i really dont know if the MWBoS is consider canon for Bethesda since it doesnt look they take in account the Tactic games.

Plus is Obsidian took another shoot for a spin-off, after what happen on NV, the MWBoS is wipe out by Cesar or hiding.

I don't think that's entirely fair or seems like far too much like trying to defend those games. Fallout 1 was the first time that the Brotherhood of Steel even made an appearance and they were barely present in Fallout 2. So what exactly do you even mean by saying that Fallout 3/Tactics seem to have broken some convention in showing different angles to the Brotherhood? We'd only seen one angle and it was their first appearance.

Oh I know you are:

While I would like to see another Obsidian FO, I don't want to hope they go MW. I would assume it would once again take place somewhere in the west, be it Seattle or New Arroyo, etc. So, I rather get some MW lore out of the way sooner than hope for later. Even though technically, I'm still hoping as far as FO 4 goes. If it isn't the MWBoS in 4, then I hope we see them in either a DLC for 4 or an Obsidian game.

Bethesda has said Tactics is canon at its highest level events, and a couple NPCs in Fo3 reference them.

Rothchild says there is a small detachment in Chicago "gone rogue, long story", and a scribe mentions the Brotherhood has been fighting super mutants for years, "first out west, then in Chicago, and now here".

The Fallout 3 official game guide also mentions part of Lyons' mission was to make contact with "The Eastern Brotherhood" and that the "Eastern Brotherhood" has assimilated super mutants into its ranks.

I think the MWBOS is the most likely candidate.

I really don't think it's Lyon's BOS, because they didn't have a giant airship, nor were they shown to have the potential for being capable of building one. Even if ten years passed, I seriously doubt they had the facility and resources to spend on building a new airship.

It is, because the MWBoS is mentioned in FO3. So, they are there. What exactly is canon from FOT, we won't know until more is revealed in another FO game.

MWBoS is referenced in Fallout 3 IIRC, and major events of Tactics are confirmed as canon by Bethesda.

I wouldn't necessarily say the MWBoS was wiped out by Caesar either. They had some power armor scraps on their armor, but that was from other BoS chapters I'm sure. They could likely take on small chapters if they throw mounds of flesh at them, but MWBoS by the end of Tactics is likely a very large military force.

Caesar mentions capturing a few scribes on his eastern border, which indicates he has run into them, but you are right in that nothing says he destroyed them.

The Brotherhood of Steel also couldn't fix a power issue with the Brotherhood of Steel until a botanist from Rivet City came and did it for them in a few days. Plus turning a single Tesla Coil into multiple, entirely operational weapons, in an equally short amount of time. Logical factors don't necessarily fit into it.

The airship is named from Arthurian Lore which Bethesda heavily steeped their version of the Brotherhood in. This is where someone says that the Brotherhood has always been that way but I don't recall it personally. Open references to acting like "Knights of Yore" and so-forth in Fallout 3.

They have a Vertibird airforce captured from the Enclave but someone will say that those Vertibirds could come from anyway.

They have an upgraded version of the T-45d (the T-60) which they were shown to use exclusively in Fallout 3 but someone will say that a few Brotherhood used it in New Vegas so that doesn't mean anything either.

I'm going to have to disagree with Arthur Maxson being the leader. Even if FO4 takes place ten years after FO3, he'd only be 20 years old. We know from FONV that 16 is when BOS members choose their path (Scribe or Knight), and so he'd only have been in service for about four years.

The only way I can see this playing out is if Maxson is merely just a figure head leader, and someone else is really controlling the Brotherhood. I pushed this idea out a few months ago in another "Which BOS do you think it is?" thread.

But all in all, I do agree that whatever BOS chapter appears, they will probably be at odd's with everyone, especially the Institute.

With the size of the Legion and the rate that the MWBoS is probably expanding I would be surprised if they didn't bump heads. It'd be quite the interesting fight though and I'd love a game with the two factions clashing.. eventually.

-How many did they actually capture? The Enclave numbers weren't that large so I wouldn't think the number of vertibirds would be enormous either.

-I never saw T-60 in Fallout 3, in my playthroughs the Lyons Brotherhood only used T-45d that I recall Are you sure?

She had actually been working on a portable large fusion power source for the last like 19 years.

I actually doubt the MWBoS is expanding, or ever really expanded past what we see in Tactics.
-Everything east of their territory is just the blasted remains of the American rust belt. Ashur has had 20+ years in Pittsburgh, and established a slaver/raider army, whose network goes over 300 miles, which would put his reach as far as Cincinnati, right next to the MWBoS territory had they expanded east of Illinois, but he never mentions them, so its unlikely they have moved any significant distance east.
-Similarly, as we know from NV, everything in Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico was nothing but spear chucking tribals. Given the ease in which Caesar conquered Colorado, despite the fact that Vault 0, the MwBoS's main base, is located there, suggests the MwBoS never tried to conquer any other part of it.

If they aren't going east, and they aren't going west, despite the fact both east and west have the most cities for them to expand to, it seems like they largely just stagnated in the territory they controlled in Tactics.

Where is this stated? In her dialogue she says:

Our work on portable fusion power and hydroponics are coming along quite nicely, if not quite according to schedule.

If that means that she can rapidly solve a problem that all of the Brotherhood's scribes actually working on the Prime machine haven't been able to then so be it.

I'm pretty sure they have. The Centurions have T-45d pauldrons, and the Legion is never mentioned as having come into conflict with the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood. Since the salvaged power armor suits worn by NCR Heavy Troopers have the pauldrons removed, conflicts with the Midwestern Brotherhood are the only reason I can think of as to why Centurions wear T-45d pauldrons as trophies.

I actually never had an issue with the whole "BOS couldn't fix a power issue", because the BOS doesn't care for any non-weapons tech. Even medical and manufacturing equipment is largely ignored by them.

Well, the Enclave did have some sort of base, probably a medium sized one, out in the Chicago area, so it's possible that they had a small fleet of vertibirds. The MWBOS was also interested in tech outside of weapons. And depending on how Bethesda decides what is the canon ending, they could've ended up with Vault 0... which was capable of manufacturing a large robotic army. I'm sure it could easily manufacture a fleet of vertibirds and even some large airships.

Of course, that's speculation.

And actually I'm replaying New Vegas, there are a few BOS members who are using T-45d power armor. But in the trailor, the soldiers guarding the path to Vault 111 were wearing T-60's.

The BoS always had Arthurian references or easter eggs.

Those Verts could have come from Boston, seeing how we see one in the pre war sequence.

BoS will use any PA they can get their hands on.

I just had to be someone, besides the President of the Human Elitists.

In a perfect world, this is what Fallout Tactics 2 would be for. Busting Legion skulls open with Super Sledges and Power Fists, and scalping em with Rippers.

It's possible they found a catch of power armor that was in storage. The government had soldiers in power armor across the country putting down riots and civilian uprisings.

There's really no indication how large the Chicago Outposts are. For all we know, they're nothing more than a few guys huddled around a radio.

Whoever succeeds Lyons as the new Elder, I'm more than certain that the BoS we will be seeing in 4 is CW. As for potential inter faction conflict, I put http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1541450-factions-and-storyline-spoilers together a few hours ago based on the leaked achievements.

Please provide an actually canonical source of this that is of equal status too:

Does this sound noble enough? "Quail before me, foul super mutant! Thine end is at hand! Yield, that I may ease thine suffering!"

Because I don't remember the Brotherhood of Steel mocking their leader in Fallout 1 for making them act all psuedo-knightly like they do with this in Fallout 3. Nor do I remember them lifting names directly from Aurthurian Lore for their stuff in Fallout 1 or Tactics either.


Indeed. Not an argument in-favour of it being the MWBoS but an attempt to argue that it isn't Lyon's BoS. So yeah there "could" be a fleet of Vertibirds sat around in Boston which would be the first time in any Fallout game ever. Or they could come from the Enclave. Which ever of those is true (spoiler alert, the latter) doesn't actually suggest that it is the MWBoS.


Which discounts the fact that we've only seen the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 using T-45d and it's upgraded T-60 counter part rather than the MWBoS's highly iconic model of power armour that they developed themselves and the appearance of which with Brotherhood insignia would be actual proof that it's the MWBoS? Oh yeah we ain't seen any, or even any T-51b, only T-45d power armour.

Centurion armor is built mostly out of the armor worn by the Centurion's defeated opponents. If a Centurion is wearing pieces of T-45d power armor then he killed someone who was using T-45d power armor.

I don't think the MWBoS used T-45d, at least I don't remember the armor in the game. Of course it has been a while since I played Tactics though.

Was T-45d ever in game before Fallout 3?

The Monty Python reference with the holy hand grenade sticks out most of all.

One can still hope.

Caesar mentions destroying a chapter IIRC.

The Centurions are supposed to be wearing armor from someone they "killed" though, plus, if you found stashes of PA, why not just use the full suit of PA?

Anyway, if FONV is suggesting that MWBoS uses T45d because that is what the Centurions have, then that pretty much eliminates the "well Lyons uses T45 so it gotta be them" argument.

The MwBoS only uses thier own special version of PA

Indeed. References to a Comedy that isn't actually set during King Arthur's mythological reign is totally evidence as to why the Brotherhood of Steel in-general, not just Lyon's Brotherhood, would use ancient Welsh names to name their airship.