[Heather Stewart]

Gabe thinks alpha protocol is an awesome game! which just about sums up his taste in games.

I enjoyed alpha protocol as well, definitely could have been a hell of alot better and i mean alot better gameplay wise but i enjoyed the game

[Robert]

I never played alpha protocol... In fact I never heard of it until the announcement of fallout:NV. Kind of looks like a Cyphon filter / metal gear solid knock off.

[City Swagga]

I never played alpha protocol... In fact I never heard of it until the announcement of fallout:NV. Kind of looks like a Cyphon filter / metal gear solid knock off.

Some people called it Mass Effect with spies :facepalm:

(Do they really dare to compare with Mass Effect?)

[Code Affinity]

a good story does not equal a good game. alpha protocol was a total disaster. that's obsidian at there best! all they ever do is put out half finished games! without using bethesdas fallout, obsidians NV would have been another low budget disaster.

[Stephy Beck]

a good story does not equal a good game. alpha protocol was a total disaster. that's obsidian at there best! all they ever do is put out half finished games! without using bethesdas fallout, obsidians NV would have been another low budget disaster.

I thought they did a good job with Knights of the Old Republic 2... They aren't THAT bad. Maybe making their own games isn't their knack maybe they should stick with making sequels for other hit games... Like they did with fallout NV and KOTOR2. But I really can't say they are bad at making their own games, I haven't played alpha protocol I usually like to judge things for myself than go off of reviews and other people's opinions.

[Breautiful]

I thought they did a good job with Knights of the Old Republic 2... They aren't THAT bad. Maybe making their own games isn't their knack maybe they should stick with making sequels for other hit games... Like they did with fallout NV and KOTOR2. But I really can't say they are bad at making their own games, I haven't played alpha protocol I usually like to judge things for myself than go off of reviews and other people's opinions.

I would play it man, I personally was iffy on it when i read how "horrible" it was in review, but i went and rented a copy and really enjoyed noticed the bugs and all but still enjoyed the game, now its in my collection, to me i havent played an obsidian game i havent enjoyed yet, same with bethesda. But that is totally just personal preference and my enjoyment.

[Deon Knight]

Skills dumbed down.
SPECIAL dumbed down.
17 sidequests, most was "shoot stuff!"
Ridiculous dialogue with good and evil choices.
Quests with "save baby or eat it in front of it's mother" solutions.
Overall the game had too much damn action, too much enemies and dungeons and loot and *cue Michael Bay stuff for about 700+ hours*.
There was too much emphasis on "killing stuff" than there were on actual "role-playing".

So why was FO3 a horrible RPG?
Because the emphasis was not on character specialization nor on dialogue or quests with choices that mattered.
It focused too much on shooting people with cool mode VATS than it did with actual roleplaying, and the choices it "did" give us were so limited and ended up being black and white anyway.

So sorry, but my standard for a good RPG lies higher than being able to pick good and evil choices while grinding up a super character while running through instances.

I agree, what's even more bull is that if you help the Enclave, there still your enemies! I liked NV more, better everything. FO3 was flawed but i really liked the horror scary Post Apocalyptic.. Going thorough abandoned subways scouring deserted buildings. The only thing i did not like about NV was how small the wasteland was.

[Colton Idonthavealastna]

a good story does not equal a good game. alpha protocol was a total disaster. that's obsidian at there best! all they ever do is put out half finished games! without using bethesdas fallout, obsidians NV would have been another low budget disaster.

The only thing that Bethesda did it was the bugtesting (and still we have bugs) and used the Gamebryo engine
A good story does not equal a good game? what it does then? gameplay?,music?VA?Graphics?

IMO AP was a good game, Reviews arent the Gospel you know

[Hazel Sian ogden]

Gabe thinks alpha protocol is an awesome game! which just about sums up his taste in games.

And people call us elitists? Oh the irony.

¨It's pathetic and i have seen you "bash" fo3 on numerous occasions for no reason and you gladly do it when ever you can it's fine you have your opinion just you repeat it like someone with a gagging reflex .

Don't be pointing the blaming finger and making a hyperbole out of it buddy. I've seen even worse examples on your side too(westoftherockies anyone?).
Gabe at least has the guts to admit FO3 was a good game overall and(like us) still sees a room for an improvement. :wink_smile:

[Patrick Gordon]

Gabe at least has the guts to admit FO3 was a good game overall and(like us) still sees a room for an improvement. :wink_smile:

Hm?
Oh, yeah, Fallout 4 will definitely not be what my expectations are but hell, as long as Bethesda has got some better writers or forced their current writers to take a couple of classes then FO4 can only be an improvement, mechanics wise, gameworld wise, and if their writers are better; writing wise.
Only thing I'm sketchy about is balance and lore, but Bethesda should have had enough time to learn the Fallout lore by now and heard our complaints about FO3's lore problems.
And the balance... I'll just have to get a computer and mod it I guess.

And I actually miss roaming FO3's wasteland just brutishly killing everything in sight.
It's not what I want from a Fallout game but FO3 was fun in it's own cheesy cliché way.
But 800+ hours was far too much, I can't even stand to take 3 steps in FO3's gameworld before being disgusted with how much I already know about it.
I know every locations and what loot and enemies are there, no more surprises, only more repetition.
So I kinda miss FO3's zen-murdermurdermurderexploreexploreexplore but cannot play it due to having overplayed it severely.

Anyway, so when I "bash" on FO3 it's about the 'Fallout' mechanics, lore, writing, canon, balance.
It's not about bashing on the entire game, but for me FO3 was the most horrible Fallout game I've ever played. (Haven't played the Burned Game.)
Don't mistake that as "the most horrible game I've ever played", it's just a horrible Fallout title for me.
But as I said, Bethesda can't possibly do worse with FO4 as they've had a lot of additional years to think about the Fallout design and also got Obsidian to show what "they" would do with a Fallout game.

So my prediction?
Fallout 4 will have some influence of Skyrim but will also be far more of a Fallout game than FO3 was.

:facepalm: It's pathetic.

Guess I'll stay pathetic then. :rolleyes:

Gabe thinks alpha protocol is an awesome game! which just about sums up his taste in games.

Oh thank you, I knew my taste in games was awesome.
My game library is only filled with the best of the best games

[Tasha Clifford]

without using bethesdas fallout, obsidians NV would have been another low budget disaster.

I'd actually preferred that, low budget and a disater according to your tastes in games.
And even if you dislike Obsidian games, you gotta give them credit for trying different things (unlike Beth who's practically making the same game every time, just with different paintjob).

[Alan Whiston]

Gabe thinks alpha protocol is an awesome game! which just about sums up his taste in games.

Oh thank you, I knew my taste in games was awesome.
My game library is only filled with the best of the best games

Brilliance there little fish.

In all fairness, AP was actually quite fun to play and its skill minigames were a million times better than F3s. Infact, the whole skill system was pretty good. Hell, pretty much all the mechanics were, they just werent all put together so well

Edit:
Think ive gotta agree with undecaf there as well.

[Nice one]

without using bethesdas fallout, obsidians NV would have been another low budget disaster.

Or maybe an isometric RPG made for the people who like them?

[tegan fiamengo]

BTW,I see a bit of hipocrisy, in you post, you call Fallout 3 the true Fallout game, and you think that original devs didnt get the what they want to obtain about Fallout, but you think that Bethesda did it, among others things,
You arent in position of calling us bashers, since that you praise FO3 as not the best, thats subjetive, but the "true" Fallout 3.

And people say that they cannot say nothing bad against NV, but looks like that we cannot do the same thing when it comes to Fallout 3

Quoting what I didn't say in my post ... naughty.

On top of that you seem to put words into my mouth ... tut-tut.

And distort ... sigh.

Your question on Obsidian, I don't think they would have delivered a game anything as good as we have now.

Welcome to the forum hidden_away, yes we have all met these so-called Fallout 1 and 2 fans, nothing wrong with being fans, but I find they do tend (to put it mildly) to come out with such a lot of guff with lack of logic and misinterpretation of such as Fallout 3 that is just untrue.



Do we really need to get along with them, I've tried to have a sensible discussion with them and I've had this seriously argued to me. "Fallout3 is just Oblivion with guns" ... and other such complete nonsense ...

I tend to no longer discuss with them.

I've never seen an NV basher on the scale of an FO3 basher such as those old Fallouts fans, an NV critic yes giving valid preferences, but an FO3 basher stating similar nonsense to the above, there is no comparison, and I've never seen postings implying hatred against Obsidian, they may not be as good at producing Fallouts such as what we have at present, but there's no hatred on the scale of what the old F1 and 2 fans come out with, not that I've seen.

Do you want to not get along with us?

Ah, something I can reply to ..

I am here to give facts, opinions, and to help players asking questions, simple as that, if members can't get along with the facts, it's not really my fault, I can't change the facts.

[Emmie Cate]

Everything one side says about the other is true on both sides. I've seen a lot of claims that *person* bashes *game* "for no reason", there is always a reason.

Yes, it's called preference.

Turn-play board-game fans bash the real-time all-RPG Fallout 3 for not being board-game turn-play combat

...the RPG Fallout 3 fans bash the TP-BG fans for bashing F3's full role-play.

[Jennifer May]

If members can't get along with the facts, it's not really my fault, I can't change the facts.

I don't want us to start this whole thing again but would you mind giving 5 facts that us others disagree with?

[edit]
"Turn-play board-game fans bash the real-time all-RPG Fallout 3 for not being board-game turn-play combat
...the RPG Fallout 3 fans bash the TP-BG fans for bashing F3's full role-play."
- Sitruc

Fo1/2/NV/maybe T all had choices which meant something with important SPECIAL that truly defined your character and with lots of skills that were far better balanced all to create a good role playing experience.

FO3 had no balance, SPECIAL was crap, combat was biased towards the player, you could max all skills and get all the important perks with one character, and the choices in the game where mostly black and white with no real consequences.

Or was there something I missed about FO3?

[tannis]

I don't want us to start this whole thing again but would you mind giving 5 facts that us others disagree with?

Hm?
Oh, yeah, Fallout 4 will definitely not be what my expectations are but hell, as long as Bethesda has got some better writers or forced their current writers to take a couple of classes then FO4 can only be an improvement, mechanics wise, gameworld wise, and if their writers are better; writing wise.
Only thing I'm sketchy about is balance and lore, but Bethesda should have had enough time to learn the Fallout lore by now and heard our complaints about FO3's lore problems.
And the balance... I'll just have to get a computer and mod it I guess.

Aw come off it, laughs, the writing of Fallout 3 game was very good, especially the quests and unnamed quests, the overall game balances was very good considering that it was open-play where balances could be, if so inclined, overplayed. No, the writing of the game-play spreads taking into account the different plays that could be chosen, was very well done, quite apart from the excellent side quests, named and unnamed. I kind of find it amusing that posters on the forum criticize Fallout 3's writing.

And I actually miss roaming FO3's wasteland just brutishly killing everything in sight.
It's not what I want from a Fallout game but FO3 was fun in it's own cheesy cliché way.
But 800+ hours was far too much, I can't even stand to take 3 steps in FO3's gameworld before being disgusted with how much I already know about it.
I know every locations and what loot and enemies are there, no more surprises, only more repetition.
So I kinda miss FO3's zen-murdermurdermurderexploreexploreexplore but cannot play it due to having overplayed it severely.

Much the same balance as the early Fallouts 1 and 2 but there was much less of everything. It was rarely that you were not trying to kill something in those early Fallouts. You want more than that, Fallout 3 has stacks of excellent role-play in the game ... if you choose to do it. Even the combat in Fallout 3 is better role-played than the board-game combat of the early Fallouts 1 and 2. To complain of Fallout 3 when accepting the board-game combat of the early Fallouts is laughable.

Anyway, so when I "bash" on FO3 it's about the 'Fallout' mechanics, lore, writing, canon, balance.
It's not about bashing on the entire game, but for me FO3 was the most horrible Fallout game I've ever played. (Haven't played the Burned Game.)
Don't mistake that as "the most horrible game I've ever played", it's just a horrible Fallout title for me.
But as I said, Bethesda can't possibly do worse with FO4 as they've had a lot of additional years to think about the Fallout design and also got Obsidian to show what "they" would do with a Fallout game.

Mechanics, yes we have dropped board-game mechanics and moved to all RPG game-play.
Lore is one of those phantom things that players like to complain of.
Writing, I've done that, it's great, see above.
Canon, "general principle", Fallout 3 canon is correct.
Balance, yes that is very good, I've always been impressed as I've gone through the game.

Yes, Obsidian showed what "they" would do with a Fallout game ... they would drop the board-game combat (praises), Hoover-up the wasteland into a spick-and-span empty carpet, and have plenty of factions to join, kind of like Morrowind did.

Reckon that should cover it, laughs.

[yermom]

Aw come off it, laughs, the writing of Fallout 3 game was very good, especially the quests and unnamed quests, the overall game balances was very good considering that it was open-play where balances could be, if so inclined, overplayed. No, the writing of the game-play spreads taking into account the different plays that could be chosen, was very well done, quite apart from the excellent side quests, named and unnamed. I kind of find it amusing that posters on the forum criticize Fallout 3's writing.

You mean how it gave you the different plays of joining the brotherhood and joining the brotherhood?
FO3's main quest effectively forced you into playing a good character.

Much the same balance as the early Fallouts 1 and 2 but there was much less of everything. It was rarely that you were not trying to kill something in those early Fallouts. You want more than that, Fallout 3 has stacks of excellent role-play in the game ... if you choose to do it. Even the combat in Fallout 3 is better role-played than the board-game combat of the early Fallouts 1 and 2. To complain of Fallout 3 when accepting the board-game combat of the early Fallouts is laughable.

Questions of Taste can never be "facts".

Yes, Obsidian showed what "they" would do with a Fallout game ... they would drop the board-game combat (praises), Hoover-up the wasteland into a spick-and-span empty carpet, and have plenty of factions to join, kind of like Morrowind did.

Reckon that should cover it, laughs.

Actually, you can't say that Obsidian would have dropped the Board game combat. True RPG mechanics was not an option open to them, they were told "You're using the Fo3 Engine, but you can make some tweaks if you like".

[Vicki Blondie]

Fallout 3 canon is correct.

Oh wow, thats an... interesting perspective. Not strictly accurate, but interesting nonetheless.

[Isaiah Burdeau]

Much like how his definition of "role-playing" is indistinguishable from every FPS ever made Sitruc doesn't really understand what canon means.

Frankly trying to have a rational discussion with him is not productive even if you have the willpower to slog through his unique syntax.

[Avril Churchill]

Much like how his definition of "role-playing" is indistinguishable from every FPS ever made

That's what i was thinking as well.

[Trent Theriot]

Actually, you can't say that Obsidian would have dropped the Board game combat. True RPG mechanics was not an option open to them, they were told "You're using the Fo3 Engine, but you can make some tweaks if you like".

Which is something that I am extremely glad about. If FO3 had been released as the FPS/RPG blend that it is and then NV had come out and Obsidian had gone with the old top down, turn based system then I for one would have felt it was a massive step backwards. Don't get me wrong. I love the tabletop boardgame aproach, and that is why I found the rules for the Fallout PnP RPG and regularly play that. That's right, I play the tabletop style Fallout... On the tabletop.

[Yvonne Gruening]

That's what i was thinking as well.

Oh he's quite literally said as much.

Am I role-playing Gordon Freeman in Half-Life? You ask. ...... Yes that is the role-play (that was his name, right?).

Says it all really. :shrug:

[Catherine N]

the writing in F1 and 2 was flawless. :whisper:
oh.. thats right.. it wasnt.
gameplay. i can get older fans feeling like their favorite punk rockers sold out to play the vans warped tour on that aspect. but thats about it.

[kelly thomson]

Neither game is pristine, just Fallout 3 is a lot farther away then 1, 2/NV, in my honest opinion.