Kalarn: Do you have a source for that?

Having a blueprint is different to being able to build the thing - The WBOS can maintain Powered Armour, but at last report they can't scratch-build them.

Fallout 2, they got the schematics and beat the Enclave. I'm guessing they used the Enclave buildings.

Its not proof that they can build them. Navaroo is a service/refuel centre.

Having Blueprints is nice, but it doesn't mean you can build the things. The Brotherhood is short of Aeronautical engineers, resources, etc. They've spent a few years at war with the closest thing resembling a modern state in the wastelands... I think that this is currently out of their capability.

I am a huge fan of the original Fallout games but I will have to say that I like the East Coast Brotherhood a lot better. By the time of Fallout 2, the BOS was almost completely obsolete as they are no longer the largest or even the most technologically advance faction around. They were desperate enough to start a full scale invasion of the NCR in hopes of taking away technology from the hands of 'inferior people'. At this stage they are almost just as bad and evil as the Enclave.

The East Coast BOS on the other hand actually set out to help rebuild civilization and help the common wastelanders. Playing the role of an NCR for the East. They might be in bad shape right now, but in the long run they will last a lot longer then the original Brotherhood.

In terms of recruiting ability: East coast BoS has manpower to it's advantage. They recruit just about everyone.

In terms of experience: East coast BoS has been fighting a war against not only the DC mutants but also against the Enclave. EBoS was outnumbered by the mutants 500:1 (easily) and outnumbered, out-gunned and still managed to win that war (With the Wanderers help)

In terms of technology and firepower: Liberty prime and the ruins of Adams air force base (as well as the ruins of Raven Rock, which anyone could gain access to with time and heavy equipment)

In terms of personnel: The EBoS has traveled across the hostile ruins of the former United States gaining goodwill and personnel.

Science: BoS has access to the same scientists who managed to bring back Liberty Prime. No small feat.

Terrain advantage: EBoS also has the terrain advantage. The Eastern Brotherhood knows the DC area in and out.

Goodwill: Eastern BoS also has the goodwill of most of the population due to not only bringing back a pre war water network but also by a policy of helping the local population with supplies, manpower,knowhow and life giving water.

In terms of supply lines: Eastern BoS would have a lot easier time of resupplying and restocking. The Western BoS would have to fight a war across a whole bloody continent.

Command and Control: The Eastern BoS (assuming the continued existence of the Citadel) has a command center to quickly coordinate attack and defense and virtual instant communication with troops in the Field. Western BoS is moribund, slow moving and hierarchical. It could be days or even weeks between communication between whats left of the Western Command and any invasion force.

And I am not even going to speculate what conducting a two front war would do to the Western BoS. I am speaking logistically. NCR and Eastern BoS at once. Any invasion efforts, would be like Germany's war with Britain and the USSR. NCR being the USSR and EBoS being Britain.

And last but not least: Eastern BoS (assuming a lot here) also has the support of the Lone Wanderer and vault messiah.

It wouldn't even be a fight it would be a hands down one sided slapdown

The only way that the WBoS would be able to destroy the EBoS is if they landed under a flag of friendship and captured the Citadel. Even then though, I think that plenty of BoS people in the field would launch a counterattack (with plenty of local support) within a short time.

The only way that the EBoS would be able to short term make a war work would be by flying into the Citadel, blowing it sky high then working to eradicate all of the well trained, well armed and very angry BoS in the surrounding area.

Finally think about this: The highly trained, highly motivated Eastern brothers have been fighting a two front war, outnumbered, out gunned, against not one but TWO numerically superior enemies, and are coming into this conflict having lots of experience doing this without so much as a peep from anything approaching a command structure for YEARS. Even assuming that the WBoS manages to take and hold the Citadel (or blow it up). Optimistically speaking, even if everything goes RIGHT for the WBoS and they manage to wipe out and or capture everyone at the Citadel, and recruit the outcasts to do their horrible and dishonest dirty work, it would be a knock down, drag out and likely LONG war to reassert command of the area.

WBoS have better weaponry.

They both fought against Enclave and WBOS fought against the Master's army, not unintelligent escapees of Vault 87. Why does EBOS has homefield? Who says it'll be fight in either place. And WBOS has the support of the entire Brotherhood save for East... Accept it, East loses.

But as we're about to learn... The numbers of the WBOS have recently been, err, thinned.

Yeah, you're missing the fight with the Enclave. EBoS did very well at that. EBoS would HAVE to have the homefield. Even assuming the WBoS has the ability to field it's entire might against the East, and thats a mighty big IF. Central Brotherhood may have it's own problems holding down their own piece of the pie. Central also wouldn't have a "dog in the fight". WBoS may want to reassert control but why would Central want to take out the East, much less go up against them? From what I understand Central has policies more in line with EBoS. Central recruits civilians (See FO:T).

Also WBoS did fight a war against the master, a generation ago. Those guys that did fight the master are dead.

Oh and that weaponry advantage you brought up? Non existent. Even if BoS West can turn out Virtibirds by the hundreds, it doesen't help them much. You can take down a bird easily. Oh, and Raven Rock and Adams? I remember weapon salvage being a big part of the EBoS agenda. What sort of goodies do you think will come out of that?

Onto your last point. Any war fought with the EBoS would have to be fought in DC, that's their power base. All likelihood is that they would have to be burned out of their hidey holes. House to house warfare fought in the ruins where the EBoS has home field advantage, oh and tons of experience doing just that compliments of the eastern mutant plague and the Enclave.


WBoS has fought a war recently with NCR. Either it is still going on or they lost. Either way, not a good time for a second front.

I say again: Eastern BoS. Hands down, no contest.

West still has better weaponry. Different models. They have superior equipment for each soldier

The WBOS did Jack against the Master, except from a few isolated skirmishes. The folks that went with the Vault Dweller into Mariposa are dead of old age. They didn't send anyone to the Cathederal.

Yep. I was speaking of the larger conflict between the mutants that comprised the masters forces and the WBoS.

I will also launch into a slight aside here: BoS Central is according to the Fallout Bible known as the Midwestern BoS. They refused the larger authority of the WBoS and the Broken hills elders, they were then declared a "splinter faction". I highly doubt that they would drop everything to wage a war a thousand miles away on the say so of a severely weakened Western Brotherhood.

I've read the "Fallout Bible" along with the events in Fo3 and from what canon sources I've seen, WBoS hasn't a chance against EBoS.

They may have the better weapons, but they don't have the numbers.

If it was set in completely neutral territory away from major bases and all that The EBoS would win because for every man and woman that fell they could keep replacing them longer than the WBoS could. The weapons that the EBoS have aren't even that inferior, even more so after the events of Broken Steel

West Coast BoS then Midwestern BoS which aren't on the list :stare:

Midwest BOS teamed with East Coast BOS beats WCBOS! C'mon, the MWBOS beat the Midwest Muties and The Calculator's/Skynet's machine army, plus it spawned Elder Lyons!

Elder Lyons isnt from the MW. Elder lyons was tasked with attempting to restablish contact with them, but failed in this.

The EBOS has the Lone Wanderer and the WBOS doesn't.....any tech advantage the WBOS has will speedily fade away as WBOS troopers get Emancipated from this plane of existence by his Lincoln Repeater and the stuff he lifts from thier corpses gets sold to merchants/Durga/ect., traded for ammo to the Outcasts, and Reverse-pickpocketed onto deserving people from Big-Town to Tenpenny Tower. .

Western BOS appears to be in a bad way right now from the sound of things in FONV.

EBOS? They just toppled the last big Enclave force, and are sitting on a spare Vertibird cockpit seat perched atop a giant mountain of spoils from that engagement. They have a mass water purifier. They have an airfield. They have operational vertibirds. They have Enclave-manufactured weapons and armor. They have a second Liberty Prime in the works.

While the Outcasts have the stigma of desertion on their head, as well as lack of discipline and insubordination amongst their own ranks.

So who's gonna get in a heapload of trouble if the Western BoS comes around again to see what's up?

Conservative attitudes like the Outcasts and the WBOS holdouts means refusal to adapt to the times. And the law of survival has always been.... Adapt Or Die.

I dunno much about the western BOS but E.BOS is far better in terms of technology , man power and liberty prime.. They have the most advanced enclave power armor which they prolly will use it for them selves. and E.BOS have the Tesla cannon , how much more bad ass can ya get ? add liberty prime to the equation and they are extremely powerful. Also remember the E.BOS knows where the mutants are coming from, its safe to say within 5 years time they would irradicate the mutants of D.C. With huge settlements like megaton and Rivet city and other small settlements to give them constant recruits and D.C ending up as a far safer place, the W.BOS don't have a chance and about the outcasts ? They are pretty much screwed big time now..

Imagine a BOS soldier with a T-51d tesla power armor :hubbahubba: armed with tesla cannons or gattling lasers :celebration:

Liberty Prime is scrap metal. The Enclave Armour in FO3 svcks and is by no means the most advanced armour type seen.. The armour the Enclave had in FO2 is way more advanced. Advanced PA and Advanced PA MkII. The Super Mutants on the East Coast are not the same super mutants on the west coast.

Midwestern BoS are the most advanced. They have an army of Robots from Vault Zero. They have a captured manufacturing facility. They have a Nuclear power plant. They started letting in Super Mutants and Ghouls. They also recruit locals.

Still the Western BoS are secretive. They should have vertibirds.

Enclave armor svcking in FO3 is gameplay/story segregation. All the power armor in vanilla svcks, especially in the protection/weight aspect.

Midwest BoS is non-canon. As for their army of robots, the EBoS's Tesla Cannon will be quite handy for that problem.

And nuclear power plant? Sure, but can you move it? The EBoS has a portable fusion generator design that was powerful enough to fully power Liberty Prime and also compact enough to fit in its frame. Libby was very... heh... Liberal with that http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/images/9698-1-1256422998.jpg, and the way it tears through things, it's gotta be a seriously huge power draw. On top of that, it apparently has a Tesla shield of some sort that can short out forcefields, and of course, motive systems. All big demands on a powerplant. And the EBoS has the prints for it.

And the EBoS doesn't "should" have Vertibirds, they do have Vertibirds. The combat gunship variety, not just the cargo plane variety. And an airfield to operate them out of.

I'm sure if they get in contact with Ashur that they could obtain access to industrial resources. EBoS is far more applicative with their resources than the WBoS, and that was Ashur's biggest gripe with the BoS.

I'll agree that PA in Fallout 3 svcked because there was no Damage Threshold. Still T-45 PA was replaced with T-51b armour and the Enclaves armour in FO2 just looks/is alot stonger and more tank like then the "enclave armour" in FO3.

Midwestern BoS is canon. FO3 even talks about them! Part of Lyons mission was to try and make contact with them. Fallout Tactics is canon at least "semi-canon" which means everything other then the oil drums are canon.

Midwesten BoS did come across Vault Zero and an army of Robots that include big tank robots called http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Behemoth_%28robot%29.

Western BoS again are secretive so we don't know the full extent of their tech. True the Eastern BoS could have vertibirds as well.

I would root for the WBoS but sadly they have proven that they cannot win against an enemy of numbers. As so many people have metioned in this forum time and time again was the easts open recruiting pool. At the rate the east is going though the west isn't the enemy they will be facing most likely the first enemy they are likely to face from the west is a battle hardened enemy in either the NCR or The Legion. Perhaps both as dependent upon how well the NCR does against the legion their forces may cut their losses and run the gambit of heading easy for what may seem like greener pastures. All in all The EBoS is becoming more of a nation thus I would say their military might will be in numbers and not equipment and their elite force will be power armored Juggernaut's followed by lightly armored troopers with slightly above average armament's. Not a good force to bring at the NCR since they're elite has experience fighting against power armored foe's, not to mention the WBoS likely taking advantage of that conflict to try and bring the EBoS back into the fold.

I agree, the east coast is the smart way to go.

While I like the East coasters better... in terms of whats cannon in FO:NV we don't really know.

In my game the West coasters would have the upper hand. They now have the backing of the NCR, the Boomers, and shared control of the strip/dam. They may not like outsiders joining, but they will make special cases (as in making The Courier a Paladin).

So West coast BoS has...
Mass of troops (with NCR help).
A Bomber with a crap ton of crazies with bombs.
An answer for Liberty Prime (Helios One)

Honestly however I think them fighting is as silly as it gets. The resources either would have to spend to get at one another would be ridiculous to the point that who ever was the aggressor would lose.

I love both of them in terms of story, background, characters, actions, etc. I'm a svcker for power armor.

As far as "who would win in a fight", the West Coast BoS is probably still significantly larger than the Lyons Brotherhood. However, the Lyons Brotherhood is recruiting at a much faster rate and has widespread access to Enclave tech, as well as Liberty Prime when he is rebuilt. This bodes poorly for the long-term prospects of the embattled Western Brotherhood when compared to those of the Lyons BoS.

Give the East Coast 10-20 years and it'll be no contest; they will have a fresh base of extremely loyal and numerous recruits, Vertibirds, Advanced Power Armor, and Liberty Prime.

@ dike Dastardly-

AFAIK Midwestern Brotherhood is canon in the sense that they exist and they have deviated from the Brotherhood as a whole; aside from that I don't think the specific actions of the Chicago Brotherhood are very canon.

Also, I don't believe the West Coast has vertibirds; the fact that a) they want you to steal plans for them and B) make Lyons hoof it cross-country both speak pretty strongly against the Western BoS possessing vertibird tech.