it's no longer the Third Era and they probably moved on.

"To patron Clavicus Vile, beacon oer our affairs, we owe our successes and social stature. Our bond with Vile makes us unique among our kind, for his guidance steels our savage craving with reason and savvy. For him we live amidst mankind, and twist them to our will from offices of power."

From this alone we can see that Cyrodilic vampires have the power to blend in society, as the book "Immortal Blood" says: "If they kept themselves well-fed, they were indistinguishable from living persons. They were cultured, more civilized than the vampires of the provinces". And with this power, they can manipulate everyone and anyone around them if they are skilled enough. In-game content suggests this. Seridur, a Cyrodilic vampire manipulates the player to go and kill a fellow named Roland Jenseric simply because Roland caught Seridur feeding on his lover in an alley.
"On Our Rivals:

Most barbaric tribes think themselves powerful by the gift of Bals blood alone, and squander the gift. There are those, however,who show signs of enlightenments, and earn our attention - those such as Glenmoril Wyrd, who live within the walls of Breton cities, or the Whet-Fang sodality of Black Marsh, who use magicka to keep captives catatonic and harvest from them the red nectar. These foes may one day threaten to impugn our sovereignty within the boundries of Cyrodiil, thus compelling our vigilance. Should and enroach upon our dominion, our wrath must be swift and total ."

"There was but one tribe in Cyrodiil, a powerful clan who had ousted all other competitors, much like the Imperials themselves had done."

Gameplay elements stay true to this, as Janus Hassildor sends you to kill a group of vampires who made home in BloodCrust cavern. He clearly hates them for giving into their "Animalistic urges" and has you go there and wipe them out. Seridur, being a vampire, made a vampire hunting faction to hunt and kill other vampires. It couldn't be the Cyrodilic vampires, but the feral ones.

"On Our Conduct:

To preserve our ideals and way of life, two primary edicts shall be observed. Above all, reveal thyself and our Order to no other, for discretion is the greatest of our virtues. Do not feed where you may be found out, or on those who may not suspect your passing. Avoid daylight by lifestyle; dispel common belief in our kind, and maintain supple appearance through satisfaction of the thirst. Second, devote your pursuits to the procurement of influence, political and otherwise. Our strength is not in physical numbers, but in skillful manipulation of society. Always be mindful of our Patrons, and preserve the Order. Devote yourself to these ideals always, and the Order shall count you amongst our own."

This alone shows that Cyrodlic vampire requirements to be counted as a member is to be be a true member. Which means they must be nobles, like Jakben Earl of Imbel or Lord Lovidicus. I wouldn't doubt about vampires in the High Council either. Since they could manipulate people to kill other vampires for them, I do not see why they must leave Cyrodiil due to a vampire problem. I think it has to do strictly with the fall of the Empire.

I hope they don't use that as an excuse to make the only vampires in skyrim the cyrodilic ones. i want to play the game during the period of time that the cyrodilic vampires are trying to get rid of the other tribes/clans, i could even see it as an interesting quest where you would have to choose who to support, or at the very least be given a quest by a vampiric nobleman to kill the vampires in a nearby lake/fort/cave.

Oh yes. That would be great. Maybe a history on Cyrodilic vampire; Their true name that was "lost in history". Or did they go in Cyrodiil and take over or where they already there when Clavicus Vile made the pact. As for quests, a good vampire clan you can join. How the Order wants to take over Skyrim or something. Maybe some cool political quests of machinations and deceit and manipulation. That would be awesome. I would like to know how they ousted all the other clans that enroached upon Cyrodilic border.

And for goodness sake, the Cyrodilic vampires are suppose to be attractive. I mean, how did Seridur came to seduce Roland's lover to the point of hypnosis or the orc servant fell in love with Lord Lovidicus? Clearly they have some Dracula-esque nature in them. Feeding on sleeping people, the Count of Skingrad. Stuff like that.

I think we may see the Bloodmatron, Lameae. The first vampire to be created. And she was turned to a vampire in Skyrim, so maybe we can see a bloodline rooting down to her or maybe even meet her.

Fun fact: If you becme a vampire in Oblivion, Janus Hassildor has a 20+ disposition toward you because you are accounted as the same "Vampire faction".

The only way i can think of as to how they were able to get rid of all other clans is probably the same way Count Hassildor did, using his politicial power to get someone else to do it. But the vohlikar(spelling probably) seem to be able to defend themselves much better if they are in their element. Is there any lore in TES that shows interaction between vampires and were-wolves? i would like to see how cyrodilic vampires react to Were-wolves(Bears)

The quests should feel more shifty, kinda like a Dark brotherhood quest mixed with a thieves guild quest, you have to invade a group and manipulate members to do what you want, or turn several high-standing noblemen against one another to keep them divided and week so there easily managed. I'd love radiant story to hand you a few Vampire only quests every now and then, protect a vampiric noble man who's cover is going to be breached, or get rid of a few nosy vampire hunters who know what to look for.

And i did not know that about Hassildor, isn't it possible for him to be in skyrim too? Lol, even ugly vampires get all the girls.

That's exactly what I expect from the Cyrodiic vampires if they are included in Skyrim. Why do the work if pawns can do it for you? Radiant story with them would be crazy. You asked if there are any interaction with vampires and werewolves? Only in Daggerfall, there are mentions.

Quest: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Vanguard

"You have slain (wereboar's name), the lycanthropes' leader. They will now know better than to trespass in a stronghold of (vampire bloodline)."

Quest End:When you bring the tusk to the vampire NPC he/she will be delighted and say:

"I salute you, slayer of werebeasts. Your bloodfather will be very pleased to hear about the efficiency of your extermination. Keep (wereboar's name)'s tusk as a badge of honor among (vampire bloodline)."

Book: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Vampires_of_the_Iliac_Bay

"werewolves are a real treat, almost decadent the tincture between human and beast. A real gourmet's delight."

Yes, vampires feed on werewolves. And I am sure this is vice-versa also.

As for interaction, there is one instance where the wereboar talks to you if you hit him. he will say: "Don't make me kill you, bloodsvcker. Go back and tell (vampire bloodline) that (wereboar's name) sent you home because you didn't play nice."

Wait, werewolves talk? Maybe they can talk to another creature with similar bloodlust or any supernatural creature. In Bloodmoon we had this werewolf quest where you go to Castle Kaarstag and there we talk to a rickling named Dulk. Yes, we talk to it. Or at least he talks to us and we understand it in werewolf form.

Lol that's awesome, but it says that the wereboar is the lycanthrope leader, which is a huge for me, thanks for that info, i didn't know they would ally with other lycanthropes, i always thought that werewolves would stick to werewolves and wereboars to wereboars. i guess that makes them a much greater threat then i first thought.

I like how honest he is about the development of the game. I want both. The more the merrier.

Here's an idea for werewolves: Werewolves mostly run alone but if Hirchine has a quest for them they may unite in dozens and lay siege on cities (would be a cool hircihines quest for werewolves only to destroy a city) while in wolf form they should be considered wolf by other wolves, and if you prove your power to agroup of wolves by killing (or horrible crippeling) their pack leader, during this time the pack is yours and the wolves are yours to command... their den your home and their enemys your enemys, infact other wolf pack may attack your den and lead to an allout war until your den has been taken or your enemy killed, all this should go on during your two-day-a-month long time as a werewolf (two moons equal dubble full-moon and just because it ain't night douesn't mean the fullmoon won't show) once your back in human form the wolves will attack you, no longger seeing you as their brother and when you transform back into werewolf you'll have to find a new pack... this would truly be epic and would add so much to the 48 hours of bloodsheat...
but werebears on the other hand always run alone, hate all, and would attack even Hirchine...

Vampirism in Oblivion was an awesome addition to the experience, but I would like to see some improvements to the system.

Werewolves would be cool, I'd probably get to them on my 2nd or 3rd playthrough though.

In any case, seeing full faction(s) for each of them would be a welcome addition in my opinion.

Yes, I was pretty impressed when I read it too. It's a mixed pack of both wereboars and werewolves. I mean, they are all considered children of Hircine. So they all are together.

[/spoliers] In Infernal City, while the protagonists run in Hircine's realm, werebears hunt them at the day and at night, Hircine arrived with werewolves to hunt them down. The nords atop the werebears had to step aside to allow Hircine to take the kill. In his realm, then don't kill each other. But then again, that's his realm, his rules. [spoilers]

If there could be a tribe of Lycanthropes, mixed or not, I would be happy. There was a small territorial battle in that Daggerfall quest though between vampires and werewolves. But I prefer vampire vs vampire with a few quests against werewolves. Not an all out war between the two pretenatural creatures. I mean, they are still people in general, but still animals. Werewolves in human form suffer from mental instability and craziness. I mentioned it before. In real life lore and in Elder Scrolls. Ever watched the Wolf Man? Where Lawrence stares at Gwen with lustful bestial intent that would easily fall down to the [censored] category if he tried to force himself upon her. Others have disturbing mental breakdowns of anger and agressivness. In Elder Scrolls, we see these things too. Both in Daggerfall and in Bloodmoon.


Real life lore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werewolf

"After returning to their human forms, werewolves are usually documented as becoming weak, debilitated and undergoing painful nervous depression. Many historical werewolves were written to have suffered severe melancholia and manic depression, being bitterly conscious of their crimes."

The weakening after returning to the human form cannot be ignored in Elder Scrolls. In gameplay, each time you do not kill a single person as a werewolf, the player suffers health problems and weakness. Both Dagerfaal and Bloodmoon has this, if you do not sate the hunger for blood, your health will be sapped. If a person was a werewolf and hated it, they would simply lock themselves in a cellar or something until the night is passed. And since they did not kill anyone, making proper sacrifice for Hircine(He is the Prince of Sacrifice of mortals other than the hunt), they will suffer drawbacks.

Bloodmoon: Werewolf Npc's are named Raving Lunatic, gibbering idiot, confused lunatic, insane wanderer.

All forms of mental illness and crazyness. They are no longer normal people.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Cure_for_Lycanthropy
Daggerfall: "You must be (player's name). (hunter's name) said you might be coming to see me, although (he) doubted that you would heed (his) warning. Sadly, most do not, already too befuddled by the Beast within to save themselves"

"You're looking for (family's father)? I'm afraid that he died three years ago. Killed himself, actually, although very few know that part of it. I'm not sure what happened, but he became very moody, and began disappearing for days at a time. Left a note saying something about he couldn't live with himself, and didn't want (child's name) to find out the truth about it.

"I understand. In fact, I am almost relieved that you shun this road to salvation. It shows that the Beast does not yet wholly dominate you"

"As (child's name) drinks your blood, you feel your mind clear for the first time since you were afflicted with lycanthropy."

Lycanthropes suffer from these effects. Because they are no longer human. Vampires have their bloodlust and have to live with what they are, werewolves have some sort of inner Beast that grows and takes over. It mixes human emotions with animalistic nature with results in insanity and peculiar behavior which makes them moody, as mentioned in once instance. Some like being werewolves, this may cause other's to belive they have been "beffudled" by the Beast. Fellows like Thirsten-Heart Fang loved being a werewolf. And some considered it a gift(In Bloodmoon, you can refuse the Witche's offer for a cure by saying "No, I would like to keep my gift of Lycanthropy")

Someone else is going to make a new thread right? Sorry feeling kinda down today so I don't want to .....

Werewolf&Vampires 8 made by Werewolf&Vampire=LOLZ.

@Vampires&werewolves~Do you think that the cyrodilic vampires would be able to Manipulate the lycanthropes in some way to aid them in their battle against the other vampire clans? Then after the lycanthrope tribe is weak go in for the kill? I'd like to see were-wolves with varying thoughts about lycanthropy, some maybe self-loathing, while others relish it, all having to join a tribe for protection, and again, thank you for posting that information it is very interesting!

You would think, after being loners for so long, and with the cyrodilic tribes trying to ousts them,(possibly) they would decide to group up and take arms against their more unified and common enemy. Maybe the more willful were-wolves are able to control themselves better and are the ones who get leadership roles while the more feral ones act more as soldiers. I mean with vampires so territorial and the cyrodilic vampires (if there in) already knowing how to kill mass quantities of vampires you'd think the lycanthropes would form up and try something new, expand and conquer, or just battle for feeding grounds. The Volikhar to me don't seem the type to just go out and kill someone who hasn't encroached on their territory, and you have the vampire clan leaders who are significantly stronger than a regular vampire who run things, and been doing so for years, who would likely know what they are doing but the cyrodilic vampires would be something new to them, they would have to enlist the help of and outside force (the player) to help them deal with a menace who could cloak themselves and rile up an angry mob to start a vampire massacre.

I like the idea of The cyrodilic vampires being behind city walls able to use their high standing and power to organize frequent attacks against lycanthropes and other vampire clans, which would require cunning to eliminate, if at all, they are inside a city filled with guards and people(fighters guild,mages guild) I'm not too sure as to how a vampire clan/lycanthrope tribe would be able to defend or retaliate against something like that besides going against a whole city, drawing enormous attention to themselves. And even then if they were able to achieve that they would have a whole city to themselves, but im sure some large military force would clean them out sooner or later.

I'll be ready to post it as soon as this thread expires...

Thanks. It's possible. I mean the Cyrodilic vampires are known for their skillful manipulation and deception. If it means the destruction of a vampire can, they are capable of such acts. As far as the views on Lycanthropes by the Cyrodilic vampire, I cannot say. Since werewolves or werebears are just that, Lycanthropes. They pose no threat to Cyrodilic vampires in terms of title. Take Janus hassildor for example, he wanted you to kill a bunch of vampires near his territory. He is territorial, he is Cyrodilic Order, right?

"A nest of vampires has sprung up in Bloodcrust Cavern, southeast of the town. They are a threat to the town, and must be eliminated. Their presence has drawn a group of vampire hunters to town, following rumors of "vampires in Skingrad." While I do not believe my identity has been compromised, I do not wish to take any chances, and so cannot act on either matter. You, however, can act with impunity, and so will take care of this for me. Then I will tell you what I know"

"Cavern is silent once more. I would be foolish to think that this might send a message to those who would encroach on my territory."

I do not think werewolves would be threat for a Cyrodilic vampire, unless there is a werewolf involved with politics(Depends. They can walk as normal people do but they have mental problems, something quickly noticed, especially in politics were scheming and backstabbing is common. The werewolf would be an easy target for whatever manner of elimination)

I mean, I see it possible. The Order can easily manipulate any side of the battle to better suit their needs. But I don't see the Cyrodilic vampires being enemies with Lycanthropes, unless of course they have some sort of territorial battle. The sole reason Cyrodilic vampires hate other clans is because they consider them barbaric savages who squander Molag bal's Dark Gift of vampirism. Werewolves are feral and savage, but they are no vampires, it's their nature to be what they are and I think the Cyrodilic vampires would probably understand that and grant them leniency. This could branch many different options for the Player if implemented. Like you mentioned, the Volkihar live underneath the lakes and would be totally surprised to see some vampires who can walk in the daytime, disguise as people and basically live a "human" life. If they really want to survive the Order's cunning manipulation, they can go enlisting the help of others. But I doubt it, because "Immortal Blood" clearly says the Volkihar are "Paranoid and cruel". With paranoisa, they will consder everyone and anyone a potential threat not to be trusted.

Is their a difference between vampire hunters or lycanthrope hunters? or are they basically the same thing? I would also love to see a fight between a werewolf(maybe a pack/tribe?) who chased a deer/what have you werewolf food/person into Volkihar territory. Seeing a werewolf being grabbed by something reaching beneath a frozen lake would be priceless.

I say each werebeast and vampire clan sould have atleast one unique power...

1. Volkihar. The ability to go through ice.
2. Volkihar. The ability to freze with their breath.

3. Werewolves. If this was implemented I'd be power enough.
4. Werebears. An epic power would be the ability to grow up to x3 as big get up to x3 at all stats, health, fatigue, atributes, damage...

Vampire Hunters specielizes in hunting vampires. Lycanthrope hunters hunt Lycanthropes. Simple. And yes, a werewolf being grabbed underneath the ice by a vampire would be hilarious. I even mentioned such occurence in a Elder Scrolls fanfic I am writing.

EDIT: Oblivi Feller, have you watched episode III: Revenge of the Sith? A cyrodilic vampire would be the perfect representation of Palpatine/Darth Sidious. Just saying.

Yes, they should. Every vampire clan has a different power. Teleportation, eating men whole, turning into mist, reaching through the ice and turning victim's blood to bloody icy slurry. Some pretty unnatural powers there.

EDIT: I'm going to bed. I'm sleepy.