Chill friend, i'm new to the whole Godhead idea, and I had no idea it was canon. Now that I know it is, well your right, it's even harder to comprehend. By the way, I feel pretty dumb for asking this but, what exactly does "metaphysical" mean?

And I understand CHIM (mostly), and that it is canon.

Sorry if I sounded angry or something. I just wanted to get my point across. And http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/metaphysics#English is Wiktionary's entry for "metaphysics". It will probably make things harder, to be honest, but I really can't explain it myself. Maybe someone else could do a better job.

As for my own perception of CHIM, I accept it as canon and accept it in TES lore. But because it is so obscurely referenced, I hardly ever need to think about it. It's like I said, anyone can go on and enjoy TES games and lore without ever thinking about it again.

It's all a dream by a mad dreamer that cannot tell that it is dreaming.

Just wanna say because I never think I did, the whole "it was all just a dream" avenue is completely missing the point. Consider your lucid dreams, if you've been lucky enough to have ever had one. Then think again before you dismiss the the idea of Divine Hypnagogia. If you get it (or care to) then mull it over until it punches the back of your eyeballs.

No wonder it's hard to retain CHIM. Such... violence.

Carry on.

So the dream never ends?

And thanks for the link!

@MK
Ack so many terms I dont know, what is hypnagogia for starters? And I've had some dreans that I thought I understood, but I thonk I'm missing your point (as I often do with your posts)

Metaphysical would be the adjective for metaphysics. Metaphysics is

1.a branch of philosophy dealing with fundamental questions about the world. Ex. Determinism Vs. Free will. Very broad and abstract. Most people don't give a [censored].

2. Supernatural stuff. godheads and monkey squattle imbalances.

@Bazz, I googled hypnagogia for you. It seems to refer to stuff relating to the onset of sleep/sleeping.

MK summed it up pretty well (or as well as we can ever get). It isn't as simple as "lol its the matrix". I don't think I'll get it for a while, I'm too young. The most of it goes right over my head.

Okay, so I looked up some definitions and I'm slightly understanding you. It's not just a dream, because it was sleep put upon us by god(s) that were easily understood. Did I completley miss your point, because I'm still confused

@Nixta Yeah I'm pretty young myself (15) so this stuff is pretty mind-boggling

@Darth R Thanks man!

Maybe, for now, you and I should just ignore it. :happy:

Your sig says different.

Just sayin'.

Heheh.

The countenance to laugh with your executioner.

To everyone saying CHIM and the Godhead are canon, based the on the fact that there are only obscure clues left, it seems like the whole idea is a philosophy instead of a confirmed concept. What some of the Dunmer believe, not what's true.

1. It is not a Dunmeri concept, it is known among a few individuals of a variety of races.
2. I don't know if you're aware, but MK is the one who came up with the concept of CHIM (at least, I'm fairly sure). He's already posted in this thread, don't you think he would have mentioned if it wasn't canon?

Ok ok. Enough playing around. Heres the scoop:

1.) MK is > or = to godhead.

2.) CHIM: you are anything and/is everything and/is everything is you.


This is my interpretation of TES universe.

I understand that for someone that knows only a little lore, the existence of CHIM would be shocking news. Especially when you're too young to grasp the concept. That is why I advised that you forget it's there if it disturbs you that much. It won't have any effect on your perception of the TES games, and the vast majority of the lore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation then anything else it can ever be. But perhaps you can follow a few lectures at the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead? They teach everything. :biggrin:

So no one in the Elder Scrolls series exists? I mean, I know they don't REALLY exist, lol. But they don't exist in the world of lore? That's what I don't like; people look into lore to add a sense of depth and realism to the game, and make it seem like a living world. Saying that no one exists in the lore and are only the dream of some psychopathic megagod doesn't add the depth and living-ness (heh) to the world that most people seek.

I could be completely wrong, however.

Watch out or you are going to zero-sum yourself. Hehe.

There is no reason you should not still submerse yourself in TES universe. This is just another way to look at things.

Remember that everybodys experience in TES is probably going to differ one way or another somewhere along the line.

It doesn't invalidate existence; it merely changes its definition.

Anyways, the Godhead and the like are present in many world religions. Our world may very well be a fragment of a dream as well.

This. That is the perfect way of putting it. Think of it like that, MJMax.

Wow, so CHIM means everything is a dream, right? Divayth Fyr, Talos, Mannimarco, all a dream? That really makes things well, different.

Edit: But CHIM seems to be really, really strange. Am I misinterpreting it?

For God's sake. Why can't people stop thinking of it like this?

First of all, CHIM is not what makes "everything a dream". CHIM is achieved when one realizes that they are a fragment of the Godhead, but retains their individuality - the ability to know this, but still say "I am me."

The concept of the Godhead isn't as simple as "TES has been the Matrix this whole time". Lady N said it perfectly - It doesn't invalidate existence, it merely changes it's definition. Read over that, and keep doing so until you understand it. Understand the difference between "existence is false" and "existence is different to what I thought it was before". The truth is the latter.

Sorry Nix, I'm not exactly a metaphysical genius *shrug*.

So CHIM is knowing you're basically a part of something else, but being able to say, "So what, I'm still who I am?"

Think of it like this, Mortals 1/∞ of everything. You are 1/(2∞) of everything. but you are still part of everything. And really are all parts of the same soul, the godhead. To realize this, or "to see the tower" is CHIM (or zero-summing.) what stops you from zero summing is that you are still I; everything is just as much a part of you as you are a part of everything.


HOW DID I MISS THIS THREAD EARLIER??? I wanted to confuse him with C0DA... jkjk

EDIT: try reading the book of http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tower. You won't grasp CHIM without grasping the tower. Looking up from below the tower is how most people see it, just a circle, but when you leave it and look at it from the side it becomes a capital 'I'