Werewolves VS Werelion : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:34 pm

In TES5, would you like to have Werewolves and Werelions as opposing factions to join. Just think of the adventures that would transpire. Naturally you could only join 1. :wub:

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:29 am

Were creatures should not have factions, unless Daedric in origin (like serving Hircine). Were creatures are not intelligent when in their form. They are unthinking killing machines. They certainly wouldn't take the time of day to care about another were creature, nor would the afflicted remember what happened when they were shifted anyways.

Besides, ideas and suggestions belong in the http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1058753

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:25 am

I think Wereboars and Werebears would be a nice change of pace.
But what you suggest is better than nothing, if it was done well enough.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:36 pm

Were creatures should not have factions, unless Daedric in origin (like serving Hircine)

/thread.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:47 pm

Were creatures should not have factions, unless Daedric in origin (like serving Hircine). Were creatures are not intelligent when in their form. They are unthinking killing machines. They certainly wouldn't take the time of day to care about another were creature, nor would the afflicted remember what happened when they were shifted anyways.

I like this answer.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:02 pm

Were creatures should not have factions, unless Daedric in origin (like serving Hircine). Were creatures are not intelligent when in their form. They are unthinking killing machines. They certainly wouldn't take the time of day to care about another were creature, nor would the afflicted remember what happened when they were shifted anyways.

Okay, Sounds resonable. Lets just say that they only conragate with each other during the day. At night the meeting places are empty and they patroling the land mindlessly, only attacking if your not one of them.

» Fri May 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Okay, Sounds resonable. Lets just say that they only conragate with each other during the day. At night the meeting places are empty and they patroling the land mindlessly, only attacking if your not one of them.

Yet if they are mindless, how are they going to identify who is and who is not one of them?
Lycanthropes of all shapes and sizes distrust each other and would not willingly congregate, because of the massive complications their transformations bring about, because lycanthropes are so ridiculously rare, and because lycantrhoes would view other lycanthropes as competition for survival and hunting.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:29 am

Okay, Sounds resonable. Lets just say that they only conragate with each other during the day. At night the meeting places are empty and they patroling the land mindlessly, only attacking if your not one of them.

That still wouldn't happen. How would anyone possibly know who else is a werecreature, just because they are? Even if they did, trying to have any kind of meeting would be a bad idea. Known lycanthropes are killed on sight, they're not going to advertise themselves. People with that curse, if not driven outright insane by it (which many are) tend to be very distant loners, far away from society, for the safety of themselves and/or others. Only a scarce few would lead a double life with it, since those timely disappearances would get rather suspicious.

All those factors aside, I don't see what they would need to meet for in the first place. "Hey everyone. So this curse still svcks, right? Right. See you next week." They're not going to have any joint needs/wants in their normal forms that would warrant a faction other than trying to stay alive, and grouping together would not help that. Even under the argument that other werecreatures would provide competition, that would make their own kind every bit as much an enemy.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:49 pm

Maybe the Lycanthropes would follow under Hircine and the Werelions or other forms would follow an all-powerful mage? Or it could be a rivalry between Werewolves and Vampires. But not in the Underworld-esque way but with some class.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:36 am

Maybe the Lycanthropes would follow under Hircine and the Werelions or other forms would follow an all-powerful mage?

Werelions are lycanthropes as well. Were-anything is a lycanthrope.

And Hircine is the only one with any ability to control lycanthropes, because Hircine is ultimately the source of lycanthropy.

Or it could be a rivalry between Werewolves and Vampires. But not in the Underworld-esque way but with some class.

There are problems with that as well:

Vampires stick to their hunting methods via clans, and Lycanthropes stick to their solo ways of just trying to get by without becoming insane from their monthly forays. Vampires themselves are often far too fractured along petty bloodlines and fighting themselves to actually unite into a cohesive war-like force, and Lycanthropes are too primal and mindless in their transformations to warrant working together at all; the Lycanthropes would just see each other as competition for prey even outside of transformation.

The only times that Lycanthropes DO cohesively come together is whenever Hircine has himself a big once-in-an-Era moment, such as the Bloodmoon. Vampire bloodlines have no patron whatsoever that would inspire them to come over their bloodline differences (and to give you an idea of the bloodline fracturing, in the Iliac Bay alone, there were 9 distinct Bloodlines, all pitted against each other, in just that small section of the Tamrielic continent).

In other words, if they are even on each others' radars, they don't care about each other enough in the slightest to do something about it, and even if they do care somewhat (big huge massive IF), they lack the ability to come together and fight each other.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:40 pm

my $.02 before this gets locked. How about having them be a persecuted race - in the big Skyrim cities, they could have were pits where they make were creatures fight each other and drunk Nords bet on them. Until it all goes wrong...

» Fri May 27, 2011 7:48 pm

Forgive me for my "Lycanthropes" mishap. :foodndrink: I was just suggesting. And as for the problems with Vampires and Werewolves, isn't that why there are games to begin with? To release the imagination?

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:22 am

How about having them be a persecuted race

Isn't being considered a kill-on-sight monstrosity pretty "persecuted" as it is? I could see an arena wanting to throw a werecreature in there if they somehow got their hands on one, but trying to keep a whole gang of them would be too dangerous, not to mention the fact that in human form, you basically have a pit full of slaves, which may or may not be kosher depending on the location.

Forgive me for my "Lycanthropes" mishap. :foodndrink: I was just suggesting. And as for the problems with Vampires and Werewolves, isn't that why there are games to begin with? To release the imagination?

Sure, but if you just throw things together without bothering to have a reason why, that's a failure of imagination...and vampires and werewolves really have no reasons to be at odds.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:34 pm

It's not there is no reason why. But must everything, no matter how small, conform to lore? I love the TES lore, but there is always room for change.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:57 pm

I'd rather be a werepig. Running around svcking milk from cows sounds way more [censored] then being the hound servant of the god of the hunt.

» Fri May 27, 2011 4:48 pm

I'll just throw this one out here, because it's late and I'm pretty tired: Vampiric lycanthropes would kick all kinds of ass and not break lore (maybe). Discuss! :rock:

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:28 pm

I second the motion.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:44 pm

I'll just throw this one out here, because it's late and I'm pretty tired: Vampiric lycanthropes would kick all kinds of ass and not break lore (maybe). Discuss! :rock:

That would be awesome, I like the vampiric lycanthropy. Also, the vampiric lycanthropes would have to be more then wrinkled faces with fangs.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:10 pm

my $.02 before this gets locked. How about having them be a persecuted race - in the big Skyrim cities, they could have were pits where they make were creatures fight each other and drunk Nords bet on them. Until it all goes wrong...

That'd be cool. You should make a mod of that when TESV comes out.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:26 am

I don't think i would work. It may have in bloodmoon, but then again you were the Nevarine, and desease that wasn't divine didn't affect you. In a normal person, the conflicting bacteia would fight eachother as well as you immune system, and leave you with almost no White blood cells, and only one of the virus's.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:06 pm

I thought lycanthropy was more of a magical affliction than anything else? Oh well, it wouldn't be particularly balanced anyway, haha! A guy can dream...

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 pm

How does bacteria factor into lycanthropy?

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:30 pm

It's not there is no reason why. But must everything, no matter how small, conform to lore? I love the TES lore, but there is always room for change.

It's all "there is no reason why." It doesn't really have much to do with lore. Aside from the whole "cursed transformation" idea, vampires and lycanthropes have nothing to do with each other. Because they have nothing to do each other (not to mention neither are exactly war-ready), if you randomly threw them against each other you'd have either no reason or would have to really stretch for a flimsy excuse. Either way, it just looks bad. As for lore, the setting is important with this kind of thing. Let's face it, the only reason anyone wants vampires vs werewolves is because "they think it's cool," not because it's a good idea. Unicorns that can shoot lasers from their horns would be pretty cool in some settings, but in TES, it would be pretty stupid.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:57 pm

...Unicorns that can shoot lasers from their horns...

New Year's resolution: Buy a decent PC, become acquainted with Oblivion's CS and then totally Mod that.

» Fri May 27, 2011 2:00 pm

I'll just throw this one out here, because it's late and I'm pretty tired: Vampiric lycanthropes would kick all kinds of ass and not break lore (maybe). Discuss! :rock:

Severe http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Hircine of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vaermina.
If we look at Vampirism and Lycanthropy not as regular diseases but as Daedric affiliations via cursing/blessing (or otherwise being uniquely tied to that Daedric Prince's sphere), then the idea of being tied to both spheres at the same time is unlikely. Vaermina isn't going to want (or even be able) to influence those already influenced by Hircine. And it goes the other way as well.