Hey,

I had a similar thread to this one here: http://www.gamesas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=28108

However, I have made this new thread for two reasons. 1) In my old thread, everytime I added or removed new voting options it would remove all votes. Over 30 votes have been lost due to this. 2) I have added another 2 options, so now there is 6 in total. I have also added the "Do Nothing" option, it took a long while but thanks to Pein he was the only person to provide a rational reason as to why keeping things the same would be better than making a change.

So as we know 90% of people love to use Stealth Enhance III (SE III) because it gives you a massive pool of cloak which has many many advantages. Here are a few off the top of my head;

1) You move so fast people can't track them easily on radar - Giving you a mini-Blind Spot
2) footsteps are silent in cloak (as per Zee said but I don't think this is the case)and more cloak means that you won't get shot from Ceth Gunship - mini-Covert Ops
3) More cloak = footsteps cannot be tracked with Tracker
4) You recharge less = less time in corner waiting around doing nothing which is annoying and also less time spent vulnerable sitting there and/or exposed to enemy radar
5) More cloak = faster movement from one area to another without being noticed
6) More cloak = less deaths = more kills = more killstreaks = less deaths + more kills = higher KD and better score

At the moment the game is very one-dimensional, it's all cloak cloak cloak because it is great to use and there is no reason to not use it, hence why 90% of people love SE III.

As SE III gives you much more cloak than you usually would, it far exceeds the usefulness of any other stealth modules. The others are nice to use but they are no way, shape or form, better than SE III. This is evidenced by the fact that 90% of people that insist on using it and for the above aforementioned reasons.

So when does the 90% of the community get the chance to use another stealth module for once? Everyone is running like a chicken with it's head cut off with the classic Energy Transfer/Stealth Enhance III/[Power Module here] so in order to meet their pace then it's another reason on top of everything else to use SE III.

Here are the new options;

1) Reduce baseline cloak drain (when not using SE III) - making SE an option, rather than a necessity.

People will then think "Cloak is not as punishing as it once was without SE III, so perhaps I can use another stealth enhance without losing too many of it's advantages, and not to be too much of a disadvantage against those that would still continue to use SE III".

2) Reduce cloak drain when using SE III from 50% to ?

Making SE III less effective will allow players to use something else other than SE III all the time?

3) Give everyone SE III by default, freeing up other stealth modules since 90% of people use SE III anyway, so what difference does another 10% make if the whole 100% then could have wider variety of stealth modules?

This would add more depth and variety.. how many time have you ever seen someone higher than level 20 kill you that wasn't using SE?

4) Give everyone the choice of TWO stealth modules, this is fairer as some people don't like to use stealth and may feel they are put at a disadvantage if "forced" with Option 3.

5) Implement better anti-cloak measure as the current one's are borderline useless. I will explain why;

a) NanoVision doesn't work in MP, you cannot see people any easier with it than you couldn't with the naked eye.
b) Cloak Tracer only works if someone goes into stealth close by, it would be more useful if we could see people in stealth perhaps regardless of whether they cloaked nearby or not?
c) Tracker (shows footsteps) - Tracker should be able to see footsteps of cloaked players? Since everyone is in cloak all game because of SE III this module is redundant.
d) Covert Ops - May be redundant. I'm not sure but I think footsteps are silent when it cloak, this makes this anti-cloak measure pointless as well. Also cloak protects you from being seen by Ceth Gunship.

It may also be a good idea to buff Armor to promote players to run around in Armor rather than stealth, think this is a good idea?

6) Do Nothing - Some people would prefer 90% of the community to use SE III and not to use any other stealth module. If you are not interested in changing this or implementing any of the above options then choose this.

If someone has other great options then please share and I will add them also.

Btw, I have personally chosen Option 4 and 5.

definately 5 ^^

How about a #7) just play classic mode because it doesn't use the nanosuit.

1 and 5. Because it is a little ridiculous how little you can stay in cloak with out SE lll. Still mostly favor 5

Ok Good

I agree with people's choices's so a far lol

So what would Crytek need to do in order o make Option 5 more viable? I've proposed a few but more opinions would be great.

I'm one of those ten percent, make cloak like the first game
Ceph gunship!

I'm one of those ten percent, make cloak like the first game
Ceph gunship!

Who was it then? Can you explain in details as I played C2 in beta and demo and I cannot remember it being any different.

It doesn't bother me, if they choose Stealth Enhance they lose Blind Spot so I'll call in my radar and hunt them down.
Personally I'd prefer to know I'm off the radar as they can be called in within seconds of a match starting using level 2 Retriever.

5) Implement better anti-cloak measure as the current one's are borderline useless. I will explain why;

a) NanoVision doesn't work in MP, you cannot see people any easier with it than you couldn't with the naked eye.
b) Cloak Tracer only works if someone goes into stealth close by, it would be more useful if we could see people in stealth perhaps regardless of whether they cloaked nearby or not?
c) Tracker (shows footsteps) - Tracker should be able to see footsteps of cloaked players? Since everyone is in cloak all game because of SE III this module is redundant.
d) Covert Ops - May be redundant. I'm not sure but I think footsteps are silent when it cloak, this makes this anti-cloak measure pointless as well. Also cloak protects you from being seen by Ceth Gunship.
.

A) NanoVision need a range boost... that's it. 40 meters should do it. Now for you console players you did not know that we PCers ABUSED Nanovison when it had unlimited range. We can't have though but the range it is now it too short. Also, a Nanovison should be clearer and a cloaked person should be darkish blue but the range is the real problem. (this would boost Blind spots usefulness greatly.)

B) Its Ok but if level 2 and 3 would just make a slight outline (or sparkles) around the cloaked player when ever they are in range I think this would work better than what we have now. The range on it is fine.

C) Tracker should show footprints of a stealth person but there should be a Delay (two seconds?) from step to when it shows up. That way you can't just see the steps and fire where they end.

D)Covert Ops should make it easy to hear cloaked players incoming by there foot fall. Also its not redundant because it allows you to save energy that you would of used for stealth.

I fail to understand how aim assist and hit registration has anything to do my thread i.e. wanting more variety of stealth modules by implementing one of the four options I have recently proposed.

Please make a new thread about aim assist and hit detection, if you see it as a problem, which I don't. I don't want this thread to become off-topic.

Kazakage I'm not trying to bring the aim assist and hit registration into this discussion to try and hijack your thread but I'm doing it for the fact that it plays a major role in majority of module selections whether you want to believe or not. It just comes along with the territory because players learn and adapt to use the most effective playstyles for the player's current weakness/strengths. As I was stating in the prior thread, this game does not reward precision aiming enough. Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Do you feel those 90% of players who use SE III have precise aiming? Do you think they can consistently lead/anticipate a moving target on an 3-d plane to accurately put a steady stream of bullets into a target's chest quickly as they do now? Do you think 90% of players do it just because it's fun? I know my answer to all three of the questions would be a big NO. The reason why a majority of players use SEIII is to get a jump on other players because they don't have the most precise aiming proficiency along with the quick death hit detection without any sort of delicate player input.

Now if this game put more emphasis on leading/anticipating targets like it did in 2nd demo, a MAJOR percentage of balancing to the modules would be crossed off the plate then and there without changing any baseline suit and module functions. This game doesn't need more armor or cloak. It need to put more emphasis on player input concerning aiming more than anything else. Giving players SEIII as a new baseline will only tip the balance further in cloaks favor right now with this current hit detection.

I bet if the hit detection was changed back to the 2nd demo, only the players with precise aiming would excel consistently as they do now using the SEIII module. I don't want to neuter SE III module one bit but I don't want it to be as effective as it is right now because of non-chalant aiming system.
In order for it to not as efficiently as it does along with getting players to use different stealth modules, they need to change the aim assist in this game. If you had to pick an option in the poll, I would only pick 5a & 5b along with the better hit detection system where human error played a more significant role in the shooting mechanics which the 2nd demo had.

eliminate proximity alarm and covert ops and make it the SE II & III upgrade instead of Faster transition and the 50% reduction in energy consumption.

SE base is no shadow in stealth

SE II is proximity alarm

SE III is covert ops

The games mods aren't as balanced as the should be. Most mods seem like they were split up more because of the bullet point on the box of "32 unique upgrades" and not because of balance

I think that if people could have two modules it would be the same problem but worse. Leave it how it is and slightly upgrade the other modules.

eliminate proximity alarm and covert ops and make it the SE II & III upgrade instead of Faster transition and the 50% reduction in energy consumption.

SE base is no shadow in stealth

SE II is proximity alarm

SE III is covert ops

The games mods aren't as balanced as the should be. Most mods seem like they were split up more because of the bullet point on the box of "32 unique upgrades" and not because of balance

Well Proximity Alarm cancels the sound of footsteps out because of the sound it makes so this wouldn't work.

I think that if people could have two modules it would be the same problem but worse. Leave it how it is and slightly upgrade the other modules.

What modules would you upgrade to combat SE III users?

I think that if people could have two modules it would be the same problem but worse. Leave it how it is and slightly upgrade the other modules.

What modules would you upgrade to combat SE III users?
Proximity Alarm-change the freaking sound so that it doesn't get lost in the background noise and at least give you the direction the enemy is coming from, since most of the time footsteps are pretty indistinct.
Cloak Tracer-Have it outline cloaked players within its range in their team color instead of the indistinct sparkles that it currently has.
Tracker-show cloaked players' footsteps on a delay and possibly in a different color as a heads up that you'll be facing a cloaked player, just to avoid complaints about getting killed by a person with a stealth Feline.

I fail to understand how aim assist and hit registration has anything to do my thread i.e. wanting more variety of stealth modules by implementing one of the four options I have recently proposed.

Please make a new thread about aim assist and hit detection, if you see it as a problem, which I don't. I don't want this thread to become off-topic.

Kazakage I'm not trying to bring the aim assist and hit registration into this discussion to try and hijack your thread but I'm doing it for the fact that it plays a major role in majority of module selections whether you want to believe or not. It just comes along with the territory because players learn and adapt to use the most effective playstyles for the player's current weakness/strengths. As I was stating in the prior thread, this game does not reward precision aiming enough. Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Do you feel those 90% of players who use SE III have precise aiming? Do you think they can consistently lead/anticipate a moving target on an 3-d plane to accurately put a steady stream of bullets into a target's chest quickly as they do now? Do you think 90% of players do it just because it's fun? I know my answer to all three of the questions would be a big NO. The reason why a majority of players use SEIII is to get a jump on other players because they don't have the most precise aiming proficiency along with the quick death hit detection without any sort of delicate player input.

Now if this game put more emphasis on leading/anticipating targets like it did in 2nd demo, a MAJOR percentage of balancing to the modules would be crossed off the plate then and there without changing any baseline suit and module functions. This game doesn't need more armor or cloak. It need to put more emphasis on player input concerning aiming more than anything else. Giving players SEIII as a new baseline will only tip the balance further in cloaks favor right now with this current hit detection.

I bet if the hit detection was changed back to the 2nd demo, only the players with precise aiming would excel consistently as they do now using the SEIII module. I don't want to neuter SE III module one bit but I don't want it to be as effective as it is right now because of non-chalant aiming system.
In order for it to not as efficiently as it does along with getting players to use different stealth modules, they need to change the aim assist in this game. If you had to pick an option in the poll, I would only pick 5a & 5b along with the better hit detection system where human error played a more significant role in the shooting mechanics which the 2nd demo had.

Very good post.

I am starting to understand your point. So what your saying if the focus was shifted from spray and pray to precision through taking your shots carefully ( by reducing aim assist which does 99% of the work) then this would slow down all the cloakers that spend all game in cloaked as make cloak less viable?

I can understand this. I use the classic Energy Transfer/SE III/Retrievera and even when I win all the time it doesn't feel rewarding. All I'm doing is running around shooting people in the back or people who are already in fights. When I meet another good player there feels like too much luck is involved, like its the person who picks people off the the quickest is the best. Not who has the best aim, who uses their abilities the wisest or who makes the best decisions.

(Copied from original thread)

I know Crytek will never do this but, this is what I feel needs to be done...

-Make footstep noises of cloaked enemies back to normal
-Keep damage increase when shot in cloak
-Cloak Tracker shows cloaked enemies with visible sparkles around them at any point, anywhere in the map (Cloak Tracker I will be only when they go in and out, II will be less sparkles, III is maximum glowing sparks)
-Give Nanovision unlimited range and show cloaked enemies as dark blue instead of a cloaked blue, make visor enhance change nanovision cost to zero
-Cloak Transition is about 2 (into cloak) seconds right now and 0.33 seconds out of cloak. Make this the standard AFTER you use SE, before it should be 2.5 seconds into cloak 0.5 out of cloak.
-Armor Mode does not reduce speed, and Armor Enhance II does something else.
-Tracker- shows footsteps of cloaked enemies
-Visor Enhance- cloaked enemies that are tagged glow red/tagged enemies have arrows above them, cloaked or not

Stealth modules should either enhance cloak or make it easier to deal with, there are no modules that make it easier to deal with that are worth using over the enhancement itself.

eliminate proximity alarm and covert ops and make it the SE II & III upgrade instead of Faster transition and the 50% reduction in energy consumption.

SE base is no shadow in stealth

SE II is proximity alarm

SE III is covert ops

The games mods aren't as balanced as the should be. Most mods seem like they were split up more because of the bullet point on the box of "32 unique upgrades" and not because of balance

Thats a really bad idea, just makes the problem worse actually, because now everybody will have proxy alarm, be completely immune to ceph gunships, and have huge advantages even more on people who dont use SE

eliminate proximity alarm and covert ops and make it the SE II & III upgrade instead of Faster transition and the 50% reduction in energy consumption.

SE base is no shadow in stealth

SE II is proximity alarm

SE III is covert ops

The games mods aren't as balanced as the should be. Most mods seem like they were split up more because of the bullet point on the box of "32 unique upgrades" and not because of balance

Thats a really bad idea, just makes the problem worse actually, because now everybody will have proxy alarm, be completely immune to ceph gunships, and have huge advantages even more on people who dont use SE

This.

Also they will have no footsteps sounds and all non-SE users will have their footsteps twice as loud lol

As you can see, people want 4 and 5.

As you can see, people want 4 and 5.

I like how the voting is going so far. 13 Votes want something other than what we have right now, while 7 want to do nothing.

I expected this as people do not want change its human nature, noticed the do nothing people never say why? Thus is why I didn't want to add the option before as people wouldn't come up with a reason, theyjust didn't want change and that's that.

It's a shame some of these changes were not implemented before game release because we wouldn't know any different and there would be more depth and diversity and all the stealth modules they made wouldn't be wasted.But Alas! We love to stick with what we know!

4

I'm one of those ten percent, make cloak like the first game
Ceph gunship!

Who was it then? Can you explain in details as I played C2 in beta and demo and I cannot remember it being any different.

The first game not demo can't you read...

Very good post.

I am starting to understand your point. So what your saying if the focus was shifted from spray and pray to precision through taking your shots carefully ( by reducing aim assist which does 99% of the work) then this would slow down all the cloakers that spend all game in cloaked as make cloak less viable?

I can understand this. I use the classic Energy Transfer/SE III/Retrievera and even when I win all the time it doesn't feel rewarding. All I'm doing is running around shooting people in the back or people who are already in fights. When I meet another good player there feels like too much luck is involved, like its the person who picks people off the the quickest is the best. Not who has the best aim, who uses their abilities the wisest or who makes the best decisions.

Nailed it perfectly Kaza. Couldn't have said it any better.