Natural Motion's Euphoria engine has been amazing for games like GTA 4 and Red Dead Redemption. How would you feel about Bethesda using this engine in the next ES game?

In my opinion, it would definitely add another dimension to the gameplay as all the NPCs would react realistically to attacks and the environment. It would be complicated, because in GTA 4 and RDR the main weapons were guns, but with ESV the main weapon would be melee attacks as well as magic. But I'm not sure how the Euphoria engine would work with melee as the primary means of attack. I wouldn't want the enemies to get knocked over after every attack, they would definitely have to tweak it so the enemies are stronger and more resistant to being knocked over. But I imagine that it would be very cool to hit someone with your sword and have them stumble back into something tripping them. Also arrows would be much more realistic as in Oblivion getting shot with an arrow barely knocked you back, but with this you could shoot their different body parts to create a limp or drop their weapon and have to fight with their off hand.

Anyway, would you be interested in using the Euphoria engine if Bethesda was able to implement it in such a way as to not make it overpowered?

I'd definitely be for it as it could increase the range of possible animations drastically... and lets be honest, Beth isn't really that great on making animations, so a engine that can take a large workload off that would only be even more use.

Anything is better than Oblivion and Fallout 3's stiff corpses that take the exact same shape as their wireframes.

Ugh, I got really tired of goblins looking all alike while dead.

Well, melee worked fine in GTA IV, why wouldn't it in an RPG?

What I'm thinking is that it would add another dimension to fighting as you could use your environment against your opponent. For example, if you are fighting on a bridge, instead of knocking your enemy off the bridge and him just running back around to fight you, Euphoria would make his fall realistic, flailing as he falls then hitting the ground and probably being incapacitated. But maybe if he's not dead he will get up and try to crawl to a safe area.

Also drinking would be a lot more fun in this game. Everybody loves getting drunk in GTA 4 and RDR, so it would be hilarious to stumble around the tavern bumping into things or seeing other bar patrons staggering around.

Well are you talking about melee as in when you are fist fighting someone where they are fighting you back? Because in that case, it's not much different than Oblivion, because the hits just trigger an animation and Euphoria only sets in when you knock them out. Because if this was the case then it would be alright, but it would be awesome if the game was set up so all the interactions were Euphoria based, so if I hit the enemy everytime he will react differently, where as in both GTA 4 and Oblivion, and attack would just trigger an animation to knock them back.

I think there already is one of these "Havok vs. Euphoria" threads, but I guess it got locked up or something?

Well, to be honest, I like Euphoria. Havok is good too, but I prefer Euphoria.

Euphoria would solve all their problems with Oblivion's combat system. Rather than making every single attack hit your opponent but only do minimal damage, and expect the player to accept that he has to cleave a goblin's flesh 50 times with his sword before it dies (if the sword isn't a primary skill for his character), Euphoria could have an enemy 'block' or 'dodge' every attack that isn't the killing blow, but still reduce it's health meter. The blocks and parries would look last-second and clunky, compared to an actual block that was initiated with the right-click button (on PC), and the dodges would be near-misses, rather than real dodges. You could also have attacks bounce off of heavy armour with this system too. Only the final attack would score a hit, and kill the enemy as a result.

Weak enemies would die in one or two hits. Average enemies in five or six. And boss mobs would live up to their reputation by giving you a grueling and skilled fight, full of blocks, parries, and dodges, before you finally get that satisfaction of running them through with your blade. No more slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, slash, why aren't you dying, why aren't you dying, why aren't you dying, die, die, die, die, DIE! Much more immersive, and so long as they balance the health meters correctly, it would be really satisfying when that killing blow lands. Like you really worked for it.

I think that the addition of Euphoria would help the game a lot. It would definitely aid in the immersion. I would love to be fighting in a dungeon and see an enemy stumble over a tree root, or for a Spriggan to be knocked into her bear and knock it aside.

It would be awesome

It would certainly solve Morrowinds problem of "my sword went through your head but nothing happened" and Oblivion lacking dodging. And if they do, I'd like a "push" attack, possibly blocking and then hitting the attack button. If you had a shield you would bash them with it to push them, one weapon you would shove them with your free hand, and hand to hand you would shove them or kick them (obviously hand to hand would be the most effective). If Bethesda could do it I would start screaming with joy.

It would be difficult. If every time NPCs stagger they fall over fights can become a bit easy. In GTA 4 if you get someone to fall on the ground he's as good as dead.

I guess it could be nice for things that set NPCs flying already like one of those power attacks in Oblivion.

Yeah that was my concern as NPCs in GTA 4 and RDR often fall over if you run into them. I wouldn't mind it being like that for non-aggressive NPCs, but for enemies they should be much harder to knock down. It would be nice if Euphoria impacted every hit, but it would maybe have to be where Euphoria only kicks in when the enemy is knocked to the ground.

It would be interesting if they got rid of the health meter and instead you could kinda tell their health by physical cues. Say they are limping badly or on the ground crawling then they are basically dead. This would make combat interesting, because you don't always know how strong your enemy is.

That's what is awesome, though. During the combat, you and your enemy will react to the environment, aswell, not just the attacks. I remember in GTA all the times I'd knock a cab driver over the curb, they fall back and I would get the advantage. The same has happened to me. It is so dynamic and exciting.

If they used Mount and Blade's attack/defend system and Euphoria in conjunction, we would have a seriously awesome game on our hands.

EDIT: I was thinking about bats when I wrote that first reply.

Personally the idea sounds highly appealing. I've played GTA IV and the Euphoria engine makes melee combat so much fun. In Oblivion it's just the same old hack and slash until they die. With Euphoria, the game would be much more interesting and you would feel more like you are fighting in a realistic battle. Let's face it, a goblin shouldn't take 10 + blows to the face before falling over at least once. The Euphoria engine would just make combat so much better and so much more realistic.

I'd actually like to see NPCs trip and fall if they lose balance, would make slamming and tripping them much more realistic. A opponent tripping SHOULD be as good as a death sentence, except if they got good enough reflexes and manage to roll out of the way.

I would love that idea. make their own or incorporate something, what about having that and also having something like a dead rising element, where you can take things from the wall, have it not there anymore, and use it as a weapon, or accidentally have the roof cave in on you if you pull the wrong root or something. the only con if they figure out that, is i would have a hard time keeping up with my grades.

Indeed.

I like surprises. Bethesda, surprise me. I'll be happy with whatever. As far as gaming technology goes, there's nowhere to go but up, and any amount of up from the last Bethesda-developed game is good enough for me.

The thing I hate most about Euphoria is the fact that after a little bump you go flailing and rolling about for way too long before being able to continue what you were doing. I know its only seconds but it still gets annoying at times

I love this idea. The one thing The Elder Scrolls has always lacked is realism. The world is believable, the background lore is deep, everything makes sense. But some of the mechanics just breaks that wonder. I'm not saying everything has to super realistic down to every detail, but basic things like weapons appearing deadly, fire actually acting like fire, arrows to heads killing thin skilled enemies. Plus some semblance of balance between armours. There really should be some positive to using Leather over Galss, even if it's just mobility.

so much potential

The problem is, will Euphoria work with the monsters? Like the spiders and bears? They are way different from the Euphoria engine. I can't remember seeing the horses in Red Dead Redemption working with the Euphoria engine. They didn't react as normal as people. (Although I'm not sure if it are the horses in RDR, I could by mixing up two games.) And another thing, GTA IV and RDR weren't in first person. I don't know how it will look like when you play in first person and get knocked down.

If we descent a mountain... get ready for the fall of death!

I vote no on euphoria.

It's not that it's a bad engine, just that I think TESV would be better off to go with a more advanced engine. The limits of euphoria (as well as present engines, even with F:NV) just really limit gameplay. It desperately needs a new engine to really take that next step as a game, instead of more of the same. (Again, not that the same is bad... but we can do so much better).