The argument isn't that the sap from the corrupted Hist tree isn't a hallucinogen, it clearly is. Rather that this hallucinating effect isn't the normal effect of the Hist sap or the Hist.

The Hist is the tree - it's the tree's sap that is hallucinogen. And there is much more to the Hist, the tree, than what the Oblivion quest gives us.

I agree. It's also been stated that the hist are sentient, not to be considered in the same light we see mundane trees. The "corrupted" hist from the FG quest might not have been corrupted in the sense that its sap is now a hallucinogen. Maybe by corrupted they don't mean tainted, but they mean renagade. Possibly the Hist (normal Hist) is used as you have said in Blackmarsh as a right of passage, and the lickers of said sap recieve a "vision" directly from the hist. A magickal hallucinogen instead of a drug-based one. The Blackwood Hist is corrupt in the sense that it's evil, and causes dangerous hallucinations.

What about the trees giving them their humanoid forms? Crap. Religious dogmatic crap. They probably do believe this, at least the hist worshippers do. But what about argonians that live in other provinces and follow the local religions of thier province, or the nine divines? Why are they humanoid in form? See....crap. We all know why the argonians in cyrodil and the ones in MW look different, and there need not always be a lore explanation for unforseen limitations of a new graphics engine for a 3d based role playing series. The fact that Bethesda knows the lore community well enough to cover the @$$es like that, even though it's a crappy explanation and kinda' hokey, should show you guys just how bad things can be on this forum from time to time. In other words, we ALL (myself included) should get over ourselves. The point is, that just because you heard it in game, or read an in-game book about it doesn't make it true. The books in game are written in-character, and therefore biased, and sometimes misinformed. Even out-of-game collectables such as the PGE are only as good as thier source. Admittedly the 3rd edition is better than the first as far as validity, but still. Come on.

As far as everyone splitting hairs with Narrator over his terminology...

It's obvious what he meant, so why argue semantics? When people talk about the drug marijuana, they don't usually specifically say ground, de-seeded, hemp buds. They just say marijuana is a drug. It, like the hist, is so much more. It is used for rope, tanning oil, and cigarette papers to name just a few of the products that come from this plant. However, when we say smoke marijuana, everyone knows you mean the bud. I doubt very seriously you're smoking tanning oil.

Come on, people. Is it too much to ask for you guys to play nice?

Did you not read my post quoting the lore about the hist? :rolleyes:

The tree was set outside of its normal environment. You can't expect its sap to have the "normal" effect even on Argonians.

But out of curiosity, what normally happens to Argonians when they lick Hist Sap?

I'd have to look it up in Brendans Argonian compendium but it was something that decided if they'd be male or female in one book, though other books mention that they have a male and female life phase. Though that change could be instigated by licking this Hist.

Nobody gives a [censored] how many stars are in your profile. If you are right you are right, and if you are wrong you are wrong.

Most people in this forum understand that.

Yea... But you don't really call the other stuff marijuana, do you? You call it hemp. Because, as you know, even though they're basically the same thing, they have different meanings, or rather, different implications. They need different names so people know whether you're talking about the drug or the "raw material" used for all the other stuff. This sounds a lot like long-winded bureaucratic crap when you try to explain it, but yeah, it is important.
Especially as at least I did not understand whether he was talking about the sap or the trees. Or well, I did, but I was not clear on whether he knew that Hist is more than a halucinogen sap, which from the post, he doesn't seem to.


No, it isn't. So I'm gonna back out of this. And perhaps try to be cooler with things in the future.

'S alright, man. I really shouldn't be butting in like that anyway, but I just thought I'd take up for the noob. I was a noob on here once, too, and it's not a very friendly place. I know you didn't mean anything by it, I've read many of your posts and would count you in the lore-enlightened category, but I was trying to do the guy a favor by clarifying what, at least I thought, he meant. No hard feelin's right?

Besides, I've talked with Narrator before, and even though he's only played MW and OB, he does know quite a bit for someone who's so new to lore. I say let's give him a chance. Hell, I myself still make ambiguous posts from time to time. It's a forgiveable sin, in my book. LOL.

My post history isn't the best one either, I guess. And we've all been newbies, at one point. So you do have a good reason to butt in (woo! I learned a new expression! :twirl: )
Anyway. I've only played MW and OB too, except from a little Daggerfall demo-ing, so what games you played doesn't really matter to me. And I'll play nicer from now on. Sometimes.

Maybe you could all follow further the idea that Hist are sentient and ask what the Hist are not only thinking, but also what their purposes are?

The Lore says came from another plane right? So that makes them an 'advanced species' - now have you ever wondered how a bunch of trees got to Tamriel from another plane?

Maybe some of you know Giskard? - he has some wonderful ideas about Hist.

Hey dude-man - as you were suggesting that characters are biased - maybe they also make mistakes too? So maybe that Hist is about something totally different than the guys that kidnapped it and others believe?

It could be that the Hist is p***** at people - or that the soil/water is not right - it is a tree ... like feeding a man pine cones = one creature's dinner is another creature's poison etc ... but these are simplistic answers ... the truth might be far more interesting.

ps - if the Hist is p***** I would not blame it at all - kidnapping is not a nice thing - so its response would not make it corrupted to my mind - that would make it righteous anger!

Hmm, heres some unconventional thinking:
Maybe the Hist are like Goa'uld? The Hist liking ceremony is like when the Goa'uld put symbiotes in the Jaffas, and use them to learn about the other races? Not saying that they are Goa'uld, or that i condone crossovers from other things, i just think it's a good comparison to explain the thought

Heh... Can anyone really say that any advanced living thing has a purpose?
Especially when talking sentinent beings.


Where does it say so?


But does he want to share them with us? :shakehead:


While being total unbased [censored], I would prefer if the FG-storyline Hist tree was corrupted by "Civilization".
Mainly because I can't get enough of that clich?.




No!
You keep your Stargate away from my Elder Scrolls!

Lol
I wasn't interjecting them, just drawing a parallel

???? Now what would you say if someone suggested that MK has no purpose? (I have been led to believe that MK's purpose is to get drunk and scribble things either as part of being drunk or as a way of dealing with the hangovers) Or do you believe that only primitive, non-sentient things have purposes? I would have thought that every advanced, sentient living thing creates its own purposes. Did you mean to say something else?


In the Lore somewhere - I will take some time to find that, but I believe it was connected with a war between other ancient races?



Once upon a time he did want to share with people outside his own - but then someone made a mess of adapting a mod he made, neglected to beta-test the changes and and blamed Giskard for the mess - and a lot of people jumped on that bandwagon without checking the facts - a major loss to the community.

De gustibus non disputandem





I don't like 'sciencing up' Es - but you might try it at a different level - there are various ways that plants parasitise and symbiotise other plant species and animals too. Could be they have 'control' at a micro-level - so that it merely appears to be influence to those without microscopes - even a God that does not think in those terms might not understand what the Hist were doing if so. an dwe have not explored the finer nature of the Hist on so many levels.

On the surface they appear to be trees - but then they might have the properties of many different kinds of vegetation - consider mushrooms for example.

About where they come from: Well there is UESP wiki Lore currently under revision at this url: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel:Black_Marsh - all they mention is the Elnohfey Wars ... etc ...
will continue checking - might have been a fan speculation but let's see ... I guess I should refer you to putty's link above. Whether his attempt to link Hist and Tseasci makes sense there is this:



So I am happy to note that there are other sources that hold a different viwe of their origins, and even happier to find that there are others who see at least some of the Hist as wanderers - because again what I was reaching for is that there is likely more to the Hist than static thought or being planted in one place ...