Yes, I see the obvious allusions to the Serpent, but could you please translate that for those of us less intelligent?

Aren't you cute? I know what you asked and I answered.

The Hidden Heaven is the source of the Other and everything that is contradiction, doubt, and second-guessing. The death of Self, the failure of I. Again, from the Sheogorath topics, it's schizophrenia.

"He knows my bargain with the king of leapers, I'd better hide under my mountain!" but he thought and said all this too fast and, without thinking, hid under his mountain even though its base had already been eaten and so it wasn't all still there. (This is how the Greedy Man became trapped both in and outside of kalpas.)

By chance, Nerevar met the Void Ghost first, who told him that he was in the wrong place to which the Hortator said, 'Me or you?' and the Void Ghost said both.

'Stupid stone,' Vivec said. 'To hide in the Scaled Blanket is to make a mark on nothing. His bargains are only for ruling kings!'

'Because a ruling king that sees in another his equivalent rules nothing.'

And then Shor walked away from his War-Wife to enter the cave that led to the [untranslatable]. He needed to take counsel with his father yet again. [He lost heart, Kyne says]

The Hidden Heaven is schizophrenia? Lie Rock is, Sheogorath, is it not? Also, could we please stick to straight talk instead of answering riddles with riddles? When I'm in the mood for vagary battles, I'll hop onto the Socrates forums.

-The source of the Other What? Why even capitalize 'other'?
-everything that is contradiction, doubt, and second-guessing How very poetic. Is there a point?
-The death of Self, the failure of I It's far easier to say, "Loss of personal identity." Of course that doesn't sound as cool, riiiiiight?


What has that got to do with a discussion of the Serpent; unless the Greedy Man is Sheogorath? Forgive me for being such a lore-tard, not nearly as learned as you, but Nord terminology, like that of Yokuda, only makes sense to me in discussions of Nordic and Yokudan lore. In this sense, how would Greedy Man be distinguishable from the Mnemoli?


I've wondered about what Void Ghost is a reference to. It brings this to mind:

Allessia appeared to the Knights of Hrol as a ghost with a void heart. A reference to Shor?

That's not true, and I can argue that all day. Furthermore, it doesn't relate to the necessary quotation above about Scaled Blanket.


Shor, Son of Shor again, eh? I hate that damned story. I've said it so many times already, but why not once more:

How does that at all relate to Un-Stars, Sheogorath, or the Serpent? He takes counsel with Shor, right. Cue the infinite, TES mantling, Godhead association game where everyone is everyone and anything can be proved logically because "A Dragon Break makes it work!"

Yes, it is http://www.imperial-library.info/content/etada-eight-aedra-eat-dreamer; and the Hidden Heaven is the Scaled Blanket, and the Scaled Blanket is Serpent.

You never asked about unstars. This was your question:
what makes Hidden Heaven the Serpent?

To which I replied with a source. No philosophy, no mystery:
With this nature I am invited into the Hidden Heaven!'

By which he meant the Scaled Blanket, made of not-stars, whose number is thirteen.

Well I thought the discussion had already set into stone that Un-Stars were, beyond a doubt, referencing the Serpent. I was merely asking for a somewhat simplified explanation of "Hidden Heaven" as that term is only used (as far as I know) in Sermon 33. Every time I read extended, broken up works in TES games (or outside the games on TIL), I miss terms and concepts. It took me a dozen or so readings of the Camoran Commentaries to understand them well enough, and I doubt I'll ever fully grasp Aldudagga. Excuse me for not immediately being able to extrapolate MK's lore puzzles.

Also, as much as I've read about Akatosh being insane, I've yet to fully understand what that means. Schizophrenia, though I don't think would apply to a god of all things. It's not like gods dopamine or anything. He definitely has a schismatic mind, but it's hard to imagine a time god, much less the time god, from which all temporal order originated being insane. I'd buy a "most of the time sane with exceptions" explanation, or even a theory that states that Akatosh created time, split in two, went nuts, and no longer has control of time but is merely a gibbering half-consciousness in the Aether, Shezzar retaining the sanity but not the body.

It may seem like an overly holistic observation, but how could there not be a link between Aka's insanity and Sheogorath's existance.

As Jygallag states, he is now free to roam the waters of Oblivion once again.

If my memory serves me correctly, stars are holes into Aetherius. A hole into Oblivion would represent an existential paradox, (although not so much after the Oblivion Crisis... possibly? I don't know.) An Un-Star, could be a hole into Oblivion, a hole into Sheogorath, the Sithis-Shaped-Hole, which was opened when Lorkhan's heart was plucked out. I know there's already extensive lore on the Serpent in every culture, but I'm just grasping for limbs here, trying to connect Aka's Divine Madness and Sheogorath's existence. An Un-Star could be defined in two ways as well:

1. The opposite of a star.
2. A star-like object/aperture that isn't, in fact a star.

Back to Jygallag, I find it odd that he would say he wanders the waters of Oblivion, just as the Serpent wanders the night sky. He would, in fact, not have his own realm but constantly live in the reflection of another self, ruling in his stead in a false realm.

Just some thoughts; stream of consciousness I suppose.