The Midwestern Brotherhood were only seen using a set of power armor exclusive to Fallout Tactics. We don't know if that model of power armor is actually canon, either. For all we know in the actual canon they wear a combination of T-45ds and T-51bs, or just T-45ds. I doubt the MWBoS has the capability to design and manufacture their own power armor, so that's more likely.

I've just had a thought that this brotherhood could be a union of the MW and CW chapters who have joined forces.

I'm sorry, do you have concrete proof that those were acquired from the MWBoS? Because the Legion pushed past Vegas into Death Valley to fight the NCR which means that they could have just gotten them from the WCBoS.

Yep....it's looking almost certain it's Lyons and it looks like at least one story outcome leads to them getting blown up.....by us. One of the fallout toys that were made described the BoS as villains even on Bethesda's own store. I wonder if that was a mistake that slipped through the cracks from the toy manufacturer description or if that's a bit of a detail that slipped from Bethesda about Fallout 4 when they came up with the toy description.

They have Grail Squad in FOT. But I guess that a different grail, it was the Holy Enclave Grail that King Autumn sent his Enclave out to find, and not the Arthurian quest for the holy grail.

I don't recall the BoS in FO3 having a fleet of Verts either, I remember them having one, and that is only after Broken Steel. I wouldn't think it would be Enclave policy to hand over Verts and run away, when they could just get in their verts and fly away.

In FONV the Centurions are wearing T45d shoulder armor, which suggests that MWBoS wears T45d. As far as where is the iconic fancy looking MWBoS PA, ask the Enclave in FO3, or maybe that is for only the elite Paladins in MWBoS, and non elite MWBoS gets T45d.

Also, there is T51 PA in the art for FO4, so I gonna assume we will see T51 in FO4 as well.

Isn't the Legion fighting in the East, so when Legate shows up he is showing up from the East, when a vast majority of the Centurions appear during the 2nd battle?

I would also assume that most WCBoS are around Lost Hills and Maxson, and for sure the Legion has not pushed that far. Also, that is stretching the Legion ability pretty thing to suggest they are not only fighting NCR in the west but BoS also. Seems like where possible they wouldn't want to be doing that, except where necessary, like in the east.

I think it's impossible to have concrete proof at this point, all we can really do is speculate, and guess based on likelihood. When did the Legion push into Death Valley? Why would the Western Brotherhood have gotten involved? Last time I played through New Vegas the Mojave Brotherhood at least didn't act as if they had any direct confrontations with the Legion.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/T-51_power_armor.

The real King Arthur was a Celtic King in ancient Britain that predated Christianity by several centuries.

Rest of your rambling is inconsequential as always.


I remember a lot on the tarmac just sitting their fine in Broken Steel at Adams Air Force Base. It's almost like you are just dogmatically arguing against any counter-argument rather than working from an actual recollection of the games...


Doesn't answer the question obviously.

So you're allowed "maybes" to defend your point but nobody else is? Of-course. I'll just base my thoughts on the games thanks, we don't see a single suit of T45-d in Fallout Tactics and there's no actual proof that the Centurions T45-d came from the MWBoS since the Legion has pushed into California and could easily have encountered the original BoS.


I didn't say it wasn't going to be in-game. But what do we see all the Brotherhood of Steel wearing? Oh yeah T-45d.

We also know that the Legion has been fighting in California proper, within the Brotherhood of Steel's influence. It's in the [censored] game dude, the Legion fought a quite large battle in Death Valley which is past Vegas and near the NCR Capital. Who's to say that they didn't fight the Brotherhood then?

Well given that they sent an entire Chapter to the Mojave you'd be wrong wouldn't you? Centurions aren't common, they are highly senior officers that are few in number. That doesn't require much fighting against the Brotherhood of Steel.

And to provide some background to what I said earlier about the MwBoS not expanding since the end of Tactics.

At the end of Tactics, no matter which ending is chosen, we see this map of conqered territories

http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/fallout.gamepedia.com/6/67/FOT_End_D_2.png

Which includes most of the places visited in-game, as well as several places not visited in lower Wisconsin, lower Michigan, and somewhere in central Indiana. This was the MwBoS's territory at the end of 2198.

In 2255 Lyons BoS scourged The Pitt, accidentally leaving Ashur behind, which allowed him to take over. By 2277, Ashur's salver network extended as far as Ronto, which is 317 miles away(by road distance), and included towns like Erie, and D.C. Ashur also compared his city to The Commonwealth, which is 572 miles away.

If we map all of this out we get

https://i.imgur.com/Rs30wyr.png

-The MwBoS and their bunkers/outposts in the Midwest in 2198 are in blue
-The cities Ashur controls/takes slaves from are in black
-Boston, a territory he doesn't take slaves from, but compares his city to, is also marked in blue(because I forgot to change the color)

Now, all the places in grey are all places within the same distance as other cities Ashur takes slaves from. We can see that two of these places, Detroit and Cincinnati are just a stones throw from MWBoS outposts/bases known to exist in 2198.

If the MwBoS had expanded eastward at all in the last 80 years, they would have run into these cities, and become local to Ashur when he set up the Pitt years later. However, Ashur never mentions the MwBoS, or even Chicago, despite them being FAR closer to him then Boston is, indicating that the MwBoS is not likely to have expanded eastwards at all in the 80 years between when we last saw them, and by the time we visit the Pitt in Fallout 3.

I was under the impression that King Arthur Pendragon, son of Uther Pendragon, and Sir Lancelot, plus the other knights had some relation to Arthurian legend and the round table.

Then again I'm a biology major with an extremely limited knowledge of Arthurian legend..

I'm being facetious mostly. Evlbastrd will denounce any opposing argument with even a hint of speculation whilst happily using it to prop up his own arguments.

They were in Death Valley during the events that predated Lonesome Road. Why would the Brotherhood of Steel have gotten involved? Huge nuclear missile silos? Who knows. Centurions aren't common Legion soldiers, it wouldn't take much fighting with the Brotherhood of Steel. My question is why assume that it's from the MWBoS?

My point is that a joke reference has about as much reference to actual canon as the appearance of the TARDIS and Phasors in old Fallout games. Which is to say none.

Ah right, The Divide... I forgot about the Legionnaire Marked Men. I don't remember any hint of the Brotherhood ever being in the Divide during Lonesome Road, though, nor any hint that any Legionnaire save for Ulysses walked away from the Divide following the cataclysm. Did I miss something? Unless I missed something I don't see why we should assume that it's more likely that the Centurions got their trophies from the West Coast Brotherhood.

The Divide is east of death valley actually.

Nothing stated the Legion was in death valley itself IIRC, nor the BoS for that matter.

I didn't know we have seen all the BoS, nor did I know that 5 min trailers = the entire game.

FOT armor was a art style. Will it be canon? Who knows. Will it be changed so that it actually fits canon and it is t45 or 51? More than likely. We don't know. All we do know is this :"I would redo the sprite of the Power Armor to make it more retro. Not that there is anything technically wrong with the sprite, it's a great piece of art. It's just that it is a bit out of place in the Fallout Universe. But bear in mind that we had to design it over a year ago and Interplay approved everything we did." - Tony Oakden, producer of FOT

It is highly likely that whenever BGS decides to portray canon events from FOT that there WILL be some differences, and making the PA more "lore friendly" could potentially make that list. In the intro of FOT the guy is wearing T51, and there is none of that in the game, sooo who knows.

I don't think any of us care about the real King Arthur. We like the Merlin King Arthur, with stories of Excalibur and the Holy Grail and Monty Python and Lancelot and Le Morte Darthur(which contains quest for holy grail there). That is what gets us going, not some real story about some real boring dude. Snooze.

Seems like you use maybe in a lot of your arguments. Also, the BoS picks you up and flies you away, and then orbital strike hits AAFB and the Mobile Crawler. I would imagine if any Enclave alive they going to then hop in any Verts that were not destroyed and leave. OR, I guess in your opinion, they LEAVE all the verts and run away on foot, leaving Verts for BoS to come and reclaim later. Riiiiiight.

Nope. I'm just saying that it's equally plausible? Evlbastrd's favourite phrase is "who knows" so I will gladly use that same logic against him when he boldly claims that Centurions having T45-d shoulders is evidence that the Midwest uses T45-d and hence any argument that that the Brotherhood of Steel exclusively utilising that same armour in Fallout 4 is not evidence that it's Lyon's Brotherhood.

Key is that he didn't actually enter this argument with that idea in the first place, he just realised he could use it mid-way through after someone else pointed it out. Which means that it is not part of the reasoning that makes him so certain that it is not Lyon's Brotherhood of Steel in the first place.

No one can care about the "real" King Arthur because he is a 100% fictional character.

Everything about him IS fiction.

It's the CWBOS. Everyone needs to forget about the airship. Bethesda is just using things found in Tactics, not actually connecting the Tactics with FO4. They have to have a way to get the BOS to Boston and they basically borrowed this idea from Tactics. CW Super Mutants are in Boston, so....

No, didn't you know? He was a celtic dude that lived before Christianity. I prefer the fake one myself, and Merlin.

What is the "canon" ending to tactics and what what is the "canon" state of that section of Brotherhood in the end-game?

Kinda seems like Lyon's group to me. But then I have that theory of their being a major time skip at some point in the game that causes a lot of changes to the wasteland, alongside the big ending changes that fit into choices and consequences.

Oh and technically King Arthur has a little bit of truth to it in that he's most likely a real figure who got shrouded in myth after his death and now its impossible to tell what is real and what isnt. Same with a lot of the historical rulers of the Norse around the same dark ages/early medieval era. The Brotherhood using Arthurian stuff fits in thematically with their depiction across all games as them being a sort of knightly order, although some people seem to associate knights as intrinsically good figures which colours the BOS into do-gooders when even Lyon's chapter is nowhere close to factions like The Followers.

Plus the concept art of-course. But your right. We've seen T45d, T51b, T60, X-01 all of which also make an appearance in Fallout Shelter, but not seen any of the actual armour that would possibly identify them as the MWBoS up until now. But, of-course, we haven't seen everything so everything is possible as usual.


And I'm sure that Tony's words are ringing through-out the halls of Bethesda's design studios to this day.

Standard "We don't know" argument wheeled out when you have no counter argument.


I'll tell you what there wasn't in that. A lot of ancient welsh being used to name things.


Well, funnily enough, I remember killing all of the Enclave in Adams Air Force Base and after the completion of the quest there being Brotherhood of Steel soldiers milling around the place whilst the Vertibird's are still there.

But of-course, supposition is allowed when your you but nobody else.

He was the legendary king of the ancient Britons that led the fight against the Anglo-Saxon invaders yes. Both of which were, yes, pagans.


See. It's all he does.